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Jul 15, 2009 11:20:29 GMT
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We are NOT small fry if we stand together, somewhere in the region of 2 million of us with trade spends in the billions. In turn we need to focus on making the trade aware of our concerns and getting them to lobby on our behalf. They are by far the worst with no lobbying to ensure a future for their businesses,let alone our hobbies. We at ACE are trying to correct that by rasing awareness, something that you all can do. Next time you buy a part from alarge company ask what their viewsa nd policies are about the future of our hobby / their business, that's all it takes to raise awareness and get the ball rolling ...plus don't forget to tell them about ACE I understand what you are saying , but take into account how the government sudenly go deaf when its somthing they don't want to hear?, Our current government have a tendancy to assume the best for us, with no leeway. I know its off topic but take into account the euro and european union. They wont listen to reason or allow a "real" vote on the outcome of that. Also take into account the graduation its taken to get to this point. They have been working up to this for years, with rule changes. There are countrys in the EU that do not allow modified cars, and obviously theres the greater good aspect (the green movement) where we again become silenced by the likes of greenpeace with there massive oil burning ship telling us we shouldnt burn fossil fuels All the more reason for an organistion like ACE. One of the guiding principals of ACE is that we do not exclued based on vehicle type. Car enthusiasts are car enthusiasts and any body that proposes to talk for them needs to encompas as many areas as it can. Look at the FHBVC and FIVA, they have very strict definitons as to who they can be seen to 'Activelysupport' and this disenfranchises a large numbert of people. We are not saying that the purpose of ACE is to get laws changes or repealed, we've never been in that arena, what we are about is providing a voice, information and assistance to the general car community and attempting to unite as many people as possible. Cruically, we also attempt to present the truth of issues, with references to original documents and avoid speculation where possible. The website piece on Devon and Cornwall police's recent press statement about FPN's for loud exhausts is an example of us getting a tip on a story and going to the source for fuller details before publishing. Even SEMA started with 5 manufacturers.
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Last Edit: Jul 15, 2009 11:36:05 GMT by 1960zody
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Jul 15, 2009 11:25:05 GMT
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Thanks subscribed
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Jul 15, 2009 12:16:47 GMT
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this is a similar situation that I whent through when a sharp eyed police man noticed that I didnt have motorcycle entitlement on my licence, ( lucky for me he let me ride it home ) I have a folder full off corespondance and the outcome is I have to resit my test they are right and I am wrong untill I prove that I passed my test ( a letter from my instructor isnt enough) I have since given up but I still ride my bike without L plates s0d them I say So you passed your test but didn't send off your license? to be honest, it's a bit different mate if the procedure is there and working well but you didn't follow it? Haven't you got a pass sheet somewhere? You want to be really careful with the whole riding without a valid license thing - you'll be in a world of the brown stuff if you have any kind of accident - no license = no valid insurance = pick up the soap in jail!
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Porsche 924 - gone Citroen Saxo VTR - not very retro but I loved it - now gone... MK4 Golf GTi 1.8T - gone but hardly remembered... Mini Cooper S R53 - gone BMW 125d Coupe - gone (mostly sideways)
Ford Focus RS Mk1 - hello low MPGs and "wanna race me" at every set of lights... 1973 BMW 2002 - Twin 40's, 284 Cam, Revolutions, E21 Recaros + more Porsche Cayman 987 3.4S - here and due to cost me more money than I have
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Jul 15, 2009 12:27:37 GMT
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It's only a thought but we need as much publicity as possible - primarily to get a little public sympathy but more importantly, to get an MP on board, even if it is only a fella in suit who wants to get a little publicity for himself. publicity? So that the general public understands the points system? Public sympathy for what? Most of us have effectively been breaking the law for years and now when we are getting caught we want to wiggle out? Thats how the public will see it right down the line. I don't think anyone's going to change existing laws, what we need to campaign for is the fair enforcement of the ones we have and a say in ones which are coming up. the Andy Saunders case points exactly to the sort of shizzle we need to be avoiding. However publicity on this individual case won't help you with a drive train swap or me with a roof chop. Look at fox hunting: in 1997 the Labour electoral manifesto said they would ban it. Effectively everyone who voted labour in 1997 approved the banning of fox hunting and back then they had a HUGE majority. Yet 12 years later all we had was a couple of private members bills and a terrible fudge which has done nothing but alienate both sides of the arguement and allow fox hunting to continue and the Countryside Alliance to get stronger. I bet theres more of us (define "us") than there are of the fox hunters. There are already MPs who are into old cars. There is a House of Commons Classic Car Club and all sorts. This is where the gap between "modified classic" and "retro" starts to open up though. To a lot of people the thought of modifying an older car is putting a Downton head on an A35 or wire wheels on a 4 lug MGB. Don't lets muddy this thread with anti-EU and "this government is Adolf Hitler reborn" rubbish. There is a legislative framework in this country and we need to work within it or we will simply be outside the law and as the law is getting easier to enforce we will put ourselves off the road. Too many people want to just whinge about what they think their rights are and how unfair it is a big nasty policeman stopped them rather than understanding what the law really is and having your fun legally.
