LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,665
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When I chopped the roof off my Imp I sent the log book off with the cabriolet box ticked and a cover letter saying the roof has been removed and basically only the outer shell and floorpan remain of the original shell etc.. Waited 6 weeks and got a shiny new V5 on my doorstep with the car now called 'Hillman Imp SPORTS' Seems they don't care that its so extensivly modified! To be fair, I guess it does still have the 'original' body so there's 5 points saved, plus all the suspension still original...
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425ci
Part of things
Posts: 518
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How about turning an estate into a panel van? I think that depends on how you panel it. The thing that you should be concerned with regards the body shell and if it is modified. My interpretation would be that if you weld in the panels to blank out the side windows you have modified the bodyshell. That's you knackered straight away. If you fit side panels in place of the glass, using window rubbers and the untouched window aperture then you can't have modified the bodyshell, so they can't get you on that one. I know this sounds ridiculous, but you wait until they've got all the hot rods off the road and start looking at anything that looks modified. With a separate body and chassis car you care okay because they are only concerned with the chassis and whether that has been modified. With a monocoque you're stuffed if you've modified any of it. One obvious modification that'll stick out like a sore thumb is a roof chop. But of course the inspectors aren't fools. They will be knowledgeable about cars themselves and know what to be looking for. Sadly this has nothing to do with prevention of crime. Just think of any modified car that you know of. Now think if there has been ANY modifications to the body shell (or chassis) in order to modify it - and that means something as simple as a bracket welded on to accommodate something. Right, with the wording of the regulations in mind, ANY modification and you're stuffed. It's all down to how long it takes them to find your car and start poking their nose into it. Any car that looks modified will attract the most attention. Mike
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Current vehicle: Mountfield Mirage 3.5hp (18" cut)
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425ci
Part of things
Posts: 518
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A lot of this BS would be too difficult to enforce. Take my South African built Sunny truck. How the hell is anyone going to know what components are supposed to be there or what engine it should have? There's no way for them to know or even find out. Somehow I doubt many bods at VOSA or the DVLA would know what a '62 Bluebird engine looks like. It's all just nonsense. I agree there. I can't see there being some all-knowing panel of experts with encyclopaedic knowledge of every car ever made. Again, this is just ludicrous, ill thought out legislation dreamed up by the government turning their attention to obscure issues because problems like terrorism, burgeoning crime and government corruption are too difficult to solve. Also, because at the end of the day the money-men have the final say in most of these matters, I can't see the government wanting to lose out on all that revenue that is generated by the modified car business - parts suppliers, garages, manufacturers, importers etc... Don't be so sure. Right then. Just pretend you are a vehicle inspector and have been given the power to make people's lives hell. Apply your knowledge of cars to your pretend job. I don't know about you but I bet I could pick out most modifications on any vehicle you put in front of me. The more subtle the modification the greater the challenge. Most modifications follow a similar route, using familiar parts. They aren't going to be hard to spot. All you'd need is the authority, a small knob and the little-Hitler busy-body mentality and you'd be in your element. Mike
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Current vehicle: Mountfield Mirage 3.5hp (18" cut)
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JC
Part of things
Posts: 815
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does body mods include things bolted on though? might be able to get round it that way for minor things? does seem pretty stupid to me that they don't care If you've put in a bigger engine, as long as you haven't uprated too much to make it safe! Hot rods are gonna be royally screwed by this (or beauraucratically screwed at least) it's gonna be very hard to get anything like the 8 points. Although if they do enforce it and people comply with it, a Q plate might turn into a "must have" accessory
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Last Edit: Feb 2, 2007 16:39:13 GMT by JC
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JC
Part of things
Posts: 815
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All you'd need is the authority, a small knob and the little-Hitler busy-body mentality and you'd be in your element. Mike so does that mean anyone from the DVLA or police or government would be qualified to do it?
