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myeeer, fwd will be poo up the strip compared to anything rwd or 4x4. Not sure I buy this? If it's light enough and the tyres are sticky enough it can be quick. Once you start going very fast then it all changes, but light weight doesn't need that much power to accelerate hard. Plus fwd is likely to be cheaper because it's not RWD, DRIFT, NOT 2F&F etc nah rwd cars are still cheap if you buy the rght ones, besides fwd cars are way harder to get going quick up the strip, and not so good round tracks, i don't wana get into this argumnet again, but lack of weight equals lack of traction more than easier accelaration, all the best race cars are rwd. The problem with most of the ideas mentioned is there's so much more to them than just swapping in some power. Older stuff usually has woeful brakes and decrepit suspension that's often as not even adequate for standard power. There's a need for a stronger axle too and more than likely a custom prop. There is a limit to what you can achieve without spending and it all adds up. The price of a project car and the engine is just part of the whole cost normally. Also, I wouldn't consider anything to be close to "frighteningly quick" unless it's at the very least down in the low 13's, preferably 12's. Making a 12 second car for under a grand wouldn't be too hard but making one that could be driven on the street and put round a circuit for that price would be a bit more tricky. As i said, 24v in a 4x4 sierra, can be built easily for under a grand will drive like standard (better mpg than standard), go round a track really well, and wont be a slug up the strip, add another grand for a better clutch and a turbo which can be bolted on using stock engine internals and you can have around 300bhp before worrying about gearboxes or diffs, stripped out the car can be got down to about 1000kg. It already has the brakes and suspension to handle the power as its almost the same underneah as a Cossie for about a quarter the price, also don't forget the are not expensive to insure even with the 24v in em and they are still fun to drive with the rear biased four wheel drive. I use to have mucho fun in mine overtaking saxo boys on the outside round roundabouts, and off the lights they go really well especially in the wet (we have a LOT of wet days in this country) Only downside is a fair amount of people don't like the blandness of the sierra, but if you want cheap speed round corners then you put up with iti guess.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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burns
Part of things
Posts: 373
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An older 2.5L Turbo Chrysler Voyager. They've been known to break into the 12s once you've upped the boost. And utter humiliation for the guys you beat. Just to double check we're talking about the 114bhp 2.5 TD? That's some serious untapped potential right there.
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Mike D
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,197
Club RR Member Number: 57
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An older 2.5L Turbo Chrysler Voyager. They've been known to break into the 12s once you've upped the boost. And utter humiliation for the guys you beat. Just to double check we're talking about the 114bhp 2.5 TD? That's some serious untapped potential right there. No! Unfortunately not. It's an older shape one with a 2.5 turbo petrol motor. I'm not sure if we got them over here or not.
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,416
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Old legacy turbo (almost a Impreza underneath??) go for like £1500!! That would be well cool!
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all the best race cars are rwd. That's right. Those funny little BMC cars didn't have much luck in the 60s and 70s did they? Even now people autotest them But I agree with the XR4x4, as I put it in the first page - cheap power ;D
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nah rwd cars are still cheap if you buy the rght ones, besides fwd cars are way harder to get going quick up the strip, and not so good round tracks, I don't wana get into this argumnet again, but lack of weight equals lack of traction more than easier accelaration, all the best race cars are rwd. Ahhhhh that'll explain the BMW's dominance of the current British Touring Car series over the Vectra and the Civic .... oh hold on ..... I just remembered that Bodydrop's Vauxhall Nova seemed to shift a lot : www.dragslag.com/carspecs/ade.htm ... what happened to Bodydrop.. I miss him. Runs 11s.
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dexter
Part of things
Posts: 130
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2007 15:06:14 GMT by dexter
keep ur granny alive simply fantastic not moulded plastic
granadas need homes too you know
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Probably borderline Retro - but 20v Turbo - easy 140mph and blindingly quick if you can live with FWD. prices in the £1000-£2000 bracket. Just a thought ;D
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Wouldn't describe a 24v XR4x4 as quick really.
Although on the topic of Sierra's I'd be tempted to do a Turbo Mustang style jobbie, i.e find an old turbo 2.8 and wind the boost up with some primitive extra fuel injection and see how long it holds together. I only say that because of my familiarity with them though.
Personally I feel the only way to cheap easy power is with a turbo and a grenade tuning philosophy. Either that or a welder and some serious time on your hands.
Stripped out Volvo 940 2.2 turbo, some resistors, bleed valve and RAC membership.
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If I was at home, and my home PC's motherboard hadn't got a big scorch in the middle, I'd be posting up pics of about eight different 10-second Civics, all of which are pre-1990 shells.... Got pics of several 12/13 second Civics too which are surprisingly "ordinary" - looking. Now I've got to go home and trawl through the shed for compnents to build a PC so I can show you all. ;D I will concede that RWD cars are probably cheaper / easier to build though!
