pork
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Posts: 1,661
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Jan 27, 2014 18:54:04 GMT
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I'm completely lost as to which one I need Basically wanna swap out my turbo bike carbs and dizzy, to EFI and mapped ignition Engine is a 1.3 So any advice on which version I need please ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Jan 27, 2014 19:16:00 GMT
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If you want the cheapest possible the MS1 on the version 2.2 board will do the job. You'll need EDIS for the ignition but that's not a great problem on a 4 pot.
If you want the least possible messing with electronics then Microsquirt is probably the one.
For anything else, MS2 on version 3.0 hardware has most of the bells and whistles (and what it doesn't have can be added). You can use EDIS for the ignition or add another ignition driver (easy) to fire a wasted spark coil pack directly.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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pork
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Jan 27, 2014 19:16:59 GMT
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
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Jan 27, 2014 19:21:52 GMT
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There's 3 main revisions of Megasquirt; 1,2 and 3. But each main option, by it's very open source nature, has numerous firmware options which give different features. On top of this the amount of assembly and soldering required ranges from a bag of components and bare circuit board to a complete plug&play ecu. To add insult to injury some suppliers use their own naming conventions that won't match the manuals…. I'm about to build my 4th Megasquirt (the 7th vehicle I'll have been involved with using squirt!) and I use www.diyautotune.com religiously. They are american based but really really helpful guys and the parts arrived really well packed and lab led making life easy, all for a good price with the exchange rate too. So really I'd say get on www.megamanual.com, www.msextra.com and www.msefi.com and get reading! From personal experience of doing it the hard way, if you follow someones guide letter for letter and just kinda 'paint by numbers' to end up with a working car it's all well and good but if it hoe's wrong or you want to modify anything you run into trouble. It's harder work but working your way through the hardware and software manuals on msextra.com really means you have an understand of why you need to make 'this' modification and why you pick 'that' build option. That said…for pretty much any retro car I'd be looking at using the Megasquirt 2 hardware with the MS2extra firmware. MS3 has got some nice features but a lot of the real gains are for very high performance cars and modern cars (can bus etc) and it just adds unneeded complications for a first time user IMO. EDIT: That ECU in the eBay link is a Megasquirt 1 ECU on the V3 board (cost about £180 new if unassembled), which will happily run your engine but won't have some of the useful options that ms2 has. MS2 runs at higher resolution, has better input signal filtering/smoothing options, has better acceleration enrichment options and better options for starting and warm up running. The circuit board on that ECU will have been modified specifically to work with the 1.8t engine sensors, so you'd either need to find a way to use the VW crank angle sensor and stuff, or get in there and change some components on the board to match your micros set-up anyway. Again if it were me I'd say build it from scratch, you get the ECU just right for your car with no compromises and have a better understanding of whats going on along the way.
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Last Edit: Jan 27, 2014 19:37:23 GMT by goldnrust
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Jan 27, 2014 19:25:29 GMT
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oops, forgot you were running bike carbs (& it's in your thread title!) +1 what Nick said, cheapest is the old MS1 in DIY kit form and solder it together yourself, you could keep the dizzy with mapped advance or switch to an EDIS-4 coilpack setup.
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Jan 27, 2014 19:32:12 GMT
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wouldn't advise buying a used megasquirt [especially when the price is more than a new DIY assembly kit or microsquirt!]
Check out ExtraEfi.co.uk and diyoutotune.com, and triggerwheels.com for loom components, EDIS & coilpacks (& microsquirt)
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
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Jan 27, 2014 19:41:39 GMT
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Megasquirt is so flexible, it will run any coil pack, and read any crank angle sensor. Especially if you're building your own there's no reason to stick to EDIS. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Last Edit: Jan 27, 2014 19:44:16 GMT by goldnrust
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pork
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Jan 27, 2014 19:59:35 GMT
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Brilliant, thanks
What sensors would I need to go with it?
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pork
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Jan 27, 2014 19:59:43 GMT
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Brilliant, thanks
What sensors would I need to go with it?
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Jan 28, 2014 12:23:43 GMT
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for MS1 with EDIS ignition - 36-1 trigger wheel & sensor on the crank. For MS2 with twin coil-drivers fitted (or microsquirt) you can use any known trigger wheel pattern & sensor. You can use pretty much any inlet air temperature (IAT) and coolant temperature sensors(CLT) from an Efi-era car & if you can't find their resistance tables on the web, you can do your own tables by testing the resistance at various temperatures. MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) reads the inlet pressure and calculates air flow - suggest 3 Bar GM type (will read up to 29.4psi, if you want to boost over that you'll need a 4 bar MAP) Throttle position sensor (TPS) again from any Efi era car and probably free on the side of whatever throttle body you use, megasguirt software (megatune) can calibrate any TPS automatically. Most of those could be robbed from the Micra K11 Efi
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pork
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Jan 28, 2014 13:28:16 GMT
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Thanks ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Where's best place to get a new ms2 kit?
