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Heck, you boys do this right, and I can see an "Annual Take An MP To Work In An Old Car Day". Volunteers with nice clean cars are assigned to meet an MP at his residence and transport him/her to Parliament on one special day each year, just to remind them of the legacy and fun of classic car ownership. What a nice way to show them:
a) Old cars are useful as real transportation. b) They are safe and MOT'd. c) They have style and verve. d) People notice them (what Pol doesn't love THAT?) e) Old car owners come in all shapes, colors, and ages. f) When they get dropped off at Parliament, they'll see nobody died and the planet isn't suddenly brown from an Ozone Hole.
I have a million of these ideas.
Wake up, people!
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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chaseracer
Part of things
If you have to ask why, you will never understand...
Posts: 597
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/\/\ This idea, I like...
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I'm concocting replies to my MEPs.
So far I have thanked them for their responses which I am reading and considering.
Its about being in a dialogue and playing it like the lobby guys do
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Akku, that is the right approach for sure. We could really do with the financial facts and figures around the use of classics, as well as modifying and racing of older cars. Money is the language of politics. Sadly.
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Apr 29, 2011 11:14:18 GMT
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FBHVC have done that once and are in the process of redoing and asking for online input. Their last survey covered 250,000 users which leaves about 80,000 ,of those registered as Historic who had no input.
Bear in mind that ACE conservatively estimated modified car users at over 2,000,000 using marketing facts based around proven magazine sales. So there views to be considered if a rolling Historic classification were to be reintroduced for vehicles conforming to FIVAs very tight definition.
FIVA admit to the existence of other older cars that do not conform to their regulations but have made no allowances in their proposals as it is not their concern.
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Apr 29, 2011 12:17:12 GMT
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Bear in mind that ACE conservatively estimated modified car users at over 2,000,000 using marketing facts based around proven magazine sales. So there views to be considered if a rolling Historic classification were to be reintroduced for vehicles conforming to FIVAs very tight definition. I'm surprised that we are so many! When parallels were drawn with the fox hunting campaign I had thought that ours was a much smaller movement which didn't carry as much weight as far as votes go (because let's face it, votes are what politicians care about). If there are 2 million votes to be won or lost then I'm more confident about the impact we can have. If we go about it in a civilised, courteous but firm, organised and insistent manner then I think we'll make progress.
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Apr 29, 2011 13:18:38 GMT
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Using stats to justify personal freedom is an intellectual trap.
How much "commerce" or "gross GDP" is the result of freedom of speech? And, if you even could determine that number, would the stats be the main argument you'd put forward to keeping that freedom?
Obviously not.
Once you trot down the road of stats as your main justification, you're into a spiralling downwards losing game. Because old cars will always be getting older and less and less relevant in modern commerce. This is in fact one of the EU's major arguments. You don't want to go there. Best that will get is some sort of sunset strategy for end-of-the-roaders. Or exculpation for museum-level OE restorations or preservations. 99% of everybody else will get tossed overboard. That is the current plan.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Apr 30, 2011 16:33:11 GMT
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I'm working on the basis that whatever argument you can concoct against old or modified cars you can trump by saying its worse for bicycles, or boxing. And until they ban bicycles or boxing they can curse word off. Effectively.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Blow the cobwebs off and bring this back up with fresh info found by the ACE team OK, totally different organisation ' scaremongering' now www.prewarcar.com/magazine/press-releases/charter-of-turin-015311.htmlRead what FIVAs intentions are written by their Chairman. Excerpts taken from the above article "The acceptance and application of a future set of UNESCO criteria adapted for the requirements of our "mobile heritage" will separate the wheat from the chaff and make the whole system of "historic vehicles" more transparent. Fakes or vehicles that suffered extensive changes to their engineering and appearance that their historic reference is lost would not stand any chance of being registered as historic vehicles. The Turin Charter is grounded on experience from everyday practice. After successfully passing international review within FIVA, the Charter will become the internationally binding reference for the historic vehicles movement." Does it get more black and white that what I've written above in bold using FIVAs own words ? If anyone is missing the info needed this means modified = not historic ...EVER . If not allowed in Historic then how can it be on the road as there is no other class . Not forgetting that FIVA also want 30 year old Rolling Historic reintroduced.
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Last Edit: May 3, 2011 17:09:27 GMT by kapri
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Interesting - thanks Kev. It gives us a better grounding to work from, IMO, to campaign for a non-historic over-30 taxation class. But we do have to campaign. Time to put together a press release to distribute to all the classic and modified car magazines and car clubs in the country, IMO. Letters to the national weekend motoring sections might be a good plan too.
I'd happliy put some time towards a basic draft of what to say, but I'm writing my thesis this week so I'm a little busy...
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,928
Club RR Member Number: 174
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It just means anything that won't class as historic will have to go through an IVA to be put on the road. Definitley worth fighting, as it basically means that every dodgy registered rod on a tax free log book will have to go through the test.
Matt
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Just following on from Kev's post..
People on other sites have come back with the response "So what, just don't register it as Historic, pay your VED and you have no problems. They won't legislate you off the road."
To turn that argument around, look at the Frankfurt LEZ. Since 1 january 2010, only vehicles displaying a yellow or green badge have been allowed to enter the Frankfurt low emission zone (Umweltzone). From 2012, only vehicles displaying a green badge will be allowed to enter the low emission zone.
