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FWIW:
Dear xxxx
I think that there is an issue here which concerns me. There is a feeling in the "society" of owners and enthusiasts of older cars that we are under fire from government, both national and European with legislation and regulations often under debate or discussion which would restrict or even curtail what is for many of us as much a way of life as it is a hobby.
The insidious element of this is when this is presented as some form of consumer protection. I do not need to be "protected" from making my own informed choices. I don't think anyone ever bought a car more than 30 years old and was then in some way shocked to discover it did not have the same features and performance as a brand new car, nor that it would require more preventative maintenance.
Also ridiculous is the suggestion that older cars put people at risk. My 1987 car may not have air bags or seat belt pre-tensioners but I put myself at more risk on a train or public service bus as none of these have any passenger seat belts at all. I will not accept any legislation aimed at restrictions on use on older cars based on safety while people are still allowed to ride motorbikes, scooters, bicycles or be pedestrians!
The older car scene directly supports hundreds of thousands of jobs. Many businesses exist purely to service the owners of older cars. If, as the tone of many regulations we hear talked about, our cars are turned into some form of museum pieces then these jobs will be lost and we will be destroying another intrinsically British way of life.
I am happy to have my car MOT tested once a year (in fact I am horrified at suggestions this could be turned to a two year interval) and I am more than happy to have my work examined by a trained professional to prove my repairs and modifications have been done safely. What I object to is the suggestion that some burocrats somewhere remote from me can legislate and regulate how I chose to maintain the car (by use of non-authentic replacement parts or modifications) when the language and contradictory statements which come from these bodies prove they know little of practical value about the ordinary men and women who are out there on their driveways and in their garages working on, maintaining and improving older cars.
Best regards
The Almighty Emperor of Ku, Vanquisher of the Armies of Bland, Pleaser of the Many Women of Gasmland.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Thank you for your email. I believe that the chances of the UK leaving Europe would be a 1 out of 10 on the scale, assuming there are no further treaty changes. I believe to compare the EU to the USSR as an institution is somewhat strained. The USSR was a single-party political system dominated by the Communist Party, clearly if you look at the workings of the EU parliament there are a number of parties, including our own European Conservatives and Reformists. The USSR was also a highly centralized state with a planned economy. Some may argue your analogy between the EU and USSR is much more valid here, what with the Parliament, Council and Commission all located within Brussels and all with a high degree of power. However, geographical centralisation is not in the same sphere as political centralisation. The principle of subsidiarity, which the UK Conservative Party and the ECR group strongly support and champion, recognises that many decisions need to be taken at local and national levels. Some may argue that the EU has a planned economy, but I can again assure you that the economic policies of the EU cannot be compared to that of Stalin's 5 year plan. You may have read in the press about the Treaty of Lisbon? While I cannot support the Lisbon Treaty in its entirety, I think that this document, which has been ratified by all 27 Member States, is not comparable to the Treaty of the Creation of the USSR and the Declaration of the Creation of the USSR, forming the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics of 1922. We in the ECR recognise that there are many issues which need to be addressed within the EU. For example the review of the Common Agricultural Policy and the review of the Common Fisheries Policy are both coming up on the agenda within the current mandate. Both of these common policies need to be modernised and amended in light of the current problems experienced by both producers and consumers. However I am sure you would agree that butter mountains and milk lakes are a far cry from the famine of the USSR in the late 1920's and the annihilation of the Kulaks. It was after all Margaret Thatcher and the Tory party that worked so closely with The US in bringing down the USSR and communism. The EU has many faults but I think it cheapens the argument for reform and possible withdrawal to make these comparisons! I think we should have a proper, thoughtful debate on this subject and look forward to being able to do so, with a subsequent referendum under the next (non-coalition!) Conservative Government. Yours sincerely Julie Girling MEP Conservative Member for the South West and Gibraltar Could someone translate this don't think they understood the one i sent.
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I'm only guessing at the one you sent her...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Following from Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens' (FIVA) presentation to the Second Meeting of the European Parliament Historic Vehicle Group, I am writing to express my concern regarding the possible implications surrounding the implementation of FIVA's guidelines regarding the definition of Historic Vehicles.