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RobinJI
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"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
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Jan 28, 2014 20:38:58 GMT
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I would (and did) go with www.diyautotune.com as GoldNRust suggests. They were great with my kit, as he says, cheap, well packaged and helpful. Other than the price being too much to bother with in my opinion, the 1.8t set-up could work, management wise they're fairly straightforward once converted to a single coilpack (72 tooth trigger wheel iirc, and common Bosch sensors) the only unusual thing's the stepper motor throttle body used to control idle, but that could easily be retrofitted to your engine, and is quite a neat solution to idle control. Personally I'd build a new one up though. As has been said, it'll mean you know and understand the system, which is a hugely useful position to be in if you want to play with your engine.
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pork
Posted a lot
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Thanks, been taking to them, just waiting on few replies
Didn't realise you have to assemble every little piece on it!!
How hard/long did you find to build it up?
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
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It took me about 10 hours to assemble the first one I made, part of the learning curve will be soldering circuit boards if it's not something you've done before. I would recommend buying the megasquirt Stim at the same time as the kit. Firstly it's a smaller and easier board to build, which is nice gentle start to circuit board soldering, and secondly it'll allow you to power up the megasquirt on the bench and simulate various sensor inputs, and read off what outputs the megasquirt is sending. It's really useful for testing and debugging. David, like everyone has said to Pork, I wouldn't buy an unknown pre-built Megasquirt unless you've got plenty of experience with it. The one you linked to could be anything they all sit inside the same case. There shouldn't be a problem running that engine an configuration off either Ms1 or Ms2, both with the 'extra' firmware updates, or off Ms3. Watch out for using V2/v3 as in megasquirt this is used to identify the various circuit board updates that have happened, this is independent of the ECU itself. Put it this way, this is a list of ignition input set-ups that have write ups on the msextra documentation…. ( www.msextra.com/doc/index.html ) Ford EDIS Ordinary Distributor GM HEI, GMDIS Trigger Return Distributor Ford TFI Missing Tooth Wheel (e.g. Ford Zetec/Duratec, etc 36-1, BMW 60-2, etc) Dual Wheel LS1 (24X) Trigger LS2 (58X) Trigger Oddfire Distributor Neon/420A Next Gen Neon (36-2+2) Nippondenso 24 tooth CASes (e.g. Toyota, Honda, Mazda) Subaru - RX8 (36-2-2-2) 99-00 Miata Mitsubushi DOHC 6cyl (6G72) IAW Weber-Marelli Subaru 6/7 4/1 CAS Mitsubishi 4G63 - Miata (4/2 CAS) Renault (Renix 44-2-2) Twin Trigger Suzuki Swift Distributor Suzuki Vitara 2.0 Daihatsu 3, 4 cylinder And those are just the ones with write-ups, ask on the forums or do some research into what type of trigger is being used (hall, optical, VR, etc) and there's no reason why you can't set it up on anything.
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Last Edit: Jan 30, 2014 15:42:58 GMT by goldnrust
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steveg
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Jan 30, 2014 11:38:52 GMT
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I have been thinking of doing something similar as well. I've got a 1.1 106 and it has SPI. I was thinking that if I could get it to run using all the original sensors and adding a MAP sensor I could just make an adaptor lead to go from the OE plug. This way when I mess up adjustiong it I can just plug the old ecu back in. It's really just a project to learn how to do it but it will hopefully make it go a bit better and do away with the nasty immobiliser thats just waiting to play up.
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
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Jan 30, 2014 15:43:22 GMT
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That sort of set-up, using stock loom with adapter + a vac hose back to the onboard MAP sensor in Megasquirt, is exactly how most mx5s use Megasquirt. I helped a friend do the same to his mk1 mr2 a few weeks back too. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Buy an old knackered ECU for your Peugeot, cut it up to get the right connector to connect to your loom and wire that into the Megasquirt. If you leave the stock wiring alone to start wit then if you run into any problems you can always just plug the stock ECU back in.
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steveg
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Jan 30, 2014 19:28:10 GMT
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Good idea with the Old ECU. Might as well make the old one into a nice sealed enclosure for the connector plus it looks standard. If I do actually get round to doing it I will probably have more questions, thanks.
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pork
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Jan 30, 2014 20:03:21 GMT
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Should I bother with the sequential or batch injection?
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
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Jan 30, 2014 21:02:46 GMT
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Sequential injection will net you some smoothness and extra efficiency. It's most noticeable at low RPM and small throttle openings. On the downside you need to make various modifications to the Megasquirt to build 4 individual injector output channels, rather than the stock 2. You also need to make sure your ignition input sensor can give you cam position as well as/instead of crank position. For a build on a small capacity inline 4 turbo, I'd not worry about it. With injection you're likely to gain a fair amount of economy over carbs anyway and it just over complicates things for a first time build. When you build your own Megasquirt you can always start with the basics, then modify it and make it more advanced over time. In fact doing that it one of the best things about Megasquirt. So if after you've got it up and running you think you'd like to switch to sequential it's probably a couple of hours soldering and a bit of re-mapping ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Looking at the rest of your build, in time I'm sure you'll want to turn on the launch control and flat foot shifting/anti-lag for that flame spitting rally car moments. It was certainly fun in my turbo mx5! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Last Edit: Jan 30, 2014 21:04:02 GMT by goldnrust
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