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Absolutely love this thread; Whilst not a fan of VW's, I'm gripped. I started the same way as you did (nearly 30 years ago!) so it's good to see someone going through the same learning curve. You'll have a better understanding of a modern car by learning about "simple" ones.
Things I'd suggest:
1) Have a plan: Work out which bits you're going to tackle (so, get engine running; Sort Brakes, etc etc) Put it up here, there's enough old hands around here that can say "leave that for now, Focus on XYZ".
2) Then make a list - Tackling one job at a time, and tick stuff off as you go; It'll help keep you motivated.
3) If you're not sure, ask. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
4) Pictures, pictures pictures. They'll help you remember how stuff came apart, they help other users who are trying to help.
If you were any closer, I'd be up at weekends helping you get this beauty running. Keep up the good work.
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Apr 12, 2016 12:50:40 GMT
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Absolutely love this thread; Whilst not a fan of VW's, I'm gripped. I started the same way as you did (nearly 30 years ago!) so it's good to see someone going through the same learning curve. You'll have a better understanding of a modern car by learning about "simple" ones. Things I'd suggest: 1) Have a plan: Work out which bits you're going to tackle (so, get engine running; Sort Brakes, etc etc) Put it up here, there's enough old hands around here that can say "leave that for now, Focus on XYZ". 2) Then make a list - Tackling one job at a time, and tick stuff off as you go; It'll help keep you motivated. 3) If you're not sure, ask. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask. 4) Pictures, pictures pictures. They'll help you remember how stuff came apart, they help other users who are trying to help. If you were any closer, I'd be up at weekends helping you get this beauty running. Keep up the good work. I'm in the same position with my Volvo - I'm a complete novice and the words above are very good advice. I was buying all sorts of stuff and doing bits all over the car but I realised I needed a plan. So at the moment I'm going to sort out the service items, I've already sorted a few niggles here and there which were stopping me doing the service items. What I found was good was making lists in categories with some extras which are "nice to do". They are good to list as if you get really frustrated with a job and you can't figure it out you can go back to your list and pick off a nice simple job which gives you a boost then go back to the frustrating one. What I often find is I have a day here and there to do things and I don't want to waste a whole day so having a few jobs to pick from makes the day a bit better as you can go onto another job if one has to stop. When you make a list also list the parts and the tools you need to finish the job. In that way when you make that onling order or take a long trip to the suppliers you can be sure you've got everything and you won't be in the middle of a job and find you've forgotten to order something! |
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The Millenium Volcon"Get yourself a Volvo if that's what you really want, you might be dead next year. In the meantime, you could be going sideways in a gigantic land barge."
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Apr 12, 2016 20:43:59 GMT
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Thanks jiff and mini, really useful. Going to make a list tonight I think. Also going to bite the bullet and buy the Weber 32/34 as it will be be more reliable plus help me learn more about the carb/fuel system. Had another tinker around earlier although I've still no idea what I'm doing. Managed to fire the engine up without jacking to the fiesta, and the battery light goes out once she's running, so hopefully that means the alternator is tickety-boo. Still running like absolute crud though. Some interesting/scary things also happened. Got the engine idling ok for a few mins - new thermostat installed and pipes working ok but still just using water to check for leaks. Don't fancy wasting 25 quids worth of coolant if a pipe isn't on right. Got warm pretty quick, and after a few mins the temp gauge went to full on screaming hot red and a very loud screaming noise started coming from somewhere. I didn't leave the engine running log enough to find out. It was a similar sound to when you miss a gear while driving; a crunching angry sound, but higher pitched I think. Possibly related to this, the radiator and top pipes were roasting hot (almost too hot to touch) but the rad fan never came on. The pipes on the underside of the car where the thermostat sits were still cool, leaving me to think the thermostat never opened. I don't know if it should have at any point - it's rated at 87 degrees so not sure if the engine quite got there. Do you think I should empty it of all water now and add coolant and see what happens? After it cooled down slightly I turned it back on and the noise had gone, but appeared again a few mins later. Bit odd. Anyway. Cooled a bit more and decided to try a method above for testing the gears. Engine on in 1st gear, jolted forward, and the was a clunk and the clutch freed itself. 1st gear and clutch now feel almost 'regular' in terms of pulling away, as documented below  First time she's moved under her own steam in over 20 years. Running like curse word a you can hear, have to apply revs to keep the engine going here. Although sometimes she idles for several mins sounding fairly healthy. Anyway, I'll take this as a positive for the moment. Now I need to write a list! Any comments would be much appreciated! Thanks so much |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Apr 12, 2016 21:01:29 GMT
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Sounds like you may have had an air lock under the thermostat, possibly it should have a bleed hole in the stat which the new one is missing. The other possability is the water pump has failed or you have a major blockage, after standing for a long time the coolant tends to crystallize, it might be worth running it up for a few minutes without the stat to flush some water through the system.
