Bracey
Part of things
Posts: 208
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I am all in favour of decent replicas. It gives us mere peasants the opportunity to own cars that resemble our dream motors, which we would otherwise not be able to afford. On a similar note, if I had the opportunity to date a girl who looked just like Angelina Jolie and had a fantastic figure, I wouldn't turn her down because she wasn't "the original". Hotwire - are you really telling me you dislike all replicas, no matter how good they are? ....ok, maybe not the best example then
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Last Edit: Jun 29, 2006 0:40:51 GMT by Bracey
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You also have a far greater chance of owning a decent replica than an Original....... That, in a nutshell, is exactly why I don't like them... There are things that should be beyond the means of most people, even very rich people. Its this whole must-have-it-now culture that I dislike, can't find a real GT40 for sale? Just build a car that looks like it. Can't afford to or are afraid to run and race a real GT40? Just build a car that looks like it. Want to rob a great classic of its soul? Just build a car that looks like it. Personally I can't stomach 99% of replica's either (not counting race reps but I'll get to that). There's just something missing, I don't know what it is, but that charisma, the soul, the class, the mystique that makes the original so special in my eyes. I agree with this statement. It's not a quantifiable thing that is missing from these cars. They look the same, they have great engineering and someone has obviously put a lot of blood sweat and tears into them,... but they are missing something.
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Hotwire, unless you have owned both - or certainly driven both - i think its hard for you to say the replica is missing 'something'. much of the soul of a car comes from a) ownership (as in little quirks that you notice over time) and especially b) the driving experience
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Hotwire, unless you have owned both - or certainly driven both - i think its hard for you to say the replica is missing 'something'. much of the soul of a car comes from a) ownership (as in little quirks that you notice over time) and especially b) the driving experience Not really,.. I've never owned a Mk1 golf and I certainly don't own Danny Allen's Mk1 ... but I'm able to form an opinion on both of them. It's the way that Paddy Hopkirk's mini has more of a mystique about it than a car that is a nut and bolt copy of Paddy Hopkirk's mini. It's about history. Another example: there are 18 ERAs .. but I prefer Romulous and Remus, because they have a more interesting history.
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Lots of replicas are built as a ‘homage’ to great cars, by skilled engineers and with lots of money spent. The result is very often a superb car in its own right. Stratos’s, GT40’s, and so on, these are not cheap cars to build a good one but people do and constantly raise the standard. Whats the problem with someone doing that then? It strikes me as a great way of showing your enthusiasm for a certain model.
As long as no-one tries to fool anyone else about whether it is ‘an original’ or not theres no problem surely. There are loads of amazing cars out there, proper feats of engineering, historical research, and sheer skill, which happen to be replicas, its mad to dismiss these cars ‘because’ they are reps of something.
I think its nothing to do with ‘history’ at all because (as far as I am aware) no-one who has built a replica has ever claimed to have replicated the history that goes with its ‘subject’. If you think that’s what these folk are trying to do I think you have misunderstood them. Its just folk finding a way to show their enthusiasm for a certain model.
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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Replicas are not the real thing. Thats undeniable.
AC Cars was successfully sued by Shelby for building unauthorised copies. Its a Shelby Cobra built by AC not an AC Cobra folks and don't you forget it.
You can get all the bits to turn your '65 Mustang into a Shelby GT350. You can take a Mk1 Escort 1100 and turn it into a convincing Mexico or RS2000. Where thats wrong is if you try and sell it as such.
Now if I wanted a RS2000 genuine car I could just about afford one if I tried. If I wanted a RS2000 looking car but with a V8 in it or a Zetec then I'd start with a plane jane model and work from there. No sense in messing a real one up. Same with a nice car I waslooking at in PHR, which s a pretty hard core track style '65 Mustang. Its a base model but its in GT350H colours. Yoou wouldn't cut up a real GT350H to do that, but I'm not slamming the guy for making it a clone on the outside.
