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so this is where i need you're help. i don't want to go crazy with the build, I'm Thinking send the pump away and get 7mm elements put in. also std om606 manafold but I'm not sure about turbo options? think they came with t25 or t3's, but if anyone has any advice, I don't want to go bananas. What pump do you have on there presently? The stock ECU controlled mechanical one? For what it will cost to send the pump away to Diesel Pump UK or to DieselMeken and get built with larger elements and modified to be used with a turbo (it'll also need an Alda to supply fuel on boost and perhaps some modification to the rack?) you may want to look at getting a turbo engine, the OM606.692 as you won't be able to use it to it's full potential with the NA motor - and would it be worth the cost to do otherwise..? The OM606.692 is pretty reasonable (I'd expect around 800 for a decent one with all the ancillaries) in the scheme of things for what your build will cost and I wouldn't be put off one that is even up around 150k. If you sold your NA motor then it would also probably be the cheapest way to get the turbo and manifold as well. If you do stick with the NA motor then I'd probably just get a stock pump, manifold and turbo off of a turbo motor and be happy with the 140-170bhp that it gives you, if not you'd need 6mm elements to match a stock turbo. Putting a tuned OM606 on a manual box you'll also need to sort out the jerking from a larger element pump or it'll be pretty un-drivable, you can get whats essentially an oiling kit from DPUK - the anti jerk kit. Budget for this on a manual box with a larger element fuel pump. In my estate which I am soon to take the engine out of to put in my MegaUMM Overlander project I have a purely mechanical pump (no electronic controls) from Dieselmeken with 8mm elements in it, it has a Borg Warner 200SX quick spool hybrid turbo with 0.63 A/R housing and billet compressor wheel and a Turbo smart external waste gate. It's making 400bhp presently, all it needs is the Bosch 044 pump I have in its glovebox wiring in and it'll make 450 - 500bhp. It's currently on a modified AMG box which has been drilled (the flare mod), a home brew paddle shift system and is mechanically man enough for the job, but this I will be swapping to an AX15 manual box and Dana 300 in my overlander - because of this I have the Anti-Jerk system ready to bolt on when I take it out of the estate - it'd be undriveable without the jerk system. If it was my money I'd be selling the NA motor, getting a stock turbo motor for not much more with the turbo, manifold and pump on already and running it like that with its controller. Then in the future I'd be swapping to a purely mechanical pump with 8mm elements and the same turbo setup I've got on mine. " greencarfritz " you're a hero. I was on the fence with the anti Jerk thing, but ill take your advice. I picked up the n/a as it was dirt cheep, had a mechanical pump  , came with all the manual gearbox bits i needed & was delivered. I plan on running it to destruction. Like you say I can pick up turbo engines quite easily but i just want to get the build mocked up and shaken down abit. I was going to get the budget turbo kit from DPuK, so 7.7mm elements and 35mm holset. ill stick with the std lift pump as believe the rear end in a w123 are quite fragile?? your build sounds epic! btw |
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There is something about the w123s, one of cars I will need to own one day for sure. strongly recommend, £80 a year to insure  Just hope you like welding |
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managed to get a couple to complete a couple of other things before the weather closes in, AGAIN High build  and a fresh layer of 'China Blue'  Got bit of a cheeky chicken at the moment, she would of probably leave claw prints an poop if i turned my back   |
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when i got the car the front springs were broken, but still sat properly. I bought some replacements from eBay and they turned out to be rubbish. they just sagged as soon as i put them on the car and have been progressively getting worse.  Some might say its has a good 'stance' there but the sump is very close to the ground and i don't like it. after many a call to Mercedes Conway, then Mercedes Germany & Mercedes Heritage in Germany nobody could be arsed to give me the time of day. So I approached a company in Leed's called Spring Coil. After a quick chat "eyh, no problem" I sent down my old springs so they could re-manufacture to that spec. Fast forward a few weeks I figured having the front wings off would would make life abit easier. was interesting to see how the springs sit once installed.  the springs were little bit taller and abit stiffer then the Ebay ones but its hard to tell, The om606 is 50+kg lighter so there will be an improvement somewhere. |