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Apr 12, 2016 21:49:34 GMT
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Glad that worked to free the clutch.Doesn't always work first time so for once you got lucky !
The screaming noise sounds like it could be a bearing,water pump failure and partially nipping up or something?
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Apr 12, 2016 21:56:11 GMT
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So, a quick primer on Car cooling systems hereWould tend to agree with kevins that you've had a stuck thermostat or airlock. If the stat doesn't open, the engine can't get cool water, so continues to heat the heated water. The noise was probably the pressure cap venting under protest. So, first things first - Take the thermostat out and compare it with the old one - Do they look the same? (hint: this is where that pictures thing can help). Where's the thermostat located on the engine? Antifreeze at this stage isn't going to make any difference - Once we're up and running though, you'll need it. Next time you start it up, as it warms up, feel the top hose and radiator (Keeping fingers away from the fan of course). It should warm up evenly, radiator should hot at the top, cooler to the bottom - Cold areas could indicate a blocked radiator. You've mentioned previously you've flushed the system - Did you back flush it? That is, did you have your hosepipe in the bottom hose and the thermostat out? If you're going to flush it again, let the engine cool down first! Totally agree with saving for the weber - Peirburg carbs we're the best, even when they were working! Have you checked the dynamic timing now its running? With a timing light? If not, get it added to "the list" However, overall, cracking progress! |
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Apr 13, 2016 13:40:53 GMT
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Ok cheers guys.
The thermostat I bought was from the part number off the old one - dimensions all look the same but I will double check tonight. It's located at the very bottom of the engine block, connecting directly (via one pipe) to the bottom of the radiator.
I've flushed the system multiple times with fresh water from a hose (with engine on, thermostat out and heaters on full blast inside). I was putting the water straight into the radiator reservoir/coolant cap hole at the top and letting it flush out the final pipe connection the thermostat housing to the bottom of the radiator. Was this wrong? Should I instead force the water in at the very bottom (blocking up any gaps with a rag) into the thermostat housing (therefore into the engine block) so it flows from the top of the radiator/coolant cap?
The noise sure didn't sound like air venting, much more mechanical, but I'm no expert.
From what I can remember the bottom of the radiator wasn't screaming hot - I could touch it. Should the 'cold' water from the rad flow from the bottom of the rad, to the thermostat, and into the engine block, or vice versa?
Also the fan never turned on so I don't know it it works. If I find some wire and wire up both terminals directly to my battery terminals, should it fire up? Or is this dangerous/stupid? How might I test my water pump too? There appeared to be lots of water movement at the top of the rad (cap off) but this might have just been hot water convection.
And as for timing, I'm very nervous about having the engine running while coolant system is dodgy! Will focus on that once I know it't not going to blow up.
Cars are confusing!
Also, I WILL put some pictures up tonight!!
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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village
Part of things
Always carries a toolbox. Because Volkswagen.......
Posts: 567
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Apr 13, 2016 14:54:43 GMT
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could the noise be the engine cooling fan? the one on my old mk1 golf diesel screamed like a banshee because the bearings were shot
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"The White Van is strong with this one...."
Chris "Chesney" Allen 1976-2005 RIP
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Apr 13, 2016 15:06:46 GMT
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In its most basic format, the water flow normally goes from the bottom of the radiator, through the engine block (where the heat from ignition heats it, through the heater circuit and out of the top hose, to the top of rad, where air flowing through the radiator cools it.
Thermostat location doesn't matter - its just preventing cool water from circulating until it's hit a preset temperature.
Reverse flushing is just that - You push the water through the system "the wrong way" round. From the bottom hose, up through the engine and out of the engine. It helps to dislodge accumulated garbage Ideally you should see clear water coming out. Don't do it with the engine running.