FIVA defines a HISTORIC VEHICLE as a mechanically propelled road vehicle * which is at least 30 years old; * which is preserved and maintained in a historically correct condition; * which is not used as means of daily transport; * and which is therefore a part of our technical and cultural heritage.
This 4 year old survey was of member associations of FIVA across 11 countries and expresses only their views. The other 16 EU member countries have not been consulted or are even aware of this definition being pushed forward as definitive.
There are many vehicles in existence which meet only part of this definition. These vehicles are over 30 years old, and many are preserved and maintained in an historically correct condition, but many of them are in use as a means of daily transport. At present, many of these vehicles in the UK are registered using the 'Historic' taxation class, giving the benefit of a Vehicle Excise Duty rate of Nil with no restrictions on the use of the vehicle.
Also many of the vehicles in more regular use in the UK follow the Green Party ethos of recycling vehicles components and extending the useful life of an existing vehicle. Some may also be upgraded with later engines, creating less pollution than the still comparatively low original power plant. All of this is perfectly legal within the existing UK laws.
I am concerned that the implementation of the FIVA definition of Historic Vehicles may cause restrictions to be imposed on the use of any vehicle over 30 years old - preventing their use as a means of daily transport - so that such vehicles meet the definition of an Historic Vehicle.
FIVA recognises the existence of older vehicles not meeting their definition of Historic Vehicles - the update provided to the FBHVC by the EPPA (FIVA's Lobbying service) states that it is attempting to explain "why historic vehicles should be treated differently to all other vehicles, especially to all other 'older' vehicles".
I appreciate that providing a means for owners of older vehicles to "opt-out" of Historic status would remove the privileges associated with owning an Historic Vehicle - notably the common reduction in the rates of VED paid - but many would welcome the opportunity to use their vehicles as and when they see fit. Even if in daily use their contribution to emissions would be extremely small compared to mileage covered by the huge numbers of modern vehicles.
In fact, in many of the other countries not consulted on this definition they do not have 'Historic' vehicles, just older vehicles that provide daily transport and any proposals for use restrictions would seriously damage their economy.
Any restriction on use - be it a mileage cap, a permit system or detection of regular use by other means - would remove any practical aspect of owning a "classic car" over 30 years old, resulting in vehicles that currently 'earn their keep' during everyday use not being able to do so. This would result in many owners being forced to abandon their hobby due to practical considerations, such as storage space and increased per-mile running costs following the introduction of such restrictions, the values of affected vehicles may be reduced.
Owners of older vehicles like myself preserve a small part of the country's motoring history at our own expense, mainly for our own pleasure but also for the benefit of the general public, and we ask for nothing in return. Many owners form and join clubs to celebrate the history of their vehicles and through these clubs provide support to the community through charity events, galas and motoring shows. By driving our vehicles on a daily basis, we present a rolling trip down memory lane for our fellow motorists, a small nostalgic break in the monotony of modern travel.
I, along with most other classic car owners, ensure that our vehicle/s is/are legal and roadworthy at all times and I believe I take a greater pride in my vehicle than many drivers of more modern vehicles. Vehicles that would not be deemed worthy of a place in a museum or private collection are given another chance to live on in the hands of a genuine enthusiast, who will often spend more than the vehicles market value to maintain it in legal and roadworthy condition. This in turn supports the wide range of classic car spares and restoration businesses - most of which are small firms, of the sort driving the economy in this harsh economic climate.
Any problems with Historic vehicles are self limiting as 'new' vehicles to these older specifications are not being produced and slowly their number will reduce. Also most modern cars will not reach Historic status as repair costs of electronic systems are prohibitively expensive and so many cars will reach EVL before enthusiasts become involved.
I can see no real benefit to restricting the use of older vehicles, only increased red tape with the associated costs and a restriction of personal freedoms that are currently enjoyed by so many. I once again ask that you oppose the imposition of any restrictions to use of older vehicles and allow the classic car movement to both continue its support of small businesses, communities and charities and enjoy the vehicles for what they are.