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Last Edit: Jul 15, 2009 12:29:37 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 15, 2009 12:33:52 GMT
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So just to check, if we undertake a engine conversion what is the correct procedure? I was under the impression that you should have a SVA test....
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Jul 15, 2009 12:40:52 GMT
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engine swap, to the best of my knowledge is just a case of notifying the DVLA of the change of capacity and engine number. They seem to be asking for cars to be taken to an MOT station to "validate" the fact you have done it but I haven't done one since they apparently started doing this.
SVA is gone now, no longer exists its IVA or BIVA now. IVA or BIVA is only needed if the car no longer has enough original features to retain its original registration and ID. The point system is covered at some length on the ACE site, the IVA thread here and also on the DVLA site
Here's one I don't get. if I have (for example) a 1966 D reg Morris Minor and I fit a Rover V8, Jag IRS and Viva IFS then it needs BIVA. It will lose its D reg plate for a Q plate. However what does the log book say? 2009 Morris Minor? 2009 DIY Btiza? 2009 Morris based special? Is it still Historic Tax or is it taxed on the emission class of the engine fitted?
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Last Edit: Jul 15, 2009 12:44:14 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 15, 2009 12:45:53 GMT
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It's only a thought but we need as much publicity as possible - primarily to get a little public sympathy but more importantly, to get an MP on board, even if it is only a fella in suit who wants to get a little publicity for himself. publicity? So that the general public understands the points system? Public sympathy for what? Most of us have effectively been breaking the law for years and now when we are getting caught we want to wiggle out? Thats how the public will see it right down the line. I don't think anyone's going to change existing laws, what we need to campaign for is the fair enforcement of the ones we have and a say in ones which are coming up. the Andy Saunders case points exactly to the sort of shizzle we need to be avoiding. However publicity on this individual case won't help you with a drive train swap or me with a roof chop. Look at fox hunting: in 1997 the Labour electoral manifesto said they would ban it. Effectively everyone who voted labour in 1997 approved the banning of fox hunting and back then they had a HUGE majority. Yet 12 years later all we had was a couple of private members bills and a terrible fudge which has done nothing but alienate both sides of the arguement and allow fox hunting to continue and the Countryside Alliance to get stronger. I bet theres more of us (define "us") than there are of the fox hunters. There are already MPs who are into old cars. There is a House of Commons Classic Car Club and all sorts. This is where the gap between "modified classic" and "retro" starts to open up though. To a lot of people the thought of modifying an older car is putting a Downton head on an A35 or wire wheels on a 4 lug MGB. Don't lets muddy this thread with anti-EU and "this government is Adolf Hitler reborn" rubbish. There is a legislative framework in this country and we need to work within it or we will simply be outside the law and as the law is getting easier to enforce we will put ourselves off the road. Too many people want to just whinge about what they think their rights are and how unfair it is a big nasty policeman stopped them rather than understanding what the law really is and having your fun legally. I guess I agree with what you're saying - especially about the "let's not whinge about how hard we've got it" bit. What I mean is (and I probably didn't explain it very well to be fair), if the system is in place, we are adhering to the rules and we are slapped on the wrist when we do things that are outside of the rules, there isn't really much for us to moan about. What seems to be happening though is that the system is so confused that the people enforcing it are clueless at best and ignorant at worse. The legislation and rules themselves are flawed so my thinking is, we need someone on our side who will not fight for us all to be able to drive around in dangerous cars, but instead will lobby to have the system cleaned up to that providing we follow the rules, everyone is happy. I'd like to point out that I also have a confirmed case of Swine-Flu so if I am missing the point totally, can we put it down to the pig-fever
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Porsche 924 - gone Citroen Saxo VTR - not very retro but I loved it - now gone... MK4 Golf GTi 1.8T - gone but hardly remembered... Mini Cooper S R53 - gone BMW 125d Coupe - gone (mostly sideways)
Ford Focus RS Mk1 - hello low MPGs and "wanna race me" at every set of lights... 1973 BMW 2002 - Twin 40's, 284 Cam, Revolutions, E21 Recaros + more Porsche Cayman 987 3.4S - here and due to cost me more money than I have
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Jul 15, 2009 12:56:50 GMT
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Some good information coming through on this thread - I think it's great that as with the IVA thread, it hasn't turned into a headless chicken type scenario. More a "right, what can we do about this" sorta thing. Good stuff. I'd like to point out that I also have a confirmed case of Swine-Flu so if I am missing the point totally, can we put it down to the pig-fever May I suggest you pay a visit to the DVLA in Swansea? Make sure you shake many hands... ;D Seriously though hope you make a fast recovery.
