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May 24, 2011 21:23:23 GMT
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^^^WRONG!
That's where you are NOT listening to ACE. They do not provide a voice for you.
YOU MUST DO THAT.
ACE has time and time again warned people against complacency, and the British motoring hobby variety of complacency is some of the world's WORST complacency I've ever seen. It's like you're emerging from some kind of Stalinist epoch and just discovered you are free to take legal public action.
Lists and lists of what-ifs and limpwristed fear of appearing OTT. LOL! Tell that to any number of dozens of HIGHLY effective citizen special interest groups who demand, rally, poke, prod, editorialize, make MP office visists, demonstrate, propose legislation, form alliances, and go right into the fray - all legally.
Clues on how retail politics work are not on websites or purchased with a Buy It Now on ebay. It is a confrontational, educational, long, drawn-out, draining, matter of exercising FORCE. You use FORCE to tighten lug nuts and fasten your pants in the morning. You also use FORCE to achieve legal peaceful political change.
Car politics is no damned different, my friend.
I did it for a living up on Capitol Hill, and in Columbus at the statehouse. I am a professional at it. I raised money. I wrote grants. I organized sweeps of politicians' offices with pre-arranged meetings. We formed multi-industry alliances. And we sure as HELL didn't wring our hands about "appearing OTT."
Second place = First Loser.
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Last Edit: May 24, 2011 21:25:26 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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May 24, 2011 22:36:10 GMT
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A load of American motivational twaddle Yeah, and the French burn sheep in ports. Your way of doing things may well work in America (or even some of Europe) but all it will do here is get people's backs up. That's nothing to do with "seeming OTT" or being "afraid", it's a simple matter of differing cultures. Edited to add: as for ACE "giving a voice", I assure you I'm perfectly capable of using my own voice on this, or any other matter. ACE do a very good job indeed of raising awareness of issues and, by the research they do and the questions they ask, they make those in power aware of the concerns of ordinary enthusiasts. It's then up to the enthusiasts to follow that up but, by finding out who to ask, and asking, ACE give a voice to those questions. Obviously your American ways don't stretch to extending courtesy to someone you've just been on the edge of an argument with by acknowledging their value. No wonder we let you colonials go all those years ago
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May 24, 2011 23:16:11 GMT
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Ah, I see. The old patented "This is Earth" and "You're on Mars" theory. That's always the convenient retreat of those who think human motivations are vastly unrecognizable from one western country (or even subdivision) to another. Many's the British scholar who has stated it is a pity there wasn't a proper rebellion and a refit with a constitution. You're stuck with wigs, pomp, class barriers, and Lords and all that horseshit. Yet the emulation of Yank car culture with rebel flag regalia, HD pap, bobby sox, Am Graffiti, and all the rest is all over the UK. How about emulating the good old fashioned Yank assertiveness for your right to own and drive what you like (you know, instead of just the T-shirt and Vans shoes)?
PS: Lobbying orgs don't put themselves out there as "The Voice", and ACE don't lobby anyway (they track legislation and seek to get it interpreted/implemented in as hobby-friendly a way as possible). A pro lobbyist in putting together a plan for popular action, lets the great unwashed speak for themselves. Votes, money, fear - that's what motivates politicians, sonny boy.
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Last Edit: May 24, 2011 23:21:49 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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May 24, 2011 23:31:43 GMT
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You really don't get it, do you? The British public as a whole do not like "troublemakers". The maverick standing uypo for his Freedom (deliberate capital F) may be a cultural icon over there, but over here most people have little sympathy for them except in movies. American style campaigning on behalf of what they see as a group of slightly odd people who drive old / modified cars and already get special dispensations to do so in a lot of cases will, if anything, get their backs up and a politician who is then seen to "cave in" to that group will lose far more votes than they could hope to gain from the car enthusiasts. Seeing as they also stand to gain money by hitting the old car crowd (whether car tax or inspection fees) it becomes a no-brainer for anyone motivated by votes and money. Hit the troublemakers, and hit them hard. The Daily Mail readers (who're fed up with Dwayne next door and his modified car anyway) will then all vote for you and you can collect extra taxes into the bargain. Incidentally, Sonny, I'm probably old enough to be your dad, if not your gran'pappy and I've lived my entire life over here so understand the British psyche far better than you do
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Cheers, Monk. Stick to your preconceptions. Stay with the attitude that little Britons better stay in "their place" and "do as The Man tells." Very condescending actually.
That they are all Dwaynes and all driving boso twaddle.
I think there's a major opportunity to bring huge FORCE and momentum to this effort. By pouring in an alliance of suppliers, car owners, shops and fitters, manufacturers, retail stores, tourism venues, racetracks, museums, and on and on and so forth. And it would possibly result in long term protection for the car hobbyist.
Bump the old man in the bowler hat if he stereotypes car hobbyists. You would CAVE IN to that mentality. Well, sonny boy, I would CHANGE that mentality.
