PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,685
Club RR Member Number: 91
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Jul 29, 2010 10:59:07 GMT
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See now I've read this months custom car, and while I love the engineering and effort that has gone into the cover car, I don't actually like the finished article, but I don't know why. Just seems a bit, I don't know, not me some how, which is very odd. Mebbe its just too good for my crummy brain to handle! Could just be the blue leather actually lol On another note, is it me or has CC been getting much better recently and actually started to become a good read month in month out? Which leads me onto another thought - does a strong rod scene need a strong scene mag or two, and have these been somewhat missing in the past few years? The US has some excelent mags, and reading this months CC it felt like they've taken a few nice bits from them.
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rob0r
East of England
Posts: 2,743
Club RR Member Number: 104
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Jul 29, 2010 11:05:06 GMT
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I remember seeing a properly done traditional looking rod in PPC a year or two back, it was running a very powerful volvo T5 engine and proper suspension etc etc. I think it was in Sweden, it definitely went against today's traditional rods.
I guess I'd consider my E21 323i track car to be a modern day hot rod. 1982 car, engine from a mid 90's 525i, coilover suspension etc etc. Everything's been done in an effort to be quicker, ideally if I had the money it would have an M3 engine instead. Pretty much as phoenix described the E30...
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E30 320i 3.5 - E23 730 - E3 3.0si - E21 316 M42 - E32 750i ETC
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Jul 29, 2010 11:07:15 GMT
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Which leads me onto another thought - does a strong rod scene need a strong scene mag or two, and have these been somewhat missing in the past few years? The US has some excelent mags, and reading this months CC it felt like they've taken a few nice bits from them. I'd say it needs at least two, since that way they keep each other on their toes. Also helps to inspire, and educate, whether it be in terms of what someone can do at home, or regarding info on different styles etc.
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Jul 29, 2010 11:19:51 GMT
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Which leads me onto another thought - does a strong rod scene need a strong scene mag or two, and have these been somewhat missing in the past few years? The US has some excelent mags, and reading this months CC it felt like they've taken a few nice bits from them. I'd say it needs at least two, since that way they keep each other on their toes. Also helps to inspire, and educate, whether it be in terms of what someone can do at home, or regarding info on different styles etc. The irony is that the soul of Hot rod & Custom is for me still very evident in CC now. If it hadn't been for that mag existing within the Link House stable, CC would have withered & died years ago. I just wish Street Machine (wistful look in eye) was still around, there was a mag that kept CC honest. N.B Street Machine does still exist - sorta... I got a few copies, has to be said it does remind you a little of 'our' SM. But I digress.
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Last Edit: Jul 29, 2010 11:20:45 GMT by e21meister
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Jul 29, 2010 11:21:03 GMT
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Ive noticed a lot of the older rodders as they are fast becoming now are actually pricing the younger generations out of the market/scene,
I mean who under thirty (unless a total fanatic or a fair bit of wedge) can afford the £10k (rough) to £25/30k for a model A??
All the throw backs and rodders re-living their youth and building cars (which theres only a finite number of, which are getting thinner on the cheap side) This is maybe a reason why the hot rod scene is dying a death slowly, on the NRSA theres a real adversion to change and the tye of cars being registered/featured on the club over a traditional Rod, so people are moving on.
Must be a reason why forums and clubs like RR are thriving as anything basically goes!
My 2p!
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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Has the Hot Rod scene "given up"? Davenger
@dminifreak
Club Retro Rides Member 140
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Jul 29, 2010 11:24:26 GMT
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Part of the problem is the cut off date for what they tell us can be considdered a hotrod. It's something like 1949 or something equally silly. The true spirit of hotrodding is alive and well right here on retro rides. A bunch of guys modifying thier cars to ba faster, cooler, or just plain better, with very little money and using parts that are readily available. Just like people have been doing for decades
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Stu_B
Posted a lot
Investing in rust!