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dubwarrior2
Part of things
"Open up, its the filth"
Posts: 576
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Jul 15, 2009 13:03:13 GMT
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don't want to hijack the thread but it is linked, so what i sth ebest way of rectifying the problem then -
I have shipped over a '67 vw camper that needs a major resto so is off the road being restored. The bus has not been registered in the UK and will rerquire it.
When finished, I want to upgrade the engine and gearbox to one from a VW Passat for reliability.
So what the best route for registering etc. Do I - build the bus in standard form and regsiter it, only to have to cut it up and rebuild it. Or can I build it with the required mods from the start and register it and MOT it?
don't want to chuck money at restoring bits that are going to be cut out
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,615
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Jul 15, 2009 13:12:55 GMT
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Jul 15, 2009 13:14:33 GMT
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It's only a thought but we need as much publicity as possible - primarily to get a little public sympathy but more importantly, to get an MP on board, even if it is only a fella in suit who wants to get a little publicity for himself. publicity? So that the general public understands the points system? Public sympathy for what? Most of us have effectively been breaking the law for years and now when we are getting caught we want to wiggle out? Thats how the public will see it right down the line. I don't think anyone's going to change existing laws, what we need to campaign for is the fair enforcement of the ones we have and a say in ones which are coming up. ................................................................................ There is a legislative framework in this country and we need to work within it or we will simply be outside the law and as the law is getting easier to enforce we will put ourselves off the road. Too many people want to just whinge about what they think their rights are and how unfair it is a big nasty policeman stopped them rather than understanding what the law really is and having your fun legally. Alistair, spot on. It's time to wake up and review what we are doing. It's not a ban ,it's short jerk on a chain to remind everyone they need to work within what we have or we run the risk of losing what has been so hard fought for since 1976 ( yup ,THAT long ago ! ).
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Jul 15, 2009 13:17:18 GMT
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don't want to hijack the thread but it is linked, so what I sth ebest way of rectifying the problem then - I have shipped over a '67 vw camper that needs a major resto so is off the road being restored. The bus has not been registered in the UK and will rerquire it. When finished, I want to upgrade the engine and gearbox to one from a VW Passat for reliability. So what the best route for registering etc. Do I - build the bus in standard form and regsiter it, only to have to cut it up and rebuild it. Or can I build it with the required mods from the start and register it and MOT it? don't want to chuck money at restoring bits that are going to be cut out Thought I'd answered this one once ?
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Jul 15, 2009 13:21:43 GMT
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engine swap, to the best of my knowledge is just a case of notifying the DVLA of the change of capacity and engine number. They seem to be asking for cars to be taken to an MOT station to "validate" the fact you have done it but I haven't done one since they apparently started doing this. SVA is gone now, no longer exists its IVA or BIVA now. IVA or BIVA is only needed if the car no longer has enough original features to retain its original registration and ID. The point system is covered at some length on the ACE site, the IVA thread here and also on the DVLA site Here's one I don't get. if I have (for example) a 1966 D reg Morris Minor and I fit a Rover V8, Jag IRS and Viva IFS then it needs BIVA. It will lose its D reg plate for a Q plate. However what does the log book say? 2009 Morris Minor? 2009 DIY Btiza? 2009 Morris based special? Is it still Historic Tax or is it taxed on the emission class of the engine fitted? The logbook will say ( as I have one sat here ) 2009 date of first registration, the make and model will be as listed on the SVA /BIVA application ( no existing copyrigtred names allowed) . The taxation will based based on the emission spec of the engine as declared and proved at SVA /BIVA time . The good thing about paying road tax is that you have the right to be out there should there ever be a restiction placed on the free use of Historic vehicles ( another thing that ACE is watching ) . You will see I keep refering to SVA still. This is correct cars use BIVA but until October 2011 goods vehicle still use a lesser form of SVA .
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Jul 15, 2009 13:23:20 GMT
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What I mean is (and I probably didn't explain it very well to be fair), if the system is in place, we are adhering to the rules and we are slapped on the wrist when we do things that are outside of the rules, there isn't really much for us to moan about. What seems to be happening though is that the system is so confused that the people enforcing it are clueless at best and ignorant at worse. The legislation and rules themselves are flawed so my thinking is, we need someone on our side who will not fight for us all to be able to drive around in dangerous cars, but instead will lobby to have the system cleaned up to that providing we follow the rules, everyone is happy. I'd like to point out that I also have a confirmed case of Swine-Flu so if I am missing the point totally, can we put it down to the pig-fever yeah, I agree. We need the rules to be fairly and openly applied by people who know what they are doign and who are accountable if they make "the wrong decission" in the same way you can quickly and (fairly) easily challange the result of an MOT test with VOSA you should have equally an easy way to appeal decissions which seem to be in breach of the rules. And to be fair most of what may have seemed a bit of a rant there was not aimed at you... Hope you are feeling better soon BTW.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 15, 2009 13:24:18 GMT
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Most replacement front screens ,or even original equipment , at least since the 80's meet EC43 specs as does side glass. We are liaising with DfT at the moment re the issues on older vehicles. However it is possible to have flat glas made to EC43 spec cheaply and the use of plastic ( to EC43 spec is allowed so a curved rear glass screen could be used as a pattern.