I'd use all media and all tactics which are legal to change that attitude. Not overnight. But I wouldn't wait. You've already diddled WAY TOO LONG in the UK, and now it's clench time.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Your telling us to fight the power and trying to insult those that don't seem to agree with your gun ho way of thinking, yet you don't even know what you are trying to fight against. You say that the man is trying to take away our rights to drive what we like, but you have no evidence that this is even the case.
Every post I see from you on this subject seems to be about protesting, but protesting about what? As far as i'm aware the only advantage of a car being classed as historic is that it gets free road tax? no ones trying to take away anyone's right to drive what they like, they just seem to he saying that if you want that free tax you car is going to have to meet stricter requirements than at present.
Feel free to show me exactly where it says that all 30 year old cars that do not meet these proposed requirements will be banned from using the roads? because as far as I can see it hasn't been said?
It seems like you are more concerned with insulting people and trying to stir up a fight than you are with the actual proposals being put forth. I posted in here as I had some questions about the subject, but your ignorant ranting about how you perceive this county and the people that live here has taken the attention away from the subject at hand, well done.
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Last Edit: May 25, 2011 7:42:25 GMT by roccoguy
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Sorry to bump this one up again, but I've had another reply today;
Dear Oliver,
Many thanks for your e-mail and apologies for the delay in responding. I receive a large volume of correspondence on a daily basis and it can sometimes take longer than I would like to respond.
I can understand that you have concerns that you have about FIVA's historic vehicle definition, although I am not aware that there is any European Parliament concerted effort to reach a common historical vehicle definition at present.
Having been in contact with DVLA regarding the current classification of historic vehicles it does seem that FIVA's proposed definition does differ from the current situation for taxing historic vehicles in the UK. I would therefore certainly want to look in detail at any proposed harmonization legislation if any does get proposed through the normal legislative process, and would question whether harmonization in this regard is in line with the EU's commitment to subsidiarity. I would also always advocate the greatest possible consultation for any new legislation.
I have also let our Green transport advisor know your concerns and we will continue to monitor the situation.
Many thanks again for raising this important issue with me and please do keep me updated on any developments.
Kind Regards,
Keith Taylor
Office of Keith Taylor, Green MEP for SE England
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Left hand / right hand. Here you have a definite reply from a member of the Parlimentary Historic vehicle group stating it IS being discussed and that a fresher description has been put forward. One that STILL doesn't take into account modified historics though . At least we appear to be getting their attention. One of the latest MP replies, please note condition 'b' in the new proposals that ARE being discussed as shown by this letter, contrary to other replies which say 'nothing to worry about' Dear Mr ***** Thank you for contacting me regarding the definition of historical vehicles. I would like to assure you that I share your concerns as I too am a classic car owner and enthusiast. As a member of the European Parliament's Historic Vehicle Group, I would like to put your mind at rest that this proposition did not have the full support of the group. First of all I do not believe that we need a European wide definition for a historical vehicles or classic car. This should be the sole responsibility of the individual member-states. As you rightly mentioned we have a very effective mechanism in the UK for dealing with our motoring heritage. Secondly, the prohibition on the daily use of classic vehicles is absolutely preposterous. A classic car should be defined on its cultural significance and condition and not on the level of use. I enjoy driving my classic car at the weekend but also during the week for everyday activities. It is undoubtedly a classic car regardless of my usage. I do however believe that vehicles should be preserved and maintained in the classic condition with no major changes to the original specifications. I do accept that there can be certain exceptions such as the modification of certain safety features such as modern brakes, electric ignition etc. I have spoken with Mr. Bernd Lange, the Chair of the Historic Vehicle Group, to express these concerns and in a recent letter to Commissioner Kallas, he forwarded the new, revised proposals from the EPHVG. The definition proposed includes only three criteria. The vehicle must be: a.. at least 30 years old b.. preserved and maintained in a historically correct condition c.. in good condition for safe use and good engine running I hope this has put your mind at ease. Rest assured that I will continue to monitor the situation and I will act to make sure that no definition is enacted that will jeopardise the activity we love. Yours sincerely Robert Sturdy"
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So if it meets the DVLA's 8 point rule, does that count as historically correct? ;D Aside from the issue of major modifications, it's very good to see support at that level for daily use though.
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Yet still no mention of what happens if your car is over 30 years old and doesn't conform to the new definition of a historical vehicle. To most users on here I guess that is the important question as most of the classics here are modified.
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If you take the time to look at the initial thread on this subject you will see that is ACEs concern especially if you read the simplified definition above. b.. preserved and maintained in a historically correct conditionwww.the-ace.org.ukYou can't expect them to make allowances for you if you don't let them know you exist!
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Last Edit: Jun 8, 2011 8:19:12 GMT by kapri
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mine
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75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door 84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door 78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van 98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo 04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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