Posts: 1,266
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Jul 29, 2010 11:28:38 GMT
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I have a lot of hot rod mates, go to a lot of meets & stuff with them. I leave my Anglia parked in the corner, even though it has a different, faster engine, uprated everything etc... it's not a hot rod!
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Jul 29, 2010 11:36:20 GMT
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Bring back the old days! Good times
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Jul 29, 2010 12:06:18 GMT
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Yup, big swing currently to trad style and period correct. They don't go faster than modern cars nor do they go round corners anywhere as well..but that's not what that particular group are about. There are cars pushing the boundaries still but they are usually looked down on now. You'd be hard pushed to build something in your home garage that could compete with most modern quick dailies. However most modern stuf is bland and soulless and not a very involving drive (as I'n sure retroriders will agree ? ) THAT'S why we all build what we do and mess with old cars.. The old hotrodders were innovative and had no competition back then ,times have changed. Some of us rodders are still trying to do something different within the styles we like .My truck from last years Gathering is being converted to a 200bhp /and equivalent 75mpg still won't go round a corner like a S2000 though It's also possible to build cheap rods , takes time and patience though, reckon I'll have about £2000 in my next one . My mates just built his other half an old Austin Litchfield, cut into a pickup, Morris Thousand engine ,box axle and all totally legal within the 8 points sytem. It's an absolute blast but it's not quick and it doesn't corner well but it screams hotrod. Knowing the way he builds it was very 'reasonable' as well
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Jul 29, 2010 12:09:39 GMT
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Oh yeah, the spirit of hot rodding is still alive in young modifiers, just that the cars chosen will never be hotrods but they will be hotrodded
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jul 29, 2010 12:14:57 GMT
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See now I've read this months custom car, and while I love the engineering and effort that has gone into the cover car, I don't actually like the finished article, but I don't know why. Just seems a bit, I don't know, not me some how, which is very odd. Mebbe its just too good for my crummy brain to handle! Could just be the blue leather actually lol On another note, is it me or has CC been getting much better recently and actually started to become a good read month in month out? Which leads me onto another thought - does a strong rod scene need a strong scene mag or two, and have these been somewhat missing in the past few years? The US has some excelent mags, and reading this months CC it felt like they've taken a few nice bits from them. i hear you on this one too. although i can certainly appreciate the workmanship, etc, the finished car is dull to my eyes. it may be labelled as a 34 ford, but it isnt. there isnt a single piece of 34 ford in it. its a kit car styled to look like a 34 ford, built using almost exclusively off the shelf or one off fabbed parts, which is i think where i loose interest. there no 'look what i did to make these bits fit together and work' like there is on other builds. it would be interesting to see what it says on the v5, and to know if its gone through sva/biva or not. i agree we need two magazines over here. its why CC got sh1t for a good few years after sm folded, they had no competition, rodders would just buy it out of habit rather than choosing between the two like before. theyve upped their game a bit recently, but i think thats down to the fact you can now buy import magazines in whsmith, (hot rod, OSR, etc.), and people not actually buying mags anymore cos of the net, etc.
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Jul 29, 2010 12:32:10 GMT
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I think the spirit's still there it's just the choice of cars, engines and modifications that have moved on. The perfect example for me is that e21 3 series on here (I can't find the thread) with the BMW v8 in it. He's taken a reasonably common and cheap small family car and mated it with a reasonably cheap and common v8 engine. An e21 316 isn't that special on it's own and the v8 isn't all that special in a 7 series BMW but the combination of the 2 things makes for some thing extra special. It's not really that different from someone taking a Morris Minor in the 80's and sticking a Rover v8 or Alfa twin cam engine in it.
