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Apr 15, 2020 22:22:29 GMT
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Hi all! I’ve not posted in absolutely ages, as I’ve not really had a lot that’s interesting going on in the garage, just fixing and servicing. Some may remember my build on my scimitar se6 which I rebuilt on a galvanised chassis and put a Mercedes diesel in. Now year 3, and it’s still good! So, I’m doing work on our amazon, usual rust issues as I’ve not done a lot to it or driven it. It’s my partners car, and since buying an 850 T5, with air con, there seems to be no going back. The amazon was his daily for years, and I’m not keen on it Being used in winter due to endless rust chasing ( we’ve had it 15 years) so it seems to get used I’m going to have to do something. So, years ago, I fitted a Perkins Prima into it, and it’s Been great, but the engine bay is quite full. I am really keen to get air conditioning into it, and the main stumbling block is where to fit the compressor Due to the steering box and idler, room is very limited at the bottom end, and because of this I moved the alternator to the top......like on an Essex 3.0. There’s possibly room at the top of the engine, but it’s going to get complicated getting a belt up there from the crank pulley. One thought that did occur to me, is could it run off the camshaft? Obviously I would need to create a near double size pulley to get the rpm correct, but I’m not sure it’s a good idea to be pulling the camshaft sideways in order to drive the compressor? I can think of steering pumps and hydraulic pumps run this way, but they are less load. A friend has a Citroen sm, and this has pump and air con driven off the cam, but it’s on a shaft, so it rotational force, and not side force. So, can anyone throw me some ideas??
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Apr 15, 2020 22:40:45 GMT
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Consider an 12v electric A/C pump, that might solve your problem.
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Apr 15, 2020 23:17:36 GMT
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I have researched this option, but from what I can find out it’s seems that a 12v motor would have to be huge. It would be ideal though.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:36:37 GMT
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I really know little about 12V A/C but have a look at the Rencool compressors to give you an idea on size etc. Also, look at suppliers in the U.S.. You'd never know, you might find something that's suitable and reasonably priced. Alibaba is worth having a look at too.
P.s the above article is 10 years old. Guessing, I reckon things have moved on since then.
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Last Edit: Apr 15, 2020 23:39:28 GMT by Woofwoof
Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Apr 16, 2020 10:18:19 GMT
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Thanks woof woof, yes I saw it’s an old post, and you’re right in that no doubt things have moved on, there seems to be so little info on air con in the uk, it’s like it’s still see as a mysterious force😂 In the USA there’s lots of stuff, and the kits for a normal set up are around £400, but the 200 postage and the tax put it up to near £1000.
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Apr 16, 2020 10:42:55 GMT
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A grand? Not really surprised being candid. It's not bad value if you've the money to spare. But I think if you could just get the 12v compressor then you could use parts that are commonly availably from a standard A/C system?
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Apr 16, 2020 21:24:23 GMT
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The evaporator unit can be bought from Spain for about 60 quid, the condenser is a case of measuring the hole and find one.....a fiat one looks suitable, then the dryer and getting the hose made up. The stumbling block is the compressor. I’m temped to have a go and drive one off the cam pulley, it’s the cheapest way. Into too keen on spending a fortune on a lecky compressor. Maybe there will be some come along as the electric car gains popularity?
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Apr 16, 2020 22:16:07 GMT
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I’m temped to have a go and drive one off the cam pulley, it’s the cheapest way. Into too keen on spending a fortune on a lecky compressor. Maybe there will be some come along as the electric car gains popularity? The cam pulley drive is interesting,( using a jack shaft?) I'd imagine it would want to be well engineered and alignment 100%. As you no doubt know, A/C compressors can zap a bit of power putting a potential strain on the cam assy. I'd opt for the most modern compressor from a medium/small car for that reason. Doesn't the likes of a Prius have an electric compressor? If that's the case and it's not 12V, presuming it's far higher voltage it could work with an inverter??? Totally clutching at strays now... Out of curiosity, throw up a photo of the engine when you can.