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My fleet: Suzuki GSX-R600Y SRAD with bald, melted tyres A borrowed Mondeo
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I will concede that RWD cars are probably cheaper / easier to build though! thats the whole point of this thread, a cheap fast car to run on the road track and strip. all the best race cars are rwd. That's right. Those funny little BMC cars didn't have much luck in the 60s and 70s did they? Even now people autotest them But I agree with the XR4x4, as I put it in the first page - cheap power ;D were not in the 60's and 70's anymore nah rwd cars are still cheap if you buy the rght ones, besides fwd cars are way harder to get going quick up the strip, and not so good round tracks, I don't wana get into this argumnet again, but lack of weight equals lack of traction more than easier accelaration, all the best race cars are rwd. Ahhhhh that'll explain the BMW's dominance of the current British Touring Car series over the Vectra and the Civic .... oh hold on ..... I just remembered that Bodydrop's Vauxhall Nova seemed to shift a lot : www.dragslag.com/carspecs/ade.htm ... what happened to Bodydrop.. I miss him. Runs 11s. yeah thats such a fair championship, RWD cars have to carry more weight than FWD ones and they get more added everytimethey win. Wouldn't describe a 24v XR4x4 as quick really. Although on the topic of Sierra's I'd be tempted to do a Turbo Mustang style jobbie, I.e find an old turbo 2.8 and wind the boost up with some primitive extra fuel injection and see how long it holds together. I only say that because of my familiarity with them though. Personally I feel the only way to cheap easy power is with a turbo and a grenade tuning philosophy. Either that or a welder and some serious time on your hands. Stripped out Volvo 940 2.2 turbo, some resistors, bleed valve and RAC membership. A turbo'd 24v will easy make over 300bhp, in a stripped out XR4x4 how can 300bhp per ton not be fast?
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Theory theory theory (as far as I know)
Show me a quick 24v Sierra, show me one with a turbo conversion that actually works. Lets see some results rather than what's seemed like about five years of hot air.
With a standard 24v they go from slow to not slow, you'd still get blown away by luke warm production cars.
This thread is about 'frighteningly quick' cars.
300bhp is hardly frightening, that's like stage one cossie stuff.
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2007 15:31:09 GMT by MWF
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mk14dr
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 4,472
Club RR Member Number: 85
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iirc thats 'vette engined. And runs with a full interior ;D
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Theory theory theory (as far as I know) Show me a quick 24v Sierra, show me one with a turbo conversion that actually works. Lets see some results rather than what's seemed like about five years of hot air. With a standard 24v they go from slow to not slow, you'd still get blown away by luke warm production cars. This thread is about 'frighteningly quick' cars. 300bhp is hardly frightening, that's like stage one cossie stuff. yeah but we are talking budget cars and I cant see how you can say 300bhp and 4x4 for around 2 grand isnt fast, and 300bhp from forced induction isnt theory its real, for example theres a mk2 escort running an internally stock supercharged 24v with a very conservitive ignition map cos he cant fit an intercooler in it at about 0.5 bar boost and it makes 320bhp with dyno graphs to prove it, it was at ford fair. Lots of turbo 24v's around if you bother to look, also at ford fair was the 2.3 scorpio estate built by Turbo Technics that has a twin turbo BOA in it owned by geoff himslef who also campaigns a 500bhp twin turbo sierra sprint car, engine? 24v. although neither of those are cheap, it does prove they work, guy I know is building a twin turbo 24v mk2 wide arch escort in gulf colours which you must have see at the shows. the XR4x4 comes with all the bits to handle 300bhp already on it (except the clutch) so you save masses of money by not having to buy gearboxes and diffs and stuff. Stage one cossies are well expensive in comparison, and i dunno whereyou get your facts from saying a standard production car will beat a 24v sierra, thats rubbish, how many new cars have over 200bhp? don't forget how much weight most new cars carry, AND most of are fwd. unless your definition of cheap is different from mine, I defy you to find another way to get a 300 horse 4x4 road car for 2 grand what ever you consider not much money.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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dexter
Part of things
Posts: 130
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I know but its cool and makes me get movement down below(if you know what I mean) every time I see it!!!!!!!! its time for my mk2 estate to recive a new engine I think, dunno what though? maybe a cossie? english v8? or big yanky v8 thingy?
someone sneaked a post in before i finished this one!!!!! and i was too thick to use replie option.
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2007 16:26:09 GMT by dexter
keep ur granny alive simply fantastic not moulded plastic
granadas need homes too you know
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yeah thats such a fair championship, RWD cars have to carry more weight than FWD ones and they get more added everytimethey win. I notice you don't tackle the 11 second FWD Nova.
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i had forgotten about it, how much was it? is it practical as a road car? what about goin round a track? what happens at the lights if its been raining?
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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re the coop 20 v turbo,its more like 155 plus mph,it would be a bit of a dog for under 2 k though,my old 16v thema turbo running 30 psi of boost felt quiker than my modded 20v turbo coop,i know 30 psi is a lot but the car was only £200 !
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Have to ask Bodydrop if he swings by if its okay on the road... but I believe the original statement of intent was :
"Wanna get back out and razz at the pod"
Seeing as the Nova cost less than a grand and was made from scrap yard parts and can then go out and pull an 11 second quarter mile.. I suspect you won't get much more bang for your buch for a bit of razzing at the Pod.
Of course if he wanted something to rag around Castle Combe or whatever I'd have suggested an Alfa 33 1.7 Cloverleaf. Because it doesn't matter what its like at the lights in the wet because only an idiot would race on public roads in the wet.
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Drag strip lights not traffic lights I.e find an old turbo 2.8 and wind the boost up with some primitive extra fuel injection and see how long it holds together. I only say that because of my familiarity with them though. just noticed this bit as well, the standard mechanical injection on the 2.8 wont fuel enough for any more than about 220bhp
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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