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I've been hearing stories about people falling foul of the DVLA / VIC / SVA with modified cars.
I've heard stories drifting about, you know, a mate of a mate, some bloke in the pub, some half story on a forum...
But those VOSA vans which are normally out checking HGVs aren't overloaded, tampered with the tacho etc. are starting to look at modified vehicles...
Seen a couple of stories now from people reporting it first hand - ie "this happened to me"
I missed the start of it but theres a guy not that far from me got busted at the MOT test with a modified Zodiac, had a V8 in it and he got dobbed in to the DVLA or something and they were checking the car over last I heard. They spotted immediately that the front susuepnsion and brakes were all upgraded and they knew that wasn't a Zodiac rear axle on it... So all of a sudden he doesn;t have enough "Points" to claim its the original vehicle and I heard no more after that so no idea what happened to it.
Chap on the NSRA forum had a rat rod, registered on the V5 as a '35 Ford and he was pulled by a copper and basically he's had the V5 confiscated and the car looks like its ended up scrapped.
Also reported on the NSRA forum is a story I'd also heard where VOSA/police/DVLA had turned up at a 4x4 event and started checking allthe vehicles out looking for later model Landys running on earlier log books (to get the tax exempt status) as well as early bodies on late chassis (also illegal unless you go through SVA etc and thus lose the tax execmpt status of the car)
Heard a few rumours and stories of rods being pulled over and gone over. A mate of a mate lost his fibreglass '32 Ford rod that way - he was running an old Austin or Morris log book... Ooops, confiscated V5 again....
So here's the worry....
Here we all are discussing say our Chevette with a manta rear axle, Isuzu front clip, XE engine, blh blh blh. And then posting photos showing the registration number.... How long before Mr DVLA is on here looking for stuff to jump on, or turning up at a show or event checking log books and vehcile specs?
I was ahppily thinking "they are only interested in people rining stolen cars and the like" but it seems they have their sights set on us as well...
Bleak thought for the day anyway fellas...
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Last Edit: Feb 2, 2007 11:50:32 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Should we be worried?
From your post it seems clear that all the people had incorrect details listed, or were intentionally (in the case of some Landy owners) trying to defeat the system. If you're not sure you're in the clear, you can't just chance it - ring 'em up and find out what the deal is and if there's anything you need to know!
So it sounds like they paid the price!
I must say though I've never heard of this "points" system, RE claiming it's the original vehicle.....That sounds incorrect somehow as there are infinite numbers of vehicles out there running similar specifications, none of whom ever seem to have any problems, myself included...
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Last Edit: Feb 2, 2007 11:57:02 GMT by Lewis
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I was ahppily thinking "they are only interested in people rining stolen cars and the like" but it seems they have their sights set on us as well... Don't be daft, ringers and thieves are hard to catch! It's much cheaper and easier to go after law-abiding citizens. ;D To be fair, ringing a Landy to evade tax ain't right. Also, a very heavily modified car should have an SVA, or at least the builder / owner should check out whether he'll need one or not. But there are far worse crimes being committed, and I agree that it is worrying how far this Big Brother sh!t is going. It's looking far easier to be a career criminal than an honest person these days. Boils my p!ss.
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If you swap out the engine, box, back axle, front suspension and brakes on your car to upgrade them then according to the DVLA you no longer hae the original car. They want you to go to the DVLA and get it checked over, issued with a Q plate and probably now you will be forced to have an SVA test to ensure it meets current EU / type approval standards. Sadly this means all lenses are E marked, appropriate dash board, correct padding, correct type of seat belts, correct type of locks, immobiliser, demister, emission and noise standards, blah blah blah.
Plus you lose the original reg number and the £200 or so SVA fee plus what ever costs there are to make the mods required for it to meet current book standards. Then £65 or what ever it is to register it again and £20 for new plates etc etc
Plus the fact that there is no way on earth a lot of older cars can even meet SVA without sizable mods which will ruin the car. Heard of a guy who ended up having to put a stock Beetle (air cooled one) though SVA and it would not pass. So a mint/rust free imported car ended up scrapped / broken for spares.
Plenty of people have more "notifiable" mods on their car than the DVLA think is allowed on the original number.
The hot rods are obvious because they stick out. The 4x4 guys have been taking the pee for years (as have Mini and Beetle owners too though)
An original part no longer counts as original ifit is modiifed either. And doing as little as gussetting a corss member or somthign to increase strencht means you chassis is "modified" and then you're off to SVA...
I would be happy with an enhanced safety check, it makes sense. Trying to get 30, 50, 70 year old cars to meet modern standrads is lunacy. If continuity of history can be shown then the original number should be kept and the car not re-registered.
They are even getting interested in "visual alteration" of the car now...
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Last Edit: Feb 2, 2007 12:06:58 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Certainly does seem a shame to pick on enthusiasts when there are real issues out there that need tackling hard.
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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They want you to go to the DVLA and get it checked over, issued with a Q plate and probably now you will be forced to have an SVA test to ensure it meets current EU / type approval standards. Sadly this means all lenses are E marked, appropriate dash board, correct padding, correct type of seat belts, correct type of locks, immobiliser, demister, emission and noise standards, blah blah blah. This happened to a lad who used to attend a local cruise in an 80's Caddy. TBH he was really asking for it as the tint on the front windows meant it was impossible to see out of them at night. The tint lead to a strict MOT and next time the car was out it had motorcycle lights grafted the back as indicators and all sorts.
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Last Edit: Feb 2, 2007 12:12:29 GMT by MWF
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It's pretty sickening how far they're going. I wonder if registering a car in another country would be viable? One that's more liberal... North Korea perhaps...