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" greencarfritz " you're a hero. I was on the fence with the anti Jerk thing, but ill take your advice. I picked up the n/a as it was dirt cheep, had a mechanical pump , came with all the manual gearbox bits i needed & was delivered. I plan on running it to destruction. Like you say I can pick up turbo engines quite easily but i just want to get the build mocked up and shaken down abit. I was going to get the budget turbo kit from DPuK, so 7.7mm elements and 35mm holset. ill stick with the std lift pump as believe the rear end in a w123 are quite fragile?? your build sounds epic! btw No worries, just passing over what I learnt from before I went down a similar route. I absolutely love the motor though, I can't think of any suitable alternative for a high powered bombproof diesel, all of it makes real sense. Fair enough. Sounds a good idea, the Borg Warner that I have is essentially the same as one of their upgrade offerings with a couple of little tweaks. I've heard mixed things about them before I dealt with them myself but they've been good to me with parts and advice so far. Sounds a good idea, I'd get them to set the pump up and add the anti jerk at the same time. Indeed, if you're not going for mega power then the standard pump will do just fine. If you pass by devon anytime though you can take the rear end out of my E300 if it is of any use, it's not LSD or anything special though. Thanks, it's got it's pwn thread... forum.retro-rides.org/thread/183956/umm-alter-om606-superturbodiesel-overlander |
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1987 Supercharged BMW R1150 Citroen 2cv Hillclimb Monster
1995 Renault Master Mk1 Race Transporter
1994 Mazda MX5 Mk1 / NA Road Going Class Hillclimber
1991 UMM Alter II Crew Cab OM606 SuperTurbo Diesel MegaUMM Overlander
1992 UMM Alter II Station Wagon
1980 UMM Cournil - survivor - resto project
1979 Lomax 224
2014 VW T5.1 Transporter Kombi Highline
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+ 1 for Springcoil, I've used them several times for my racecar.
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1987 Supercharged BMW R1150 Citroen 2cv Hillclimb Monster
1995 Renault Master Mk1 Race Transporter
1994 Mazda MX5 Mk1 / NA Road Going Class Hillclimber
1991 UMM Alter II Crew Cab OM606 SuperTurbo Diesel MegaUMM Overlander
1992 UMM Alter II Station Wagon
1980 UMM Cournil - survivor - resto project
1979 Lomax 224
2014 VW T5.1 Transporter Kombi Highline
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Thoroughly excellent thread.
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Thoroughly excellent thread. Very Kind, I do worry that i go into to much detail. to be honest i find the small uninteresting jobs seem to take up much time and thought. Prime example, I ended up cutting the top radiator support as it makes removing the engine much easer. I'm future it would be better if it was held in with bolts so it can easily be removed. I admit, it does hold the bonnet catch and the VIN plate so I wouldn't disagree that having it as part of the vehicle in't bad idea. its just me, and for that reason i want this to look as factory as possible 1. Weld on additional metal  2. Cut, file and weld crush tubes to reduce pinching when tightening bolts,  3. test fit many times, make sure bonnet latch works ect...  4. will weld in the nuts captive and then paint.  I'm pretty confident it will hold the bonnet down and the factory reenforcing bar will prevent it from shifting when opening and closing the bonnet. I needed to stand in the engine bay to paint it so it missed the first paint-a-thon, iv got new wings on the way so it will get painted when they do. about an afternoons work there. I'm glad its done |
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Mar 17, 2020 20:16:24 GMT
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I like many others have been asked to work from home, other then doing 'work' though I could use the time more in other ways firstly, these arrived. just thrown on here as its too cold and wet & windy.  but i did have a nice indoor job lined up, I needed to do something about the EGR port on the exhaust manifold.  At the risk of offending many of you, i though i would have a go at plating it and welding cast iron with the mig welder. before the fits of rage start, A) I'm not that bothered about doing a good job of this B) just fancy having a go, i would like to know long this will last. 3mm plate  and very slowly welded it on  Still good  |
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Last Edit: Mar 17, 2020 20:19:29 GMT by space goat
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Does it seal?
Pour thinners mixed with a little dye or something in and put a paper towel underneath.
Although it's probably dirty enough to spot without the dye.