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Brian Damaged
West Midlands
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 9,555
Club RR Member Number: 33
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Jul 29, 2010 13:00:59 GMT
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I think that maybe the Hot Rod 'scene' has given up in that they don't seem willing to accept/encourage any young blood into what they see as 'their' sport. There's always been some kind of cliquey, nose-thumbing sniffiness around the Rod scene in the UK, anyone else who's old enough to remember the sniping between the NSRA/NASC in the 80's will bear witness to that one. But it doesn't stop there being some jaw-dropping cars around, both trad and billet. The '34 Ford in this month's CC bears testimony to that. I think the whole Nostalgia thing has become more of a lifestyle choice now that just being about the cars. Unless you're into that (and I'm not) then you're gonna forever feel like an outsider. That's no different to the VW scene, the 'Old Skool Ford' scene, and even the 2CV scene in that respect. You either buy into it, or you don't. Largely it doesn't happen on RR...which is why it remains the dog's danglies. ;D Best to just ignore the people and any 'head in the sand' attitude you may encounter, and just enjoy the cars.
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Jul 29, 2010 13:01:14 GMT
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I have a lot of hot rod mates, go to a lot of meets & stuff with them. I leave my Anglia parked in the corner, even though it has a different, faster engine, uprated everything etc... it's not a hot rod! But, it is still acceptable in the Hot Rod scene. CC for example has featured plenty of post '49 cars, the only difference is they are a little more Hot Rod influenced in the choice of paint and wheels. Perhaps we've bound ourselves so tightly into our little cliques that we have the perception we can't mix. Which makes me a saaad panda. I agree we need two magazines over here. its why CC got sh1t for a good few years after sm folded, they had no competition, rodders would just buy it out of habit rather than choosing between the two like before. theyve upped their game a bit recently, but I think thats down to the fact you can now buy import magazines in whsmith, (hot rod, OSR, etc.), and people not actually buying mags anymore cos of the net, etc. The irony is now I can buy Hot Rod, Car Craft, HR&C from my local newsagents cheaper than the domestic mags! How f#cked-up is that!
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Last Edit: Jul 29, 2010 13:05:08 GMT by e21meister
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Jul 29, 2010 14:44:16 GMT
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I was suprised at the average age of the hot rod guys at the Supernationals, most of the younger (40 and below) people were driving the standard or near standard Zephyrs, Corsairs, Cortinas etc.
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Jul 29, 2010 14:45:22 GMT
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One big factor to this is money. Most young drivers, the ones that would keep new ideas and innovations coming into the scene while learning from the older generations, simply can't afford to run a hot rod legally. It's bad enough insurance a bland, slow shopping cart let alone a V8 (or more) monster. Then there's all those other expenses like fuel and parts which are much more expensive now than they were.
Retro cars are the fodder of modern hot rodders, and while the name is different the ethos is the same: buy a cheap old banger, clean it up, but a powerful engine in, jobs a good 'un.
Hot rodding now is more difficult than it was 20 years ago due to scarcity of traditional bodyshells, cost of parts and legal costs. Another 20 years I don't know if we'll even bother hot rodding anything due to the above.
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Jul 29, 2010 16:05:07 GMT
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Actually the new laws affecting new build OEM cars will limit 'modifying' in general . New technology means you will be unable to modify new cars (but not banned ). Certain criteria involved in BIVA will mean cars from around 95 ish will be a nightmare to get through so we end up with a limited pool of motors to chose from again .
So ,strangely building a ground up car will become more of an attractive proposition.
On Friday I did a presentation at the ESRA Nationals with rodders from all over Europe and trust me, we have it good still compared to most.
Maybe if the yound blood ( that'll be you lot then !' ) get into rods then we'll see more innovation . It can be done relatively cheaply , as I said above, but it takes a lot of time and dedication to finish a build .
I served my time like you are doing , tinkering with what is readily available, and learning techniques and skills that I then, eventually, applied to rods though I spent most of my time in that scene playing with late 50s early 60s cars.
