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Jan 15, 2023 11:18:06 GMT
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What are you using for this model? I hunted all around for an accurate CAD model to test my coupe roof chop on and didn't find anythingthat looked accurate. What would the perfect "period modified" Minor look like? My thoughts include low-light front end conversion and wheel spats. At the idea phase right now...  Reece Fish carburettor with laser-cut adapter, Marina torsion bars and rear ARB sourced for fun times, beyond the idea stage.   |
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Remade In Australia
thereimaginarium.com.au
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Jan 15, 2023 11:31:31 GMT
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What are you using for this model? I hunted all around for an accurate CAD model to test my coupe roof chop on and didn't find anythingthat looked accurate. What would the perfect "period modified" Minor look like? My thoughts include low-light front end conversion and wheel spats. At the idea phase right now... It is an accurate lowlight model that was available for a few quid modified with some later model features. I couldn't find a later one that looked correct. The one in Forza 3 even looks wrong to me. Happy to share it if you like? Tempted to see if I can get it into CFD and see how terrible the aerodynamics are! |
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2023 19:17:19 GMT by halkyon
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Jan 15, 2023 20:44:50 GMT
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If you think it's pretty accuratethat'dbe great. Well into the physicalchop already, but itd be a great resource to play with to see my form more complete. I'm starting from a 2 door low light so an ideal starting point. What are you using for this model? I hunted all around for an accurate CAD model to test my coupe roof chop on and didn't find anythingthat looked accurate. It is an accurate lowlight model that was available for a few quid modified with some later model features. I couldn't find a later one that looked correct. The one in Forza 3 even looks wrong to me. Happy to share it if you like? Tempted to see if I can get it into CFD and see how terrible the aerodynamics are! |
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Remade In Australia
thereimaginarium.com.au
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Jan 23, 2023 14:56:41 GMT
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Thought I'd put my model through off-the-shelf CFD to see how terrible the aero is.
Yes - the windscreen is too steep and the gutters are a mess.
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Jan 23, 2023 17:20:52 GMT
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Wheel skirts on all four corners...?
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Jan 23, 2023 21:32:47 GMT
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Wheel skirts on all four corners...?
I'd love to make up some rears, not sure how to do the front and still be able to turn corners, I suppose they would also need to flare out a bit.
I notice most modern cars have wheel air deflectors in front of the wheels, that could also help. Doing a lot of work for a small increase in efficiency but the nerd in me absolutely loves it.
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Jan 23, 2023 21:47:51 GMT
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Ida Automotive built this amazing Mercury with moveable front skirts. It's a bit involved mind you.
Intriguing to think about how to aero up something like this. THere's the Ecomodders forum I assume is still about, but they tend to start with rather more aero cars.
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Jan 23, 2023 22:05:50 GMT
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Ida Automotive built this amazing Mercury with moveable front skirts. It's a bit involved mind you. Intriguing to think about how to aero up something like this. THere's the Ecomodders forum I assume is still about, but they tend to start with rather more aero cars. Yeah, I find it really interesting even though the gains will be quite marginal. The Minor is a pretty bad starting point but the plan might be something like...
0. Lowering,
1. Lowlight front wings, 2. Blank all or most of the stamped holes in the engine bay floor,
3. Undertrays,
4. Rear spats, 5. Front spats?! 6. Wheel air deflectors, 7. Fill rear bumper leading face (it's currently a hollow parachute), 8. Fill excess grille opening.
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Last Edit: Jan 23, 2023 23:44:39 GMT by halkyon
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The design of the front is terrible, like mine.
Watch the way the water droplets blow, bet you've got a big triangular static area at the rear of the bonnet. The water blows down and to the outside edge of my windshield.
Personally I would forego any aero if you can drive with one window down and not have the cabin buffet violently...
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Last Edit: Jan 24, 2023 3:52:04 GMT by PhilA
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Jan 25, 2023 11:48:43 GMT
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The design of the front is terrible, like mine. Watch the way the water droplets blow, bet you've got a big triangular static area at the rear of the bonnet. The water blows down and to the outside edge of my windshield. Personally I would forego any aero if you can drive with one window down and not have the cabin buffet violently... That is what my ridiculously large window deflector is for. 
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Jan 25, 2023 15:46:55 GMT
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thanks for the write up
been looking at Moggy’s recently as in the market for a classic really like the low light conversion you mentioned earlier
was looking at travellers and was shocked at the premium price a good one has jumped upto where as a saloon hasn’t gone too mad just yet.