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Mar 22, 2020 18:03:45 GMT
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Had a push on the body work this weekend, So get the wings valance fitted and painted. So slapped them on the car to find there quite a poor fit, not surprised or frankly bothered. but did find one was bent in the post... I had a feeling this would happen as they were shipped in bubble wrap and not in a box.  @ £100 each i wasn't very pleased. So mentioned it to the eBay Seller, who was very appologetic and insisted he personally drops of the replacement the next day. considering he was coming from London and I'm in north wales I was pleasantly surprised. next morning, true to his word he'd did the swap and was on his way. great service. Though I wish he stuck around to get them fitted  slap the high build on  The bonnet is in quite good condition but had patches of rust coming through (from stone chips), I figured it would be a shame to not treat it whilst i was at it. will also help the new wings look less obvious,  Thought I should stagger the painting, 1st areas of the wing that can't be painted when on the car & underside of the bonnet 2nd paint wings on the car & bonnet. The fit from the wing to the door is particularly S**T   then second round of paint   I Should of pulled the car out so i had more space, as a result the gun was to close so i now have to sand out some MEGGA runs,  ffs That felt like allot of work |
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Mar 22, 2020 18:58:47 GMT
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Ohh balls! Good work getting this far though.
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1987 Supercharged BMW R1150 Citroen 2cv Hillclimb Monster
1995 Renault Master Mk1 Race Transporter
1994 Mazda MX5 Mk1 / NA Road Going Class Hillclimber
1991 UMM Alter II Crew Cab OM606 SuperTurbo Diesel MegaUMM Overlander
1992 UMM Alter II Station Wagon
1980 UMM Cournil - survivor - resto project
1979 Lomax 224
2014 VW T5.1 Transporter Kombi Highline
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Mar 28, 2020 23:03:02 GMT
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Not much progress this weekend. just a colour sand and buff.    about 3/4 weeks ago struggling to get hold of a pilot bearing. I just could find anyone who could stock them or get them in, around this time i had met a guy who had been force to move back to the UK from Chine, so had me wondering if this was the beginning COVID-19. I managed to find a Mercedes new old stock on eBay. and yes The hologram label did amuse me  Thought I would also change the rear main seal  As work has always been abit sporadic I tend to pay my bills up front, so with a looming council tax bill and the current public health crises I don't think there will be much progress in the coming few weeks. I'm anticipating the arrival of a clutch disk (Hermes managed to loose one already ) and a prop shaft, once here I think i can get the engine in and start on the cooling, vacuum, gear linkage and power steering. That should be enough to keep my busy |
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Last Edit: Mar 28, 2020 23:06:24 GMT by space goat
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Mar 28, 2020 23:12:58 GMT
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also thought i would try and see if the old paint is salvageable, I don't fancy painting the car to match the front. The boot lid was probably one of the wort areas, after 2500grit, fast cut and fine polishing compound i think It could work. I'm thinking I might just clear coat over the rust spots for and call it a preservation mission  |
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Last Edit: Mar 28, 2020 23:15:48 GMT by space goat
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Mar 29, 2020 18:56:51 GMT
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The MOT man is constantly telling me to wire brush the under carriage and give it a coat paint. A good idea but not my idea of fun, hence me preferring to take the passive aggression. But as the exhaust, prop and gearbox are absent now will probably be the best time ( i have also been tripping over the same tin of chassis paint for 2 years) Not wanting to get into the habit of painting over the cracks, the sill's around the jacking points are a bit haggard. Not helped by me placing my axel stands under them. so i though i may aswell try and straighten that part of the sill and deal with the rust.    (though i would weld an initial on the underneath, was already on my back and wasn't in a rush t stand up)  Thought it would be fun to contrast side by side. its hard to fund moments of fun under a car with corn flake chunks of rust falling in your eyes  and job done  that will be my last boring painting post, I promise. |
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Apr 12, 2020 19:00:59 GMT