You could test the fan by finding the fan switch (haynes manual will tell you where it is, remove the connector and bridge the pins on the connector. You may need the ignition on for it to work.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:29:11 GMT
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water flow normally goes from the bottom of the radiator, through the engine block (where the heat from ignition heats it, through the heater circuit and out of the top hose, to the top of rad, where air flowing through the radiator cools it. Reverse flushing is just that - You push the water through the system "the wrong way" round. From the bottom hose, up through the engine and out of the engine. Cheers jiff. Tad confused though. If normal flow goes from the bottom of the radiator and through the engine block, and a reverse flush also goes from the bottom hose and through the radiator, how exactly is this reverse? It's exactly the same direction. I pulled the thermostat anyway and did what you said, flushed water from the bottom into the thermostat housing and then onto the bottom of the engine block, to the top of the engine and back into the top of the radiator (and then out the bottom of the radiator onto the ground). Water all nice and clean from what I can see. Ran the engine for a bit (after advice from a friend) and the water flowing out the bottom of the rad was constantly slightly warm. This makes me think there are no blockages anywhere in the system. The original 'stat part number for the WV/Audi thermo is 056 121 113 D, the part I ordered was Quinton Hazell Thermostat QTH481K from micksgarage as it was recommended for the 1.6 Passat '79. Same operating temps, both plates look the same diameter. Very slightly different heights and design but I can't see that making much difference. Both seals are the same size too. Car currently sat with an empty coolant system (not going to run it like that) and no thermostat in. Not really sure what my next step is.  |
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Last Edit: Apr 13, 2016 20:36:44 GMT by arsonist
1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Apr 13, 2016 20:32:45 GMT
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With the battery disconnected try spinning the fan, it should freely spin, if they aren't regularly used they tend to corrode up.
not meaning to insult you but you are sure the stat is in the right way round, If it is like the early golfs the bulb goes up.
During warm up coolant should flow through the bypass and heater hose, once this circuit reaches the operating temp the thermostat opens and coolant flows through the radiator, are these hoses getting hot?
After 20 years not running I suspect the noise is the water pump seals and bearings they don't like standing for ages.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:46:46 GMT
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With the battery disconnected try spinning the fan, it should freely spin, if they aren't regularly used they tend to corrode up. not meaning to insult you but you are sure the stat is in the right way round, If it is like the early golfs the bulb goes up. During warm up coolant should flow through the bypass and heater hose, once this circuit reaches the operating temp the thermostat opens and coolant flows through the radiator, are these hoses getting hot? After 20 years not running I suspect the noise is the water pump seals and bearings they don't like standing for ages. Just added image of old a new. And yep it only fits in with bulb up as the removable part of the 'stat housing only has a very small amount of space before it narrows. No way the bulb would fit in there. Fan also spins freely with battery disconnected. Which bit is the bypass lol? I'm guessing it's where the thermostat housing is? House is being decorated so Haynes is currently MIA  From what I felt yesterday, every hose was hot except the very bottom one connecting the bottom of the radiator to the thermostat housing. |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Apr 13, 2016 21:32:01 GMT
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The by pass will be a hose which comes out of the housing above the thermostat and goes to the top of the engine probably teed to same housing as the top hose, the heater circuit is usually in parallel to it. The idea is that with the stat closed the water pump pushes water up through the engine and cylinder head then back down through the by pass to the rear (inlet) of the water pump and then back around again. As the stat opens the disc on the top of the stat rises and blanks off the bypass forcing the the coolant to flow from the radiator instead.
This is based on the golf but it sounds the same.