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Personally I would forego any aero if you can drive with one window down and not have the cabin buffet violently... That is what my ridiculously large window deflector is for. Surely opening the quartlights solves the buffeting? Always did on my Amazon. What are you using for this model? I hunted all around for an accurate CAD model to test my coupe roof chop on and didn't find anythingthat looked accurate. It is an accurate lowlight model that was available for a few quid modified with some later model features. I couldn't find a later one that looked correct. The one in Forza 3 even looks wrong to me. Happy to share it if you like? Tempted to see if I can get it into CFD and see how terrible the aerodynamics are! Based on my old '64 1098 van being easily able to run off the top of the speedo, I've always reckoned that the biggest issue with the aerodynamics on a Minor is the tail - on the van, it's a cleaner break away than on the saloon (the same seems to apply with many estates vs saloons) & thus less drag, despite the greater frontal area. I'd be very interested in a copy of that CAD model please, if you're still happy to share it? Looks ideal as the start point for 3D printing an accurate 1:24 scale model Minor, as aside from a Traveler, a decent one is yet to be available... |
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That is what my ridiculously large window deflector is for. Surely opening the quartlights solves the buffeting? Always did on my Amazon. It is an accurate lowlight model that was available for a few quid modified with some later model features. I couldn't find a later one that looked correct. The one in Forza 3 even looks wrong to me. Happy to share it if you like? Tempted to see if I can get it into CFD and see how terrible the aerodynamics are! Based on my old '64 1098 van being easily able to run off the top of the speedo, I've always reckoned that the biggest issue with the aerodynamics on a Minor is the tail - on the van, it's a cleaner break away than on the saloon (the same seems to apply with many estates vs saloons) & thus less drag, despite the greater frontal area. I'd be very interested in a copy of that CAD model please, if you're still happy to share it? Looks ideal as the start point for 3D printing an accurate 1:24 scale model Minor, as aside from a Traveler, a decent one is yet to be available... Once I finally got the quaterlights to stop whistling I vowed to never open them again.
My understanding is an elongated tail is the best aerodynamic shape (see Lightyear 1, long swoopy Mercedes models recently) but generally not practical on a road car, so the best compromise is a sharp cut-off and/or spoilers at the end of the roof line above the rear window.
I'll happily share the model via PM although it is not perfectly accurate.
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From what I remember of uni lectures in both aero and hydro dynamics, the breakaway of flow can be more critical than the entry - the classic example being that adding a tapered tail to a circular shape (i.e. to make it aerofoil shaped) dramatically reduces its drag. So both Kamm tails on cars, and cut-off transom sterns (as opposed to canoe sterns or counters) on boats & ships have a big effect on drag reduction above a certain speed. E.g on sailing dinghies, at low speed in light winds, the transom needs to be out of the water, so that the flow just runs off the surface of the hull. At higher speed, the base of the transom can be submerged, as the flow is moving fast enough to run off cleanly. Wetted surface & other factors also come in to play, as does the pitch of the hull.
Given identical mechanicals, I'm pretty sure that an Amazon estate is faster than a saloon, based on the figures I've seen on an autobahn, and I know that my speedo accuracy is spot on up to at least 80. With the Minor van I used to own, the issue was stopping it over revving in top. I once had it at about 5500rpm in 4th, which isn't ideal for a 1098... I blame that on the live recording of Lynrd Skynrd's Freebird though! In both cases, these were above the figures that period roadtests suggest were achievable for an Amazon 123GT, and a Minor 1000 saloon respectively, which makes me believe that the big difference is lower drag due to shape.
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Last Edit: Mar 8, 2023 21:38:41 GMT by Paul H
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I'd believe it and hope to learn a bit more CFD to confirm it.
Rumour has it the upside-down wing shape of a Minor saloon generates lift from 80mph, and the change to "high-light" wings reduced the top speed of the car when introduced, much to the chagrin of Issigonis.
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Last Edit: Mar 8, 2023 21:46:36 GMT by halkyon
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In free air it would be as the air over the top would travel further / faster so the pressure would be lower(Bernoulli describes this), when it's on a road though air is to some degree forced around the car creating a depression under it, this all gets very complicated though, even formula 1 teams still use wind tunnels with moving belts as opossed to relying totaly on CFD.
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Mar 14, 2023 17:57:28 GMT
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Yeah? I can't get glass transparency right - I do not want to tint it.  |
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Last Edit: Mar 14, 2023 17:58:19 GMT by halkyon
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Mar 14, 2023 19:06:52 GMT
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Looks epic 🙂 Could you do a version with the side trim chromed to tie in with the door handles?
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Looks epic 🙂 Could you do a version with the side trim chromed to tie in with the door handles? Bonnet side trim is an alloy casting, but the sections on the door skins and rear quarter panels are part of the pressings, so might not be easy in reality (iirc, there was just a pinstripe / coach line on them), but it would certainly look smart though! BMC cost saving meant that vans & pickups never had the bonnet trims, which always looked odd. For the spats, would a line off the bottom of the sill flow smoothly into the trailing part of the rear wing, more in line with the full spats on an XK120 or early Jag Mk1? |
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Apr 13, 2023 20:07:19 GMT
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Looks epic 🙂 Could you do a version with the side trim chromed to tie in with the door handles? For the spats, would a line off the bottom of the sill flow smoothly into the trailing part of the rear wing, more in line with the full spats on an XK120 or early Jag Mk1? Basically blend it seamlessly with the rest of the car? Yes, I just worry that it will create such a large featureless expanse that it'll look odd - that's why I added louvres.
Definitely worth trying though, as well as a version with a more curved bottom edge, the spats are the one bit that is not final.
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What would the perfect "period modified" Minor look like?