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Manage to waist a few hours messing around with the clutch, I couldn't get the thing to disengage. I ended up whipping this up to give me a chance, turned out to be quite accurate way to guage how much travel is needed, and if there was enough travel in the slave cylinder.   turns out the friction disk was being pushed up hard against the flywheel, so after some light massaging of the fiction disk all is working as it should. I don't think the old cooling system is up to the task so grabbed a w124 radiator and an expansion tank.   rad was a good fit, only needed to tweak the nubby things at the bottom then for it to sit perfectly. Expansion tank is on the way but I'm not worried about space (I put a headlight in to see how much room i have to play with, LOADS!) Thought it would be nice to slap some paint on it before lifting it in.  unfortunately the grey turned to purple in the blue engine bay. not great but not to fussed  No chance of getting to original fan to work so slapped int the w124 ac fan in front  Not sure what's the best way to wire it in. will need to see if there is a temp switch in the engine somewhere and go from there. on the topic of wiring found a reminder of the demise of many a retro, this is what's left of the wiring from the w124, Looks like i'll be making my own engine loom.   |
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Apr 19, 2020 19:31:05 GMT
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engine loom was defiantly passed it, for those who don't know old diesel engines don't need much to run so took the 5 cylinder loom from the old engine and made it into a 6.  I had previously replaced the glow plug relay with a big 4 pin job, so glow plug circuit just need to be murged into a fat cable then to the post on the relay. used a blend of cables for starter and chasses power and earth, interior light came in so good enough for now. charging circuit was simple enough.  For a while i wasn't sure what to do about the inlet manifold, I have seen pics of folk plumbing turbos into N/A manifolds but for me it look clumsy and the numerous emission ports will most likely turn into boost leaks. Then i see a manifold pop up on flee bay.... in estonia. This was before lockdown so i though i would take a punt. some time later I was beginning to think i wouldn't see it in a while / ever. Then i get back from a sunday morning dog walk there's a large box, victory!!!! after a good scrub (Shiny bit is egr delete)  though i would tidy up some other loose ends before CROWNing it with the newly acquired rack of ribs, Vacuum (engine uses vacuum for shutdown) Power steering lines, Throttle (allot less travel now ). The old rad had the expansion tank on top, new rad doesn't so plopped in a suitably vintage tank somewhere out the way.   |
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Last Edit: Apr 19, 2020 19:35:28 GMT by space goat
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Apr 19, 2020 19:48:49 GMT
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Most excellent to see.
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1987 Supercharged BMW R1150 Citroen 2cv Hillclimb Monster
1995 Renault Master Mk1 Race Transporter
1994 Mazda MX5 Mk1 / NA Road Going Class Hillclimber
1991 UMM Alter II Crew Cab OM606 SuperTurbo Diesel MegaUMM Overlander
1992 UMM Alter II Station Wagon
1980 UMM Cournil - survivor - resto project
1979 Lomax 224
2014 VW T5.1 Transporter Kombi Highline
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Apr 25, 2020 21:39:09 GMT
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I knew there gearbox end of the speedo cable will need some modification so i off i pop under the car with a file in my hand for me only to find the drive isn't turning with the output shaft. eehhhhhhh think this is an engine and gearbox job but least I'm getting quicker at it now I had noticed the tail stock had been off before on the box so I guess this might be why. the output drive is held down by a bolt i don't have a tool for, yet  was happy to butcher a multi point socket, came as a set so think it was less the £1  Housing off, was pleased to see it's pretty clean in there  Turned out the plastic gear had snapped, and i haven't had much luck finding a replacement so its time to butcher the other Mercedes box's i have lying around,   Black plastic one is from a w123 and the metal one is from the w123 unfortunately the black one is in going in the wrong direction, so picked my battle with the W123 gear instead (and it made of metal with is obviously better)  Bearing back together  and it working, wwaayyy, think i got quite lucky there. |
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Last Edit: Apr 25, 2020 22:13:01 GMT by space goat
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Jul 12, 2020 19:30:23 GMT
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This W123 project has been ignored bit not forgotten. Last week, a couple of long awaited parcels arrived  Despite being Mrs Space goats birthday, I managed to sneak away to slap the pump on.  The following day things started to fall down when trying to plumb it in  The return line from the filter housing had been broken and there previous attempt to glue it back together had failed  Also it looks like someone had tried to fix leaking connections with PTFE tape.. not the end of the world but far from great, also i don't know how effective this is on O ring seals?  After some though I came to the conclusion that robing the filter housing form the om617 would fix all my problems. (also at this point I will now have to sell the engine for parts as i have pinched so many things from it)   it also gave me an excuse to use the diesel heat exchange blanking plate i bought on a whim.  I'm quite pleased with this, more robust and the plumbing is so simple even I can recall it's operation from memory. Just a few more fitting's to cobble together than i can get the engine back in and start mounting the turbo. |
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, came with all the manual gearbox bits i needed & was delivered.
