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Apparenly those Routemaster busses they scrapped were more environmentally friendly overall than the new busses they have instead... I can easily believe that - weren't they a lot lighter than the current ones? IIRC, they also all were fitted with modern engines at one of the overhauls, so emissions shouldn't have been an issue. Routemasters were also loads better for keeping the traffic moving - probably why they were removed from service   |
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 9:36:45 GMT by Paul H
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Routemasters were very efficient to run...
Obviously their initial investment was paid off years ago... and they were very easy and cheap to maintain - engine swap inside an hour? No problem.
And just think of the 'iconic imagae' - great for pulling in the tourist buck. Oh, and yes they used less fuel and produced less harmful emmissions than a bendy bus (despite being a bit sooty!)
But we must live in an 'inclusive society', and routemasters were curse word for wheelchair access etc... oh and accountants didn't like the fact that the are 'two man' operation, because that 'costs more' (despite making it a safer environment for passangers and thus negating the need for expensive CCTV.....)
What a load of old cock, huh?
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Agree with the rest of your statement,.. but this : But we must live in an 'inclusive society', and routemasters were curse word for wheelchair access etc... Is out of line,.. it implys that we shouldn't be an 'inclusive society', how the hell would a wheelchair bound friend be able to get to work if he couldn't take the bus? Ride a bike? |
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Agree with the rest of your statement,.. but this : But we must live in an 'inclusive society', and routemasters were curse word for wheelchair access etc... Is out of line,.. it implys that we shouldn't be an 'inclusive society', how the hell would a wheelchair bound friend be able to get to work if he couldn't take the bus? Ride a bike? So are you saying we should all lose out for the sake of a minority (whoever that minority may be) and that the Routemasters, despite being an icon recognised the world over, were quite correctly removed from service as they werent able to cater for all 'persons' of all abilities ? |
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 10:02:14 GMT by superden
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Nov 15, 2006 10:05:14 GMT
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too right they should!!
I like the old routemaster buses no doubt about that. But if they are not compatible with wheelchair access then its time up for them. What are you saying exactly? Sorry but the need of london to keep an 'iconic style of bus' is of greater importance than providing mobility for its disabled residents?
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 10:07:17 GMT by Mr_Bo11ox
1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT! |
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Nov 15, 2006 10:15:47 GMT
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Retro rides, the home of modified classic, those old busses need modifying! or how about like the newer London Taxi, something similar. I guess we need our identity as we aint got much else going for us - probably!  |
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 it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts  |
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Nov 15, 2006 10:19:12 GMT
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I hadn't thought of the disability issue. But then 1. how much easier are modern busses for wheel chair access? Last time I was on a bus (yesterday in fact  ) I wouldn't have been able to get my father in law on there, no way, and that was a modern "kneeling" bus. 2. how many wheelchair users actually use busses anyway - see point above. 3. I guess the elderly and people with lesser impairments can use busses better than the wheelchair users, but surely you could adapt the loading deck area on theback of a RouteMaster much easier than you can the forward entry on a modern style of bus. Just compare the available opening area on the old Routemasters... You could probably make them wheelchair accesible with a bit of tin snipping and a drop down ramp. There are listed buildings where diasbled access has been incorporated without causing an issue to the listed status. (ie change of character or appearance, use of non-authentic matierials, etc.) |
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,538
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Nov 15, 2006 10:21:25 GMT
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Retro rides, the home of modified classic, those old busses need modifying!  There you go then  ;D It was a real shame to see the routemasters go but as has been said it was mroe for access purpses than pollution. There's still a couple of "tourist" routes though the centre that use them. Since the Tube network is almost 100% wheelchair unfriendly (and not exactly easy with a buggy either) making the buses accessable is the only way. I did always get a kick out of seeing pre letter suffix registered vehicles still in regular use though. edited to answer a couple of AK's points. Newer buses (and I think some older ones are retro-fitted) have ramps that come out from floor level at the rear (usually exit) doors for wheelchair users to "drive" straight in. |
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 10:24:13 GMT by Seth
Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Nov 15, 2006 10:33:44 GMT