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Last Edit: Feb 2, 2007 12:14:54 GMT by BenzBoy
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Oh dear , but what are we to expect? the worst? Correct! Alistair presents a very important point there. its not only the obvious criminals checking out our stuff online. watch out. now I got nowt illegal going on but this does sound threatening to our hobby/lifestyle/transport/privacy, again
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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I was looking into putting a Rover V8 into a Starlet & got a copy of the SVA book from a mate who built a kit car & if I had done it, all properly it would have been on a Q plate & have to go through a SVA test because there would have only been 5 'points' left of the original car (the shell) & it needs something like 8 to be considered the same car. If I had done it & kept quiet, it could well end up being taken away or forced to get it SVA'd
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I've never actually read the whole SVA manual in any detail. Just a skim is frightening enough. If you are building a modern / high tech style ride then its just a challenge to the ingenuity to build something that looks nice and meets the criteria. But if you want to built a trad style car, rat rod or a sleeper you are screwed. Even stuff like the door handles on a 100E are a fail straight away. Get this, someone might catchtheir coat slieve in one and get pulled over or hurt.... FFS.
I would have thought that a fairly late base car you should be able to get through SVA with it. If you have burst proof latches, E marked lenses, padded dash, colapsible steering column, etc already you are well on the way.
If you are building a gasser with a blower through the hood then you are screwed royally.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Maybe i should think about joining NSRA again so they have some more power in their boots. not been over there in Aaaaages
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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The SVA manual is here: www.stuartevans.me.uk/sva_manual_draft.pdfYou really need to make sure your car doesn't need an SVA test, because if it does it seems to be a stack of work! Hopefully somewhere in that document is the points system, I'll have a read through it now
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This is all rather worrying. Bloody pen pushers who make up the rules probly don't even drive. I know the transport secutary doesn't have a liscence FFS!! How can these people pass laws when they no nothing about the subject in hand? Besides Q plates look bandit
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OAP drifta Volvo 340,Williams power 1960 Beetle twin 40's 1776cc
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This is a bit worrying, but not unexpected. Back when I started modding cars in the late 80's, before SVA, anything went. My Alfa engine Beetle a case in point. Over twice the original BHP on the original 4 wheel drum brakes, which were barely adequate for the original 40HP I cringe now about how stupid this was, but because I didn't have to do it - it didn't get done (being 18 and invinsible was also a factor). Fortunately I managed not to kill myself or anyone else with it. I'm resigned to the fact my Celica is going to need an SVA. I've got the SVA manual and am pretty sure it will be OK. Only thing I'm not looking forward to is a Q plate. But as Alistairk says probably not to much of an issue for a 80's on car, but may be impossible 60-70's and earlier cars. Big problems ahead I fear Isn't there a big loop hole in the system anyway? If I just dropped a V8 in the Celica, it would have enough points NOT to require a SVA. If I do it properly (as I have) uprating the brakes, chassis, steering and transmission to cope it DOES require a SVA. Go figure
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Rubbish. Hope my sierra does not need one its been in build 16 years, and apart from that engine its ALL ford bits (not 1.6ones, but ford sierra bits), one fat worry after another. on the road asap......
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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As far as I understand it SVA would not stop you building a 1000 BHP Morris Minor with the original drum brakes, lever arm dampers, etc. All they want to know is that it has E marked lenses, correct layout of warning lights on the dash, padded dash top, burst prrof latches, radiused corners on metal edges, blah blah blah. The vehicle dynamics can be lethal but the type approval stuff must be met.
In the V8 Celica, I think if you do the swap, then tell the DVLA what you have done, ask if it needs SVA, they say no, then you sneakily upgrade other parts later... I dunno, that might not work.
I wonder what they mean by "Original, unmodified" suspension. If you use uprated shocks and springs, surely they are "service parts" and so long as the original wishbones, mounts, crossmember etc are in place then is that modified or is that not? Obv. coilovers would put you into a modified suspension category...
I dunno. If shocks and springs count you could very easily run into SVAland with a basic engine swap and lowering job...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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So cut original springs with big engine, no chassis strengthening and no brake upgrade = MOTable ... well thought through.
Is this a result of the consultancy document that was making the rounds? I was under the impression that was still in the consultation period?? Or are they just applying already existing laws fully.
Guess we'll end up having slower galleries like in Japan because we'll need to go through and edit out the license plates like they do, because their cars are pretty much all illegal...
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I'm all for it. it'll reduce global warming and help win the war on terrorism. Or is that just bol locks? I wonder when the government will do something to improve the lives of taxpayers. Rather than the dry bummings they keep threatening/giving out?
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Someone I know got pulled in a 100% custom built Model T last year and bollocked for having no fenders. Man, he got off lightly! Saying no more than that... Hope my sierra does not need one its been in build 16 years, and apart from that engine its ALL ford bits (not 1.6ones, but ford sierra bits), one fat worry after another. on the road asap...... I, er, know of a late '80s Sierra which only has the original shell / panels, and gearbox. Everything else came off other higher-spec Sierras (although the engine swap was like-for-like). Plans are for a Zetec & MT75 'box in place of the Pinto & type-9. The thought of having to SVA it and get a Q plate when it's effectively just a lowered Sierra Ghia/GLX/L "bitsa" with a sensible engine is a bit depressing [edit: for the "person" who owns it, whoever that is].... Luckily it looks like any other Sierra!
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My fleet: Suzuki GSX-R600Y SRAD with bald, melted tyres A borrowed Mondeo
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