VIP
South East
Posts: 8,296
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Jun 12, 2011 17:41:19 GMT
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I like it, I like negative camber too, makes it look so low its broken!! As for air ride, my Buick has this, not for just looking good but also makes it handle too, whats wrong with that? I think Euro look cars are similar in Vein to early lowriders in that being low makes them what they are, and I bet it still drives great once thares about 60 psi in the bags, wouldnt be much higher either... Unfortunately, there's still a majority that think airbags simply function to heave a car off the floor to enable it to move. They don't understand that a correct airbag set-up can have very good handling characteristics, which is why a lot of the Pro-Touring cars use them, and Ride Tech offer specific performance suspension kits for track use which use airbags. Until they understand this, they are simply in an ignorant position to be able to criticise air-bag suspension. |
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Last Edit: Jun 12, 2011 17:42:23 GMT by VIP
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nas80
Part of things
Posts: 363
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Jun 12, 2011 21:22:20 GMT
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air bags eh - nice - handy cos you can raise the car if you come across an obsticle, and when your at a show you impress everyone cos you can make your car so low that a pack of rizla casually thrown on the road would be game over for you. but ill stick with my coilovers thanks here is mine - m50 24v power.   |
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Last Edit: Jun 12, 2011 21:24:01 GMT by nas80
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,296
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Jun 12, 2011 22:12:00 GMT
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The final line of my last post remains valid.
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will
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,023
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Jun 12, 2011 23:21:04 GMT
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nas80, that's Looe/Hanafore and looking out to Looe Island is it not? Bet the 21 was fun on the roads round that part of the world, had a great time on my bike last time I was down that way. Camber on the back of 21's and 30's for that matter is the way I'm used to seeing them when slammed. It is there fore right in my mind ;D If the OP car was mine (and I wish it was) I'd have it mainly with a touch more rake though would want to drop it now and again to emit a shower of sparks  Have a ute  |
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Jun 12, 2011 23:33:04 GMT
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air bags eh - nice - handy cos you can raise the car if you come across an obsticle, and when your at a show you impress everyone cos you can make your car so low that a pack of rizla casually thrown on the road would be game over for you. Well you know some people, always taking the easy route out. No doubt some 'bagged cars do handle a bit, but most people are only interested in getting their car on the deck and probably wouldn't know a well-set up car if an anti-roll bar smacked them in the chops. They don't understand that a correct airbag set-up can have very good handling characteristics, which is why a lot of the Pro-Touring cars use them, and Ride Tech offer specific performance suspension kits for track use which use airbags. Until they understand this, they are simply in an ignorant position to be able to criticise air-bag suspension. Don't recall seeing many bagged cars at trackdays, wonder why? Seeing as you've no doubt built several fine-handling 'bagged cars and are no doubt an expert on the subject, can you tell us why? |
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Last Edit: Jun 12, 2011 23:38:04 GMT by e21meister
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,956
Club RR Member Number: 174
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I don't think there are any performance bagged cars yet over here, as it costs a fortune. In theory they could be better than ajustable coilovers as you get much you can ajust ride height and springing weight on the go.
I don't see what the problem with airbags is. You can drop a car on the floor without having to worry about geometry changes as when you want to drive it you raise it back up. If you're at the stock ride height with the right pressure in the bags the ride and handling should be as good if not better than springs and shocks, as the standard geometry will remain.
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nas80
Part of things
Posts: 363
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agree with stealth - theres no problem with bags - apart from the costs.
id just leave Amazo to it tbh - he doesnt realise the costs involved with these setups is not cheap and the time and effort making an airbag system work with an e21. lol @ easy way out -
Will - that is Looe - won something on ebay - so drove all the way there from leeds, took pics ate ice cream drove back.. e21 loves country lanes, I have adjustable camber plates on the rear axle - so my rear camber is stock even though I'm probably at -70 mm. if I didnt have the camber plates id have the "bent rear axle" look and scary handling.
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Last Edit: Jun 13, 2011 1:20:59 GMT by nas80
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When I started planning my Sunny as a hillclimb car I looked at going for bags, totally adjustable in height and stiffness... That is a dream racing suspension, I planned to run an inboard tank, but an external compressor, basically set and go. The problem is because it is altering the suspension type from springs to bags you end up lumped in the radically altered class (sports libre) so it became a bit of a pointless exercise.
Thing is though, on a show car, who cares if it is a performance benefit!?