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Yes you can there are firms everywhere doing this plus government grants are handed out (and quite rightly so with regards to something such as this) for the conversion. My father sometimes drives a bus (totally voluntary work) for people in 'unfortunate circumstances' (sorry for use of phrase but I just don't know what to use in out 'PC' world for people with mental and physical problems  ) and the mechanisims can be adapted for any 'Coach body vehicle'.  |
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Nov 15, 2006 10:38:54 GMT
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too right they should!! I like the old routemaster buses no doubt about that. But if they are not compatible with wheelchair access then its time up for them. What are you saying exactly? Sorry but the need of london to keep an 'iconic style of bus' is of greater importance than providing mobility for its disabled residents? So whats wrong with serving both groups ? They used (IIRC) the issue of disabled access as a supporting reason for scrapping the entire Routemaster fleet. Thats a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. There were other reasons for removing these buses from service (none of which I agree with) but to suggest that they should all be scrapped purely because a minority are unable to use them is wrong. They could have introduced newer vehicles to cater for all people (though modern buses are still difficult to access for wheelchair users) and kept the Routemasters in service, with modifications if necessary. Its just another example of using PC arguments to justify the current 'out with the old, if its not modern its sh*t' attitude thats evident almost everywhere you go. Disabled access is poor in most private hire taxis, should we scrap all of those ? After all, they provide a much needed transport service too. |
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 10:46:46 GMT by superden
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Nov 15, 2006 10:59:14 GMT
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There's no doubt that wheelchair bound people should be able to use buses, however the iconic status of the Routemaster should have been kept out of respect for our own herritage. However I guess this would have resulted in an updated modern version of the Routemaster and the beard sniffers would still be up in arms about it.
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Nov 15, 2006 11:16:45 GMT
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So whats wrong with serving both groups ? They used (IIRC) the issue of disabled access as a supporting reason for scrapping the entire Routemaster fleet. Thats a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. There were other reasons for removing these buses from service (none of which I agree with) but to suggest that they should all be scrapped purely because a minority are unable to use them is wrong. They might be a minority in wider society, but in the subset of people that use buses on a regular occasion they wouldn't be such a small minority. I had this same issue with making NHS websites accesible, so they don't look so good for most users but the visually impared and people using alternative input devices can use them easily. For Retro rides thats not an issue, but for the NHS where these people are more likely to require the services and the fact that its a public service mean it has to be accesible for everyone. Now who is going to build a hopping version of the new kneeling buses. |
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Nov 15, 2006 11:28:24 GMT
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For Retro rides thats not an issue. Erm, I'm sure thats not the case. The Disability Discrimination Act is not restricted to NHS or similar websites. The full accessibility guidelinies only apply to government websites (and many of them fail to meet the guidelines at the moment) but our law is a fairly close copy of the US law under which private companies and organisations have been prosecuted already stateside. What happens there happens here sooner or later. The arguemnt is that if a disabled person is interested in retro cars why should they be discriminated against by the people who run the site in that there is no accessibility for them to access its content? Human Rights Act has something to say on this topic as well. Most well designed websites will meet basic accessibility requirements anyway. Making statements that its "not an issue" could land you in warm mater. DDA is a hot topic where I work. |
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Nov 15, 2006 11:39:01 GMT
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DDA is a hot topic where I work. It was where I used to work,.. even in my current job I've just come back from Barcelona where I was in a number of lectures at a Microsoft conference about it all and I have a lovely white paper to read through as well However I'm of the opinion that you take a view on these issues, if yo uare a public service then you have to conform 100% to these rules.. if you are a private individual doing something then it is up to you if you want to loose the business you might recieve from disabilities. This is a personal view though... As it happens this site is pretty accesibile and the new forum (no I hadn't forgotten about that) is much more so. My point being that our audience is less likely to contain visual style disabilities than say RNIB's site.... This is straying Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic btw... |
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 11:39:21 GMT by HoTWire
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) I wouldn't have been able to get my father in law on there, no way, and that was a modern "kneeling" bus.
;D
) and the mechanisims can be adapted for any 'Coach body vehicle'.
