stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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I was looking through pics from the Supernats and the majority of UK rods now seem to be done in a nostalgia style. When I was younger people were still building rods as a cheap way to go fast (most features seemed to mention "will blow a cossie's doors off etc").
It seems to me that the hot rod scene has given up trying to move forward/compete with the faster production/modified retro/modern scene and has gone back 50 years to avoid the embarassment of not being quick enough?
I mean I could get the low flyers stuff, they were just mega cheap fun cars, but people are now spunking huge amounts of cash to build a car that is basically not very good (dynamically)
This isn't a dig btw just an observation.
Matt
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^^ Intresting observation. could be intresting to see where this thread takes us.
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,685
Club RR Member Number: 91
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I've thought much the same recently. I guess its because if you want to go fast, and go fast around corners, then there a a million cheaper and easier ways to do it (buy J turbo car, turn boost up etc.) It used to be that getting an old chassis, sticking a wopping great V8 in it and uprating the brakes and suspension would give you one of the fastest cars on the road. Now you have to spend a lot of money to make it even close to being the fastest thing on the road. I guess rods are as fast as they always were, just other stuff got faster, so rods seem to have gone backwards, but they haven't, they've just stood still except in seems of detailing and styling. Plus I think the biggest factor is the type of people that are into them, the vast majority of owners are older. In the 60/70's a cheap car to mod was something from the 40/50's, and those people are still modding those cars in that way. For todays youth its something from the 80/90's! So they have a completely different set of base cars to work with, they're often doing similar things (new engine, brakes, paint etc) but they're called something else because they look different. In terms of true rods from the 50/60's in the US, you got your old car (32 ford?) got a motor from something 5 years old and powerful (302 V8?) forced them together and if you wanted to live mebbe the brakes as well. Then strip weight, well with a rod thats 1/2 the body, which changes the look totally. Do the same recipe today - Car is mebbe 80's e30 BMW, so now go get a motor from something 5 years old and powerful, that is cheap, so I don't know a 528i, shoehorn in, (and mebbe fit the brakes if you want to live) and hey presto you have a much quicker car. Now strip weight - well thats erm, the interior and mebbe the bumpers. The law says you can't chop the shell around, take the wings off, so the result looks a lot like what you started with. Is the new car still a hot rod? Its got the same receipe, built within the laws of the day, and results in a much faster car. Except it doesn't look the same, so its not a Rod. For me it comes down to the fact that the sort of people who once built rods are still there, they're just playing with different base vehicles When something gets expensive, it gets left behind. Just look at 70's Fords, at the height of custom car, people were doing a million different things to old Fords. Now if they're played with they're all made to look like the top spec model, in perfect paint. Every mk1 is a mexico rep, every mk1 capri a GT etc etc. Boring. The youth (under 35's) however are playing with cheaper stuff VW's or in the case of RR everything that isn't a 'scene' car! Just the way I like it ;D
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id say they're trying to relive the 1950s scene or whenever , imo alot of the cars were just right anyway
its not all about going fast is it , alot of modern family cars would teach em a lesson
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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It is (was?) all about going fast that's the point.
Matt
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When something gets expensive, it gets left behind. Just look at 70's Fords, at the height of custom car, people were doing a million different things to old Fords. Now if they're played with they're all made to look like the top spec model, in perfect paint. Every mk1 is a mexico rep, every mk1 capri a GT etc etc. Boring. Same thing occurred to me. In the 70's when the custom/hotrod scene started to happen over here there was plenty of base material to work with. Lots of cheap 50's and 60's cars just waiting to be bought for a song. Parts were plentiful... and with a few months work and for very little money you could have a car that was relatively fast and had the custom/hotrod look. These days to buy anything from that era cheap, you have to be fairly good at welding and fabricating.... and also have the facilities and the time to do it in. The Ford 'scene' tax is another problem, as you said. The money that Mk1 escorts are bringing now makes them more a financial investment prospect than a custom project. Over time I think the bubble will burst and people will get burned, cos their inflated value is due only to the people that remember them. Once that generation pop their clogs... or desert the hobby and take up gardening, I'm not sure that they will hold their price so easy.
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Last Edit: Jul 29, 2010 8:42:56 GMT by arrocuda
'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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It is (was?) all about going fast that's the point. Matt yeah true , in the 50's it was young lads lashing together a old heap with the fastest engine they could find in the scrap yard now its more about the "scene" for many , much as i like my 1980s golfs they like thiers
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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what phoenix says is more or less bang on. tbh I'm the exception to the rule these days, most other people into hotrods are more than twice my age.......... there is a few other young rodders (most of whom are on here, kfw, johnny 69, etc.) so there is a next generation coming through, but were way outnumbered by pensioners!
put it into perspective- i could have easily built a (if not two) D1 level drift car based on say a s14 with all the competition parts neccessary and over 500hp for the price of my model A, AND still had enough left over to enter the series for a year or two, and have funds left to replace crash damaged parts. and it could have been built in a few moths rather than 4+ years so far on my A.
so to sum up, if i wanted to go fast id have bought something japanese.
the other big factor is BIVA. a lot of rodders are giving the whole thing up as a bad job because theyve built cars that are being legislated off the road. this is mostly due to their own short-sightedness, most of the big-power rods built over the last 50 years in this country are totally illegal, as theres nothing of the original car left except the outer skin of the shell, yet they're still trying to cling on to their tax exempt logbook to save themselves £200 a year. you can build a skyline or a s14 etc with all bolt on parts easily get 500hp or rwd fun, and it still be perfectly legal. i know more than a few 'rodders who are panic-ing and selling up 'whilst they still can' as they put it, as they're scared their cars are illegal (which tbh a lot are) so are trying to get rid of them before they're worthless.