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425ci
Part of things
Posts: 518
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How do they pick up on it - surely a local MOT station will still let it through anyway or is it the idiot who rings up saying "naah, s'not standard guv" that'll get you in trouble? As far as I've heard, MOT testers have been (or will be) told to look for undeclared changes to a vehicle at the time of the MOT. As to when this actually happens I have no idea, but I know several MOT testers and none of them has heard of this yet. That's just one of many ways you could get hauled in for inspection. Posting pictures of your car on a forum won't help! I know for a fact that the DVLA are watching one other modified car forum that I go on. There's no reason to assume they aren't watching this one and all the other ones too. Regarding modified vehicles and declaring changes, as has been highlighted so far, it is currently possible to get away with it, depending on what Vehicle Registration Office you deal with. This is all going to change. The DVLA has been training new inspectors and also re-training existing inspectors in order to standardize their methods accross the board. Mike
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Current vehicle: Mountfield Mirage 3.5hp (18" cut)
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425ci
Part of things
Posts: 518
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does body mods include things bolted on though? might be able to get round it that way for minor things? does seem pretty stupid to me that they don't care If you've put in a bigger engine, as long as you haven't uprated too much to make it safe! Hot rods are gonna be royally screwed by this (or beauraucratically screwed at least) it's gonna be very hard to get anything like the 8 points. Although if they do enforce it and people comply with it, a Q plate might turn into a "must have" accessory You are absolutely right with your comment about uprating too much to make it safe! You'll be okay with a 600bhp Cosworth turbo engine in your MkI Escort if the rest of it is untouched. Upgrade the car to make it all safe and workable and you'll cause yourself problems. Basically, most hot rods in existence today have had it. It's possible to build one according to the rules, and some people have (and are doing so), but most haven't. Hot rods are going to be the number 1 target. It has started already, but it's going to get worse. The trouble is that it isn't clear what exactly constitutes a modification, but if you apply the rules as worded, then ANY body shell or chassis modification could cause you problems. It remains to be seen how silly they will get over all this, but I can well imagine it will get silly. The more obviously modified vehicles will get caught first, then I expect they'll move on to whatever they can get their hands on. A Q-plate isn't the end of the story. Once they've caught all the modified vehicles, got them stripped of their identity and classified as something else, then they can apply further restrictions. How about only being allowed to use your vehicle on certain days, to go to and from a show or special event? These are the kind of things that are happening now in Europe (Belgium for example) and are on the cards for us over here. Mike
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Current vehicle: Mountfield Mirage 3.5hp (18" cut)
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,458
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A Q-plate isn't the end of the story. Once they've caught all the modified vehicles, got them stripped of their identity and classified as something else, then they can apply further restrictions. How about only being allowed to use your vehicle on certain days, to go to and from a show or special event? These are the kind of things that are happening now in Europe (Belgium for example) and are on the cards for us over here. Mike They can curse word off with that one. I drive my modified car as my only working vehicle almost daily. And I intend to for as long as there is fuel to power it. Have you any links to what is actually happening in belgium? I'm not aware of the restrictions.
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Whats the point in all of this? Theres no intent to decieve or break the law. Who is losing out by modifying and enjoying their car? Why does the DVLA feel the need to enforce such red tape, or are they simpy enforcing new guidelines that are intended for another area of society (perhaps criminals?) and hot rodders e.t.c are falling foul.
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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This is not a new law or piece of legislation it is 10 years old neither is it aimed at just hot rods any car that has been modified over the points allowance since 97 should of been subject to SVA . I was involved with an sva on a standard motorcycle last year it failed miserably. an SVA is much tougher than any mot burying your head in the sand wont make this go away unfortunately
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Right, I don't think bolt on mods count for "unmodified body shell"
As for RatDat's coment about who is to say what is original and not, well, thats easy. A DVLA recognised expert will. They already have these in place. Certain approved clubs and automotive historians can authenticate vehicles. Nobody else can. If the inspector says its wrong, you can go to one of these experts and they will adjudicate. However I heard a story about a guy who brought a model A Ford roadster in to make a rod of it. He bought a complete stocker to start with but there was something the inspector didn't like about it or for some reason he had to go to the DVLA qualified expert who was a Model A flat cap, who knew this guy was going to rod the thing so he refused to help him!
You cant just get "the owners club" or "some info off the internet" it has to be one of their nomnated/registered/approved specialists.
Apparently the reason for all this is to "protect the consumer". I mean, theres a terrible problem with old Harry going off down town and buying what he thinks is a perfectly stock standard Ford Anglia and getting home and too his horror discovering its actually a big block gasser with a tube axle and ladder bar'd 9" locker. I mean, imagine how easy it would be to make that mistake. And the mileage may not be accurate on the odometer either.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Of course, the Q-plates will make it easy for criminals to identify cars which probably have valuable parts installed. And being criminals, they will get away with it as the police are too busy shafting ordinary citizens. F*cking sickening.