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Jul 15, 2009 13:25:39 GMT
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I thought that part did not apply to modified cars, only to those which are built from scratch (and professionally). Owner-modified cars and ammateur built cars are exempted from most of the worst of the restrictive regulation. Although I am not conversant with the BIVA book to be fair, thats how SVA worked and I understood in some respects BIVA for DIY cars was somewhat "slacker" than SVA had been.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 15, 2009 13:25:45 GMT
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engine swap, to the best of my knowledge is just a case of notifying the DVLA of the change of capacity and engine number. They seem to be asking for cars to be taken to an MOT station to "validate" the fact you have done it but I haven't done one since they apparently started doing this. SVA is gone now, no longer exists its IVA or BIVA now. IVA or BIVA is only needed if the car no longer has enough original features to retain its original registration and ID. The point system is covered at some length on the ACE site, the IVA thread here and also on the DVLA site Here's one I don't get. if I have (for example) a 1966 D reg Morris Minor and I fit a Rover V8, Jag IRS and Viva IFS then it needs BIVA. It will lose its D reg plate for a Q plate. However what does the log book say? 2009 Morris Minor? 2009 DIY Btiza? 2009 Morris based special? Is it still Historic Tax or is it taxed on the emission class of the engine fitted? The logbook will say ( as I have one sat here ) 2009 date of first registration, the make and model will be as listed on the SVA /BIVA application ( no existing copyrigtred names allowed) . The taxation will based based on the emission spec of the engine as declared and proved at SVA /BIVA time . The good thing about paying road tax is that you have the right to be out there should there ever be a restiction placed on the free use of Historic vehicles ( another thing that ACE is watching ) . You will see I keep refering to SVA still. This is correct cars use BIVA but until October 2011 goods vehicle still use a lesser form of SVA . Sorry to ask this but, does this mean if I decide to stick a new engine in my little Suzuki Carry before Oct 2011 it's an SVA after it would be the BIVA?
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gasserjay
Part of things
Too bad the people who know it all can't do it all
Posts: 296
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Jul 15, 2009 13:25:50 GMT
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So did Andy's car loose the cherished number for good then, and if so what happens to a cherished number when its put onto a heavily modified car.
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Last Edit: Jul 15, 2009 13:26:43 GMT by gasserjay
1970 LTD country squire 1978 VW Westfalia 1988 VW Westfalia 1973 E100 econoline 1973 E200 econoline 1967 VW Sparkafer 1973 VW GT bug 1965 21 window samba 1961 splitscreen double cab 1975 bay single cab 1956 oval baja 1975 Volvo 242 1993 Volvo 945 d24tic 1985 Transit tipper
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,615
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Jul 15, 2009 13:28:45 GMT
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I thought that part did not apply to modified cars, only to those which are built from scratch (and professionally). Owner-modified cars and ammateur built cars are exempted from most of the worst of the restrictive regulation. Although I am not conversant with the BIVA book to be fair, thats how SVA worked and I understood in some respects BIVA for DIY cars was somewhat "slacker" than SVA had been. ACE - can you confirm if this is the case please? Ta
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Jul 15, 2009 17:04:22 GMT
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I thought that part did not apply to modified cars, only to those which are built from scratch (and professionally). Owner-modified cars and ammateur built cars are exempted from most of the worst of the restrictive regulation. Although I am not conversant with the BIVA book to be fair, thats how SVA worked and I understood in some respects BIVA for DIY cars was somewhat "slacker" than SVA had been. There are 2 tests the more onerous IVA whicj requires full frontal impact and side impact provison , airbags etc and the BIVA where many of these items are removed. There was NO class for modified production cars in SVA ,only for ground up vehicles.As such though DVLA would send a modified production car for SVA ( the definition of which is a car found to be on the road and incorrectly registered without going through SVA) there was no class it could go through apart from the harder ESVA which required most of the points now featured in IVA. BIVA is actually a step forward in that these cars can now be tested .In fact it is BIVA that saved Andys car as prior to that it woudl have been impossibly expensive to make it pass. The complete current BIVA resg can be found here www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/repository/IVA-Inspection-Manual-for-M1-Passenger-Cars.pdfWhilst when printed out it's a thick manual it is only say 50% thicker than an MOT manual and no one worries about MOT ? It's all in what you are used to .
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