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I fit into this boat. I used to try and blow Cossie doors off and now I yog my money on what people consider is a slow old jalopy with poor handling, so I'll bite.
2 things happened:
1) even the most mundane hatchback is now actually quite fast and if you want to beat the fast ones you have to spend some serious moolah and build a pretty serious 60's car. My Anglia used to eat everything on the road 10 years ago but it is not as fast as a 1.6 Focus these days. Sad but true.
2) I grew up and life isn't all about racing people off the lights. I'd rather have fun and not be too bothered about who's got the fastest car.
3) Cars don't have to be fast to scare the **** out of you. People seem to forget that.
Ok that's three points but pretty much sums my experience.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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oh, another point i totally forgot is that building a fast street car is totally pointless these days, as you'll loose your license faster than most of the uk rodders are loosing their faculties. with maybe the exception of building a track car to drive to the track rather than having to trailer it, big brother is everywhere these days so you really cant get away with driving a car hard on the street anymore, unless you really live in the sticks.
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Not dead at all.
How many 80's golfs with high powered 20VT ore popping up and doing quick track times?
The world moves on. If people have what is considered a "REAL" hotrod nowadays it would be expensive and invalidate the original concept.
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Loxlee
Part of things
Ford Capri with 1600cc's of pure power!........
Posts: 887
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I agree with what people have said so far, new cars are all just really fast and to try and build a rod that would blow them away would be really expensive.
Thats not to say hot rodders have given up, most rods still go significantly faster than they did when they came out of the showroom and surely thats one of the main points of hot rodding? Building a car that goes faster than it used to?!
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I like where it is now.... Loud and As fast as the average mans wallet will let it be... Its got to the point where to keep up with modern stuff / blow the doors off the cossies modern equiv you will have to spend alot, and make it whats effectively a modern car. Something a hotrod just isnt.... Its meant to be a nod to the 50's/ 60's , Chucking a modern vette engine in just doesnt fit it... Although in regards to moving forward, I think the americans are first on the ball with diesel rods.... Thats gotta be the next big thing... Big bang for your buck... showy, and different when you compare it to 50 odd years or more of the petrol v8's....
Personally if i can get enough room and a decent job soon, I want to get a winter project on the cards, Inc some german TDI power and a classic british saloon......
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Acme
Part of things
Posts: 116
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I agree with Phoenix
Another point is that a hot rod was built on a budget for a reason. Those building them at the time didn't have any money. A cheap way to go fast that evolved a scene/look. As you get older, children move out, mortgages get paid off and you then have that disposable income to make your cheap car now look pretty. Maybe its evolution? maybe its old age? In the same way that as mentioned above people are not trying new things on 60/70's Fords as its all been tried and they have the money to make a pretty car thats still fast.
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Jul 29, 2010 10:21:28 GMT
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these have gota be a modern day hot rod , summet cheap with a silly engine lol
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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Jul 29, 2010 10:22:39 GMT
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Dave Rothwell. <--- see that.. it's a full stop
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,685
Club RR Member Number: 91
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Jul 29, 2010 10:40:16 GMT
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ah the man behind this beauty Very true, takes old cars, that aren't that expensive actually, and does an amazing job with them. I'd say he is a bit on his own when it comes to UK rodding these days, but he's hopefully pulling a lot of people with him in the rod scene *edit to fix photo
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,685
Club RR Member Number: 91
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Jul 29, 2010 10:43:03 GMT
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Actually I shouldn't look at that car as it makes me want something 40/50's so bably it hurts, and I already have too many projects!
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Jul 29, 2010 10:44:43 GMT
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Well I've been reading car mags since knee-high to a slot mag, such as Street Machine, Hot car Custom, Car (which I still read now. What strikes me is that the quality of new builds that fit into say, the type of catchment area that CC will feature are usually very high quality. just look at this months cover car (this thread needs more pics lest the Mods lock it BTW): Mostly hand built, scratch-built body, top paint and interior work, I love it to death and I bet it goes and handles as good as it looks. I don't think the Hot Rod scene has lost a thing (other than it could do with a little more young blood), but the whole modified car scene has fractured and fragmented to such a degree that you just don't see a car show with all of these different elements anymore. The Hot Rod guys keep to themselves and unless you go to the right shows you miss out on a lot of great cars. Methinks some crossover thinking is needed e.g. an RR stand at some shows that are seen as more rod-oriented.
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Last Edit: Jul 29, 2010 10:50:57 GMT by e21meister
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Jul 29, 2010 10:54:06 GMT
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Liking both that and the Flying Standard. The latter has made me have very evil thoughts regarding prewar Riley Kestrels!
The common theme between both though is a good eye for design / styling. E.g. that blue rod looks like the sort of thing that the designers of the Plymouth Prowler might have been doodling, as it is very well thought out & there are plenty of design elements which aren't on the original car. Likewise with the Figoni & Falaschi style bumpers on the Standard. For me, those elements lift both cars well above the trad rods (I do like those too though!!).
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Last Edit: Jul 29, 2010 10:56:05 GMT by Paul H
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