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Last Edit: Apr 13, 2016 21:33:03 GMT by kevins
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Apr 13, 2016 22:24:33 GMT
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Cheers jiff. Tad confused though. If normal flow goes from the bottom of the radiator and through the engine block, and a reverse flush also goes from the bottom hose and through the radiator, how exactly is this reverse? It's exactly the same direction.style="max-width:100%;" alt=""] Ah My bad there - Should have said "From the bottom hose, up through the radiator and out of the engine." May have missed it but why did you change the original thermostat? |
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Last Edit: Apr 13, 2016 22:24:51 GMT by jifflemon
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Apr 15, 2016 12:48:32 GMT
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Helloooooo. So I did ANOTHER flush yesterday in reverse, water seemed nice and clean coming out. Got the new thermostat back in (was suggested by a variety of people to replace it) - god I hate that job, took me so long as the bolts are between 10 and 9mm and are under the engine so need a spanner hammering on to tighten them, and can only turn about 1/5th turn each time! Bah! I also jumped the fan directly to the battery for a split second and it spun up so I know that's working. However the temp sensor might not be, which is why the fan didn't spin up when it got hot. Question - is the temperature gauge on the dash connected to the temp sensor that runs the fan? I.e. if the needle on the dash works (and points to HOT after the engine runs for a while) does that mean the sensor is working? Might just have been the the water didn't reach the specified 90 degrees at the bottom of the rad for the sensor to short and start the fan. Also fired up while flushing yesterday (was constant cold water flowing through the system). Tweaked my timing on the dizzy with strobe light, but the Haynes said to check the markings on the flywheel. As far as I can see, the only marking there is TDC; the fabled 9degrees never showed, so either the manual is wrong or the markings have vanished over time. I guessed 9 degrees from the camshaft and bolted the dizzy there, but having just worked out 9 degrees on a circle I drew, I'm waaaaay out lol. But it sounded MUCH happier advancing it even slightly. What's the best way to determine 9 degrees BTDC on the cam? I can then make a corresponding mark on the valve cover to set it in future. Also when running (with the coolant system 'sealed' and using water) shall I just power through the scary loud noise and see if it stops? I don't want to blow the head gasket or warp anything. Or do I take the possible hit and fill up with coolant to test this? There's a chance it will have to be drained if the temp sensor is goosed! Really sorry for the constant essays and stupid questions guys. I really do appreciate all your help with this. I'll have to send you all some beers or something once I'm done |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Apr 18, 2016 22:50:12 GMT
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Hi again all. Had another crack with he engine tonight. Readjusted dizzy to 9 degrees BTDC and seems to fire up healthily and happily every time now without all the lumps and stalls. Filled the coolant system with water again and got up to temp. Checked pipes etc for heat, eventually felt the bottom of the rad heat up so thermo should be working. Fan also pinged into life after 20 mins of idling, so I know that's all OK now. 2 things went wrong though...  Heater valve broke, the solid plastic piping literally snapped after being touched while I was tightening the dizzy clamp, must have been brittle from the high heat. Got boiling water all over my hand so that's hurting like a curse word now, very red and swollen! Searched for the part number 321819809 but having no luck finding one with the dual split output as photoed.  curse word Note the actual snapped plastic on the top piping. Anybody got any ideas? Can I buy the single output and just add on a 17.5mm splitter? Where might one buy such a thing? Second, the thermo housing seems to be leaking when under pressure.  Steamy water  The culprit (looking directly up from the ground). The very middle bolt dripped a fair bit initially but seemed to stop entirely. I just can't tighten the bolt much more as it's between 10mm and 9mm, so slips 10 and 9 won't go on! I'll wait and see if it carries on leaking next time I fill up and put the system under pressure. And finally just a few as I've not really posted many images. Sorry, quality sucks!  Oldschool radio  The workshop (only tool storage I have!)  Pretty cool seatbelt mechanisms.  Needs a tidy up!. Will probably powder coat the valve cover and air filter cover in the mustard yellow once everything is done. Cheers! |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Sounds like pretty good progress,well on the way to a working cooling system.Has the screaming noise gone now? If the bolt head on the housing is rounded nip down to a hardware store and match up a bolt of the right length and thread.If it's supposed to be a 10mm head it will be an M6 bolt. Love that radio btw  |
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mad
Part of things
Posts: 126
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Apr 19, 2016 10:17:04 GMT
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Made some real progress there, few more evenings and you should be ready for the open road.
Have you managed to make a list of everything left to do before the MOT?
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Apr 19, 2016 10:57:20 GMT
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Made some real progress there, few more evenings and you should be ready for the open road. Have you managed to make a list of everything left to do before the MOT? Not yet, I guess partly because I don't know yet what constitutes as an MOT fail. Will jot down a list of everything I think needs doing in a bit. Also got some feelers out to a USA company for the 3 way heater valve as they've supposedly got one left in stick, hopefully it's the right one. If not it will have to be t piece split. And yes the screaming noise seems to have stopped thankfully! |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Apr 19, 2016 11:10:58 GMT
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I missed a load of updates on this - well done with the progress you've made so far.
For bolts there is place on Sealand who do good quality bolts, if you know where CES is, turn into that road, go past the CES entrance and then just after the next right turn there is a good place for tools and bolts - the bolt entrance is on the front (can't remember the name off the top of my head which is really annoying since I get all sorts of bits and pieces from them).
If you've had the 'stat in and out a few times you may need a smear of sealant around the mating faces of the housing to stop the leak.
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First time she's moved under her own steam in over 20 years.
From what I felt yesterday, every hose was hot except the very bottom one connecting the bottom of the radiator to the thermostat housing.