The vehicles listed below can freely enter low emission zones (Umweltzone):
Mobile machinery and equipment Plant machinery Agricultural and forest traction vehicles Two- and three-wheeled vehicles Ambulances, doctor’s cars Cars for disabled people (aG, H, Bl) Vintage cars marked as H or 07 vehicles Vehicles with special rights under § 35 of the German traffic regulations (e.g. police, fire, emergency and street-cleaning vehicles) Germany army/NATO vehicles
The one we are interested in here is H or 07 Vehicles. Vintage cars (Historics).
So, you can still drive in the zone if you have a 'Defined' historic.
But, should the EU adopt the FIVA definition (Which currently is the only one being actively presented to them) Fakes or vehicles that suffered extensive changes to their engineering and appearance that their historic reference is lost would not stand any chance of being registered as historic vehicles.
Therefore, if you don't fit the FIVA definition, you cannot register as a Historic, so there is now a part of Germany where you cannot drive.
There are 40 LEZ's currently in Germany, with more on the table.
The point I'm making here is that the 'Legislate off the road' does not come from Primary legislation, but from 'Secondary' legislation, whereby you are trawled up in one net because you weren't saved by the other one.
No need for inspections or 'Knowledge'of the vehicle you are driving just ANPR, as used for congestion charging and the London LEZ.
Just something to think about over you Toast and Tea...
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just had a pretty good reply from my MP..
Dear Ray Smith Thank you for your email. I am an owner myself of a "historic vehicle" and a member of the all-Party Parliamentary Group on historic vehicles. Thus I am somewhat surprised not to have heard of any suggestion from the European Parliament to change the definition of historic vehicles or restricting the use of historic vehicles.
Let me discuss this matter with Greg Knight who chairs the all-Party Group on historic vehicles to see what we need to do on this issue.
Best wishes Tony
does seem a nice fellow..
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Last Edit: May 4, 2011 17:18:26 GMT by ray900tap
1970 Beetle 1600
1973 Rover P6 2000SC
1993 Audi 80 Avant 1.9TDI
1996 Transit SWB pop top camper, 2L Twink
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bxer
Part of things
Posts: 457
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Please tell us you really signed your letters "Mr Akku Awesome Dude Lovegod" and "Jam Master Ku" ;D
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they just know. I don't need to.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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i got letter back from house of commons (local mp)saying it was being looked into. zilch from mep's so far.
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I've had it on my to-do list to write back this week but events have overtaken me. I'll report back when i do
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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doobie
Part of things
Posts: 271
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Blow the cobwebs off and bring this back up with fresh info found by the ACE team If anyone is missing the info needed this means modified = not historic ...EVER . If not allowed in Historic then how can it be on the road as there is no other class . Not forgetting that FIVA also want 30 year old Rolling Historic reintroduced. So they are going to inspect every over 30 year old car already registered in historic class to check if it matches the new critera then?? and then check every car that becomes 30 years old under the new 30 year rolling rule and if it doesnt meet the "rules" scrap it??? Or will they just allow older "non historic" cars to be registered under the normal car tax regime??. and collect the extra revenue generated. Answers on a postcard...........
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diff
South East
Posts: 1,169
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Response we got yesterday. Seems this one knows a little bit about whats going on;
Dear Mr and Mrs Travis,
Thank you for your email regarding FIVA’s presentation to the Second Meeting of the European Parliament’s Historic Vehicles Group.
My Conservative colleague Malcolm Harbour was present at this presentation at the regular breakfast meeting of MEPs at which issues relating to historic vehicles are discussed. This is an important forum and indicates how seriously issues relating to older vehicles are considered by MEPs.
The proposal for a standard form of “historic vehicles” definition is linked to concessions in a number of EU countries on vehicle excise duty and annual safety and emission testing. There is a view that a common approach might be beneficial and also encourage those countries who do not yet have such concessions to make them available. An agreed definition might also resolve issues related to differing treatment of customs duties on imported “historic” vehicles.
However, the case for a harmonised definition to be used as a standard by EU Member States in their domestic legislation has not yet been made and the idea remains at the discussion stage.
None of the MEPs present considered that the adoption of an agreed definition of an historic vehicle would discriminate in any respect against “older” vehicles that might not meet this classification. There was certainly no discussion about any “restrictions” to be imposed on the use of vehicles over 30 years old that would prevent their use as a means of daily transport.
As far as we are aware, this is not on the policy agenda of the European Union, and there would be strong objections from the MEPs involved to such a plan. We will, however, ask for further assurances from the European Commission in this respect.
As you may be aware, the UK Government will shortly be consulting on a possible test exemption for older vehicles. However, the Transport Minister Mike Penning has made it clear that restrictions on use would not be part of any test concession arrangements. I can assure you that the UK Conservative MEPs would not agree to any EU proposals that would impose usage restrictions on well maintained older vehicles that meet the annual vehicle testing requirements for safety and environmental performance.
Yours sincerely,
Geoffrey Van Orden MEP
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tri
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,572
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Got this from my local MP. Nothing from all the MEP's I wrote to yet.
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I forgot how to retro...
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