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Last Edit: Apr 16, 2020 22:22:35 GMT by Woofwoof
Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Hybrids do have electrical compressors but then they're running off 200VDC (or thereabouts). Citroen used to drive the HP pumps off the back of the camshaft (BX certainly) but they don't pull anywhere near the power an AC compressor would - I think? Without some rough figures it's all guesswork so went googling based on what CBS sell; the Sanden compressors are widely used: www.sanden.com/objects/Sanden%20Singapore%20SD7%20Series%20Compressor%20Catalogue.pdfDepending on model, between 2 and 4kW. That's about the power transmission capacity of a 20mm wide timing belt (plus/minus a big fudge factor), but it's that sort of ball park. Don't forget your timing belt also has to drive the camshaft itself. 4kW at 12V is a non-starter. That's about 3 times the power of your average car starter motor.
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Apr 17, 2020 11:55:28 GMT
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I’ve been looking at the Prius option, there’s. a video of a guy that’s built a controller for one, but that’s getting a bit too technical for me. It’s difficult tho fathom the power it will zap. My niece has a Suzuki wagon r, and it’s engine and belt are not exactly a powerhouse, and putting the air con on full barely changes the engine tone. We lived in Singapore in the 80s, and we had a rover 2000 TC, and that would stall the engine if it wasn’t warmed up first. Having said that, it was old, huge, and the evaporator unit filled the boot, it was a monster! I’ve got a cheap Peugeot on it’s way from eBay to play with, I’m hoping I can modify or move the left engine mount ( which i fabricated anyway) to make room for it, it’d be a nice direct drive from the crank pulley, but the belt would have to be super short! The alternator runs off a v belt, and it’s very heath Robinson, but it works. The steering assembly at the front with its box, link arm and idler on the other side uses up a lot of room under there.
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Apr 17, 2020 12:34:10 GMT
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Modern engines with their automatic idle speed control and electronic throttles know you're turning the AC on (or adding load via power steering etc), so add a bit of "throttle" anyway to compensate, hence it's barely noticeable (bar a change in engine note, if not revs). The MX5 ECU I'm currently playing with has inputs from the AC, power steering, heated rear window and even the lights so it knows to add a bit more air and fuel accordingly to maintain the revs.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:15:37 GMT
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I used to work for a company developing a/c systems. If I was ever to retro fit a/c to anything, I would use the system from a Nissan Micra - the roundy one that looks like how an six year old would draw a car. You could buy the car without it and then buy a kit and retro fit it. Well your dealer could. I fitted a few development ones. It is basic. The compressor is pretty compact so more chance of fitting it somewhere. The hvac is 3 box so you have fan then evap box and then heater box. Blower and evap could sit up where the glove box is and you could duct it into the heater unit. The wire harness for thermistor, Tri pressure switch, condenser fan, compressor clutch is stand alone. Just relay the power from the blower switch to control. Even the idle up circuit doesn’t brake into the ecu. It actually has a little solenoid that pushes the linkage on the throttle body to give it a bit more rpm.
Finding a Micra with ac might be a bit of an issue though.
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Apr 19, 2020 16:16:29 GMT
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Apr 20, 2020 20:56:31 GMT
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 394
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Apr 20, 2020 22:11:58 GMT
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That's very interesting about fitting the AC from a Nissan Micra into an Amazon..
I run and Amazon and also have the Full AC kit from a Nissan Pulsar GTiR sitting in the garage...so following this thread with great interest..
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Apr 22, 2020 23:42:09 GMT
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Apr 25, 2020 22:24:55 GMT
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Apr 25, 2020 23:21:14 GMT
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Sounds very interesting! What gearbox are you using? Ouch at that screen surround repair, but looks good now!
Oh, and great wheels - what are they? Is the PCD 5 x 4 1/2", or did you have to change the hubs, as depthwise, it looks like there isn't space for adaptors as they appear to be fitting straight against the regular hub position? I saw pics of your car online somewhere else a while back, and have been wondering ever since.
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Last Edit: Apr 25, 2020 23:22:37 GMT by Paul H
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Apr 26, 2020 21:23:27 GMT
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I used the original gearbox with overdrive, Sherpa backplate no idea on the wheels, I know the pcd is the later Volvo as I have an 850 wheel s a spare. I bought them off eBay from a guy breaking a car. Drove miles, got back and they didn’t fit, so drove back and bought the hubs and drums! They say made in England on them? I love them, no spacers, and they are 7J. The steering is stupid heavy until it’s rolling 😀
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Apr 26, 2020 21:29:39 GMT
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Search for Masterflux , low voltage DC compressors used for driver AC on electric and hybrid vehicles but don't expect cheap
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retired with too many projects!
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