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Mark
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,825
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Van Diemen use are bags as part of a semi-active suspension set-up I think? I like the look of a bit of negative camber on the rear of an e21 or 2002tii. I know it's not good to have too much as it makes the onset of oversteer less progressive, but I like it for the way it looks and not the way it effects chassis dynamics. You would think that, on a forum about retro cars for retro car enthusiasts, we would be more concerned with celebrating the diversity of modified e21's than trying to force individual opinions on what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' with specific cars. It's OK not to like something without feeling the need to try and slate it in some way surely? (No, Shirley, I'm not just talking to you!  ) |
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E36 BMW 318is saloon (rare as a hens false tooth)
VW Caddy Maxi 2010 (usually full of Labradors)
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,296
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...most people are only interested in getting their car on the deck and probably wouldn't know a well-set up car if an anti-roll bar smacked them in the chops. I'll certainly agree with this point, most people [minitruckers et al don't care how their car handles, why should they?] don't use airbags for their handling characteristics, but that doesn't mean that a proper airbag set-up can't handle as well as a coilover system Don't recall seeing many bagged cars at trackdays, wonder why? Seeing as you've no doubt built several fine-handling 'bagged cars and are no doubt an expert on the subject, can you tell us why? Pro-touring - like minitrucking, lowriders and VIP cars - is not a big scene in the UK hence you not seeing evidence of such set-ups over here. If you are interested, take a look through the Pro-Touring and Lateral-G websites. You'll see plenty of cars being built with air-bag suspension. and, yes, I am building a Pro-Touring car with air-bag suspension. The system runs to about £4000, which is probably why you don't see it on every other car in the UK. At the end of the day, an air spring is just that, a spring. It has the same characteristics as a metal spring, only the spring height is adjustable. An air-bag system designed to handle uses the same adjustable shock absorbers as a coil-over system. Here's an example of the Shcokwave front strut I'm using.  The shocks are fully adjustable for bump and rebound, just like a coilover shock. Here's a video from RideTech about the Shockwave... Here's a video where they take a Chevelle at an Autocross, and switch out the stock suspension with a Shockwave system, and then compare the results... |
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Last Edit: Jun 13, 2011 9:18:44 GMT by VIP
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Colonelk
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,742
Club RR Member Number: 83
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I like the look of a bit of negative camber on the rear of an e21 or 2002tii. I know it's not good to have too much as it makes the onset of oversteer less progressive, but I like it for the way it looks and not the way it effects chassis dynamics. You would think that, on a forum about retro cars for retro car enthusiasts, we would be more concerned with celebrating the diversity of modified e21's than trying to force individual opinions on what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' with specific cars. It's OK not to like something without feeling the need to try and slate it in some way surely? (No, Shirley, I'm not just talking to you! ) THIS Also, are the rules here really that difficult to understand? Its not rocket science! If you want to have lots of pointless arguments sign up on Driftworks LOL |
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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The original E21 is very cool.
I assume the owner bagged it because he wanted it to look cool more than he wanted to cruise around public roads in a car setup for track days, smugly negotiating the morning commute wearing full harnesses knowing his rear camber is just right to feed in progressive over steer while he sits waiting for the lights to change by Sainsburys.
He has succeeded not just in concept but in execution.
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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Jun 13, 2011 17:28:39 GMT
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^^^ i don't beileve any retro car owner would purposefully set up a road car specifically so its nice to drive over pot holes and comfy to sit in at traffic lights.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,956
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Jun 13, 2011 17:37:13 GMT
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Sorry but I can smell the curse word you talk from here. Is it so hard to understand that some people aren't bothered about going fast?
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Jun 13, 2011 17:52:12 GMT
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I agree with everything vip said, but the video comparing stock 40 year old suspension to a properly built performance suspension is just ridiculous.
But you can't deny the fact that there is no cars built SOLELY for track duties, with huge budgets that race in competive classes that use air suspension. (I'd love to be proven wrong on this one)
Beacuse there is no need for the extra weight and adjustability.
But that doesn't mean that you can't make a regular car go as fast around a track on air as on springs, it just costs a bit more. But you look so much better at the show afterwards ;D
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nas80
Part of things
Posts: 363
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Sorry but I can smell the curse word you talk from here. Is it so hard to understand that some people aren't bothered about going fast? Yes? Why the hell would you drive a car that's slow? That's just stupid and borrrring. You even asked us to show you e21 that are built to be driven and we did. But are youre still stuck in the past where its low and slow. talk about being an imperialistic ludite!! |
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Yes? Why the hell would you drive a car that's slow? That's just stupid and borrrring.  Half the cars on this site are boring, and half the populace stupid then? |
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Yes? Why the hell would you drive a car that's slow? That's just stupid and borrrring. Ahhh you are either a) a troll, in which case you should probably just shut your mouth and do something less stupid, or b) on the wrong forum, try [http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/]here[/url] ... or secret option c) you are simply about going fast in which case I suggest buying a new car... they are much faster than tuned old ones and cheaper in the long run. |
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nas80
Part of things
Posts: 363
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I'm pretty sure I'm on the correct forum? there's plenty of modified classics.
Check again? I'm not a troll, think you will find that i just have an opinion. I'm sorry if that conflicts with you.
Click the link in my sig and be enlightened about how you make something boring into something that's awesome fun to drive.
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,542
Member is Online
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I announce the inaugural meeting of Slow Cars Anonymous.
Hello. My name is Seth. I drive something slow and boring.
(Perhaps I should have started another thread....)
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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)