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425ci
Part of things
Posts: 518
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Have you any links to what is actually happening in belgium? I'm not aware of the restrictions. Sorry, I can't find the link. It cropped up in a discussion about traffic regulations on another forum. That aside, I am aware of this being the case in Germany. Historic status for a vehicle results in all sorts of restrictions on its use. For example, having to notify the authorities in advance of its intended use on the road (to get to a show for example), then having to use the shortest and most direct route there and back. All this nonsense is intended for us too, as part of the so-called harmonization of EU traffic regulations. It remains to be seen when this will affect us. We have got it very easy over here at the moment, and thankfully there are a lot of people working their arses off behind the scenes in our interests. Mike
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Current vehicle: Mountfield Mirage 3.5hp (18" cut)
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We have got it very easy over here at the moment, and thankfully there are a lot of people working their arses off behind the scenes in our interests. Is there any way we can get involved / help / lend moral support?
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As for RatDat's coment about who is to say what is original and not, well, thats easy. A DVLA recognised expert will. They already have these in place. Certain approved clubs and automotive historians can authenticate vehicles. So for obscure stuff like Datsuns and odd J cars,.. it'll be people like RatDat authenticating his own vehicles?? Because I'm sure someone at the DVLA wouldn't know a modified pillarless Datsun 330 from an unmodified one, for things like gear box, running gear etc. (engine and suspension mods would stand out,.... but they are only 3 points all put together).
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425ci
Part of things
Posts: 518
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We have got it very easy over here at the moment, and thankfully there are a lot of people working their arses off behind the scenes in our interests. Is there any way we can get involved / help / lend moral support? It's all in hand. The NSRA for example are heavily involved in consultation with the DVLA and have put forward proposals in response to the DVLA's initial proposals. I think we can at least rest assured that if anything is going to happen to benefit us, all that can be done is being done at the moment. That is with regard to modified vehicles and the DVLA proposals. The harmonization of EU traffic regulations is a different matter, but that is being countered elsewhere, according to what I have read. Mike
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Current vehicle: Mountfield Mirage 3.5hp (18" cut)
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well if this all starts with testers and being inspected at shows, don't bling up your nice new parts. make em look like curse word .cover them all with chassis black.if you change your rear axle don't contrast colour it,paint it satin black and dribble a bit of oil out of the drain plug. if you weld a new brackets on,don't chrome it shutz it . i cant see them going mad on lowered motors as long as you havnt changed the function of your sus, i.e. changing from mcstruts to wishbones. your not modifying by changing your inserts and springs as there consumables but you may be buggered if you go to coilovers.
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"quote hairnet"
I'm not paying nine pound for a pi$$!
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J.P
Posted a lot
I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Posts: 1,175
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Scandelous - But its exactly what i expect of the Government.
Just disscussed this with my brother and we concluded that if we don't be a complete a*se in public places etc and keep the 'driving' for the open road we would be fine, but since it looks like they'll be checking shows etc I'm buggered.
Did i ever tell you i didnt actually buy a new shell for the Mini and adjustable camber was an option for Flame Red ltd ed?!
Back to the what constitutes a modification. I assume fitting straight cut gears, if still in a standard 'box would be fine? Reboring should be fine too? And dropping in a bigger engine of the same type? I.E swapping a 998 for a 1275?
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,937
Club RR Member Number: 71
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"Blimey," said a man speaking from the Soviet Union in the 1970s. "Your regime is really oppressive". It all seems like a sneaky way of getting tax free cars off the road. Especially if they are being made more suitable for everyday use. That Nail Hit On Head The It Re-arrange the above.......... This is probably a major driver in the process after all the idea of historic vehicle free road tax was to allow classics to be occasionaly used.................. oooops ;D
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It really is great to know that the NSRA is working hard it is. i know we get hot under the collar but what can we do as individuals. we are already slaves to the grind (and i'm not talking lowered chariots here). really some of us are lucky if we have an afternoon to fit some new bits to make our recycled old cars, cope with modern times and horror have some fun. We don't have the time, money or power to fight the law makers, but my support is there when needed. will really look to join soon. Britain is likely to have all the good and clever people leave IMO, cant see any 'Great' myself at the mo. hate to be a negoid but the future looks curse word from where i'm sitting. some of our careers are also at stake cos of this. And how many Q cars will there be?! people in sleepers will be saluting at each other on the roads, and like bb said thugs will a big bold arrow hovvering above your car!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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