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Jul 29, 2010 17:35:56 GMT
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As the regulatory sell-out by the old hotrodding guard continues and deepens, and it will, two things will happen: 1) There will a more clearly defined divergence of interests between the monied "wallet-rodding" crowd, who don't give two S's and an F whether you can modify a unibody shell or old classic IC engines. Versus the (mostly) younger and less-well-heeled crowd who are less savvy politically, have little/no leadership, have little/no voice, and have little/no sway on the ever-tightening noose of regulations which are eviscerating the sheer ability to legally build and use hotrods. 2) As this dichotomy sharpens and splits the motoring hobbyists into camps, the "solitary man building his ride in the shed" ethos will be a mythic paradigm rather than something which we actually do any longer. This will happen as surely as the sun will come up tomorrow. It has been the model everywhere, including Kauliflowerni-Uhhh, and that's how it goes down. The money people go for new-build replicars and pre-packaged and taxed "green" motorvation. The grimy outsiders will peer in increasingly through museum glass at what they used to have. The question I cannot answer is, will there be an uprising against the bans and restrictions by the underclass? Or will they "take it"? The sell-out is happening now, here and in Yurrup. The false justifications in place. The brainwashing in public school houses. The smug self-satisfaction of saving Flipper and Orca from the Hemi and the flathead and the 1-pt more than the 8 allotted. The "good and responsible" hotrodders will buy their way out of Dodge, like the well-heeled always do. A few, like Leno, will even try to reach down and help slow things for a decade or two. But, this is a turning of screws a millimeter at a time, until it's a done deed. "Who'll stop the rain?" Oh, and the internecine debate will be (and is), by the money-rodders, "We are saving the hobby. There is no other way. This could be a lot worse. Don't make waves. Accept fate. Cars really are ruining the earth." Some will mean it, but some are merely cynically mouthing it because even though they know their compromises are merely stop-gaps which will be washed away inevitably, they will be dead and gone within 10 or 20 years, and they're going to enjoy their ecological despoilation now dammit. They know it's BS science, but screw-it, there's fun to be had before they go room temp, and the young/poor/unibodyrats be damned. Hell, even SEMA is now in bed with "green" manufacturers, walking away from those who want to keep and play with what they have. Who do you think is calling the tune? The engine-makers with their CARB-approved and certified crate motors to sell? Or some kid with his uncle's old 409 in the barn? Word. Wise up.
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Last Edit: Jul 29, 2010 17:51:11 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Jul 29, 2010 18:53:35 GMT
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Never knew you where an Average White Band fan. (or are you quoting CCR?) When regulation has strangled our hobby, who'll pick up the pieces?
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Jul 29, 2010 19:06:55 GMT
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a lot is being read into not a lot here. And I've only skimmed a lot of what s being said. After all, why ask people who (for the most part) are not rodders about rodding? The simple fact is that building a hot rod as a way to go fast heap & easy stopped being the way forward about 1965. Since then people have built rods because they want a rod. For a while the only real option if you wanted to go real quick was to build something with a yank V8 in it. A lot of the speed freaks were around the rod scene and some built rods. But really, cheap strong bodies with better aero are available. Trad rods are popular right now because 1. its the fashion, and most people follow a fashion whether they admit it or not. You can't help but be influenced by what else is on the show and track circuit. 2. old cars look better with trad builds. simple. There are some exceptions to the rules stated above.... I'm slowly building a "street race style" Plymouth, but performance is not the most important criteria. Its getting the (period!) look right. Most of us of a certain age have been and street raced and realise now how wrong and stupid that is and now we don't need to be able to beat every car at the lights. Just to sound right, look right, feel right. If you wanna race theres a track for that but most of us with families can't get to the track so much so we just build something we like for the street. fairly fast is fast enough there. I certainly don;t think rodding is dying. Not when you see the ace cars being built or the money being spent with specialists. The reason real rods are expensive is, well, because they are. You can live in a fantasy world where a '29 A can change hands for £1500 but to build a good one will cost you best part of £20K. Go price the parts up. I did. Thats why I drive a Trans Am now, cheap thrills.... Now if you want to go fast, and thats whats its about for you there are so many options and so many of them are very reasonably priced. But not one is a real hot rod...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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