Thats what i sent and got the reply above
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Could someone translate this don't think they understood the one I sent. I don't think they're replying to the one you sent to be honest I think they've replied to the wrong person.
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1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary.
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tri
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,572
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Thank you for your email. I'm going to ramble on about something completely irrelevant and drop Margaret Thatchers name as if anyone except myself has any fond memories of her.. ahh those were the days. The poor knew their place then. Being trodden on and scoffed at by 'my' 7% of the population. Surely we still have SOMETHING left to sell off if we get re-elected. How about the DVLA? Anyway, Stalin was bad ok? Yours sincerely Julie Girling MEP Conservative Member for the South West and Gibraltar Could someone translate this don't think they understood the one I sent. I think she's been partaking in narcotics.. either that or some UKIP maniac got a letter about Historical motor vehicles ...BTW I wrote to her as well - I'll let you know what I get back.
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Last Edit: May 9, 2011 22:34:45 GMT by tri
I forgot how to retro...
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sounds more like a typical polaticians answer of talking about anything but what the question was. like they do on that pointless bbc prog question time
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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May 10, 2011 12:06:12 GMT
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They want you to limit your activities to penmanship.
Do more.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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May 10, 2011 14:22:00 GMT
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Recieved another one today from a different mep. Thank you for your email. I share your sentiments on this matter and will do all I can (little though it is) to support you. Kind regards, Trevor Colman. Sounds good
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May 10, 2011 17:32:49 GMT
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OK, I suspect the first one was a reply to the wrong person. We've all done that. I'd respond asking what she meant by it, including the text of the original email.
I've had responses again from 2 of mine promising to bring it up, seek more clarification, etc.
We'll see.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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pbottomley
Posted a lot
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isnt for you
Posts: 1,135
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May 10, 2011 18:00:34 GMT
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I have finally got a reply from the MEP office of my local MEP.... all it says is I shall raise it with them... A start I guess?
I have also got the Viva Owners club on board and it will be raised with the V.B.O.A. (Vauxhall Bedford Opel Association) on the 15th. They represent 40 or so clubs and that's a lot of owners, so fingers crossed they click and get on board.
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May 11, 2011 20:41:36 GMT
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The lady who sent me that long partially intelligible ramble says that "the member who raised the question was not satisfied with the answer and has tabled a further question for clarification"
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 11, 2011 21:18:19 GMT
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I have finally got a reply from the MEP office of my local MEP.... all it says is I shall raise it with them... A start I guess? I have also got the Viva Owners club on board and it will be raised with the V.B.O.A. (Vauxhall Bedford Opel Association) on the 15th. They represent 40 or so clubs and that's a lot of owners, so fingers crossed they click and get on board. That's great! If they want more info feel free to PM myself or 1960Zody for a number so we can chat about any queries they may have.
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May 13, 2011 15:18:40 GMT
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I got this today as a follow up
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Dear Alistair,
Thank you for contacting me raising your concerns over FIVA's proposal for a change to the definition of historic vehicles and the implications of the criteria put forward by FIVA for owners of classic cars in the UK.
The issue of an EU-wide definition of historic vehicles has not yet been proposed in any EU legislation. My understanding is that it may be taken up as part of the revision of the Roadworthiness Testing Directive, which will be published by the European Commission in September of this year. Once it is adopted by the European Commission it will come to the European Parliament for consideration by MEPs, at which stage we will have a chance to respond to the legislation being put forward and any potential changes to the definition of historic vehicles.
The revision of the Directive will be subject to a lengthy legislative procedure involving MEPs in the European Parliament and Ministers from the 27 EU countries. When deliberating any legislative proposal, MEPs will listen to a wide array of differing views and there will be many opportunities to put forward positions. In this context I would like to stress that FIVA are just one of many lobbying organisations and that the Historic Vehicles Intergroup is an informal group for MEPs with an interest in historic cars, but it has no formal decision making powers.
Thank you again for writing to me. I will take your views into account, and will keep a close eye on any new developments.