Now on the business of replicas... Well its an established scene and theres even some replicas which are collectible in their own right. Theres a club for Challenger (E Type) kits and so forth. If I was goig to make a pro-street E Type I think I'd probably start with the lighter GRP repro cat. If I wanted an E Type I'd start with a real Jag.
As for the Cobras and GT40s. No way can I afford a real one and no way will I ever. Even a good finished relica is hard dosh to find these days. Whether it has the soul of the original is debateable as to what you consider "soul". I'd say not. Same as a Mk1 Escort 1100 with a hot crossflow doesn't have the soul of being a real Mexico.
But... The point is its a nice car. Its not as nice a car as the original but its still a nice car. Unless its badly built or a badly concieved rep. I'd rather drive a Cobra kit than a Mondeo for the same money.
This whole arguement used to get a little heat in hot rod circles with people who have steel bodies rods callinng people whho built hot rods with GRP bodies "kit cars not hot rods". Its pointless snobbery. "Steel is real" and all that, but how likely am I to even find a '41 Willys coupe original car - they were rare enough when new! So I'd happily stick a GRP Willys replica body on a chassis and build me a gasser from there. OK, the guy who's scoured the earth and paid good dough to buy an orignal steel one out of a farmers barn in Oklahoma gets more kudos for that, and its a more interesting story than "I paid Willysworks and they sent me one freight" but if mines built nice and his is build badly mines still the nicer gasser? Or is it?
You want a '32 you can get a steel body from Brookville, but is steel real then? Theres peole who say not. And they are probably right. But when so many hot rods use ASR rails, chevy engines, superbell axle, Curries rear end... whats real there anyway?
Anyone not driving a boring modern stocker gets their first tiock in the "He's probably OK" checklist from me.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Anyone not driving a boring modern stocker gets their first tiock in the "He's probably OK" checklist from me. This is of course a given,..
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I think its nothing to do with ‘history’ at all because (as far as I am aware) no-one who has built a replica has ever claimed to have replicated the history that goes with its ‘subject’. If you think that’s what these folk are trying to do I think you have misunderstood them. Its just folk finding a way to show their enthusiasm for a certain model. They are getting the history and reputation by proxy surely. Okay I've got a story of how I came to this view point. I REALLY REALLY REALLY want a Chevron B6 : Pretty much more than any other car. My dad took a series of photographs of one from various angles so that it would be possible to get the proportions and measurements to build a replica. This was something I fully intended to do at some point. However I realised, even if I did it all correctly with all the correct parts, which are relatively easy to get. I'd wouldn't have a Chevron B6, I'd have a car I built that looked like a Chevron B6, that sounded and possibly drove like a Chevron B6, but was not actually a Chevron B6. I wouldn't be lying to anyone else because I'd be telling them I build a replica.. however I'd be lying to myself, because I wouldn't actually own the car I really wanted. Essentially it comes down to why settle for something? I'd rather spend the rest of my life striving to get a genuine Chevron B6 than build a 100% replica right now. As a side note really don't come up for sale very often (rarer than genuine GT40s ): www.race-cars.com/carsold/chevron/b6dbe8/b6dbe8ss.htm
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I remember the original discussion with David on the Japan trip - he is just a snob! ;D
In my opinion if a replica is built to acheive an unobtainable driving experience then it is OK, but if it's built to pose then it's not. A quality built GT40 rep with a mid-mounted 302 is always gonna be a great car, but a MR2, Fiero or 240Z built into a Ferrari replica is just a chest wig.
A Beetle based Lambo replica with fake patina and slammed over a set of Fuchs would be ironically cool.
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Replicas are not the real thing. Thats undeniable. AC Cars was successfully sued by Shelby for building unauthorised copies. Its a Shelby Cobra built by AC not an AC Cobra folks and don't you forget it. Heard that before, and I've always wondered how on earth he managed that, seeing as the body, chassis & suspension was AC's (all designed by John Tojeiro). Suing for use of the Cobra name, fair enough, but the body design
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Last Edit: Jun 29, 2006 9:42:22 GMT by Paul H
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