Best wishes
Glenis Willmott MEP
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I'm formulating a suitable response
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 13, 2011 18:55:21 GMT
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Mobile machinery and equipment Plant machinery Agricultural and forest traction vehicles Two- and three-wheeled vehicles Ambulances, doctor’s cars Cars for disabled people (aG, H, Bl) Vintage cars marked as H or 07 vehiclesVehicles with special rights under § 35 of the German traffic regulations (e.g. police, fire, emergency and street-cleaning vehicles) Germany army/NATO vehicles Therefore, if you don't fit the FIVA definition, you cannot register as a Historic, so there is now a part of Germany where you cannot drive. There are 40 LEZ's currently in Germany, with more on the table. The point I'm making here is that the 'Legislate off the road' does not come from Primary legislation, but from 'Secondary' legislation, whereby you are trawled up in one net because you weren't saved by the other one. No need for inspections or 'Knowledge'of the vehicle you are driving just ANPR, as used for congestion charging and the London LEZ. Just something to think about over you Toast and Tea... maybe i'm missing some thing here, but isn't it also a case that normal cars can not enter those zones either? to me that point to if your car isn't registered as historic then it's just classed as a normal car? will it not be a case of if you want your car to be classed as historic it has to meet these reg's, if not it's just classed as a normal car and you have to pay road tax and take it for mot's ect?
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tri
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,572
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May 13, 2011 20:16:40 GMT
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2 more replies.. I think he has a fair point about having ones cake and eating it to be honest. Though the Tax is the very least of my concerns. Very reassuring ending to that letter indeed.
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I forgot how to retro...
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May 13, 2011 20:21:47 GMT
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Last Edit: May 13, 2011 20:23:39 GMT by kapri
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May 23, 2011 14:17:57 GMT
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That's correct, in Germany it would be classed as a normal car , here we have no option to opt out from Historic . Sorry, Aceadvice, but that's simply not true. The current UK VED classifications are based on a number of special classes (such as Historic, PSV and so on) and a general case which includes anything not in a special case - this is what "normal" cars come under. So, unless they specifically legislated to make our cars illegal, losing Historic status because they change the definition would simply revert them all to general vehicles - no "opt out" required. Regarding emissions requirements and so on, these are separate from the VED status and contained in C&U regulations which are (almost) never applied retrospectively - no vehicle is expected to meet a higher technical standard that those when it was built. Which is why a "normal" (ie: not historic) car from, say, 1974, isn't required to meed current safety standards or the latest Cat emissions tests. Incidentally, I'm completely opposed to the idea of an EU definition on this, let alone the one that FIVA have proposed. It would raise the ridiculous situation where someone buys perhaps) the earliest surviving Rolls Royce - clearly a historically important vehicle - but it's historic value is legally denied just because the new owner decides to drive it too often. Allowing legalities to determine what is, or isn't historically important is not only absurd but potentially harmful. Regardless of the above, including inaccurate "scares" in any campaign is a foolish route to take - you'll obviously gain support from natural supporters because of the scare factor, but those outside already sympathetic circles will look, laugh, and likely discount any valid points you're making as those of nut-job conspiracy theorists. Which is very bad PR!
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May 23, 2011 14:36:30 GMT
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Sorry , by virtue of the date of registration it IS an automatic transfer to Historic for those vehicles currently qualifying. If you have an older vehicle which has been off the road since the concession was granted for Historic you are able to tax it as PLG ( if that is how it is shown on it's V5 )but WILL receive a refund and amended logbook and tax disc .
Likewise a vehicle marked as unlicensed , but qualifying as historic, will automatically be put into Historic when registered .
Unless of course a Local Post Office does it as I know of a vehicle which has been taxed as' unlicensed' for the past 4 years !
I will get a letter to that effect for you from Policy Division.
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Last Edit: May 23, 2011 14:51:34 GMT by kapri
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May 23, 2011 14:53:24 GMT
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That's only because it fits the current definition of the Historic class. If the definition changes then that won't be the case any more.
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