Shortcut
Posted a lot
I won't be there when you cross the road, so always use the Green Cross Code.
Posts: 3,037
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Oct 19, 2006 13:30:30 GMT
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I don't see a positive in this at all.. Ok so they might (and it's just a might) keep some of the production in the UK. This might goto exsisting companies, it might not. If new companies are setup instead of TVR Ltd for eg, they change the name to TVR Cars Ltd, and register a new company, they will get all sorts of grants tax breaks etc from the UK Gov, as they will be classed as a startup company. Once the tax breaks are over and any incentives they have been given run out they will just dash over another town and move on. TVR will no longer be a hancrafted British product, it will be a amalgamation (Spelling?) of parts built to a price and not to a quality, and using a once great name to market this worldwide. The UK is not set up because of the wibblepoo Government that we have in place, we need to import everything now, from the raw ingredients to products and the workforce as well. All to support the fragile UK economy. TVR, could/should have been a big name, and off the back of the film Swordfish alone TVR had thousands of enquiry's from the USA.... Oh what could have been... ha ha! You used the words TVR and quality in the same post! ;D |
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Last Edit: Oct 19, 2006 13:30:47 GMT by Shortcut
This space available to rent. Reach literally dozens of people. Cheap rates!
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Oct 19, 2006 13:31:34 GMT
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A comment was made about stuff coming back to the UK eventually. Maybe but not in our or our kids' life time. My company runs the production out in Czech now and there are hundreds of factories out there doing the same. I now they could shift to Poland, Hungary, Romania etc. when things get pricey (as has been talked about). That's without even considering Russia. China will be the manufacturing power house for many years to come and I don't fancy anyones chances of getting together a union system out there that the big players will take notice of. All we have to look forward to in this country are job losses & factory closures while they throw up housing estates quicker than you can fart. Bit of a rant but I'm done now, JB Not to go off on a political tangent,.. but,.. the reason Honda, Toyota and Nissan are in this country for the quality of work that comes out of the factories here. In fact Toyota sell the UK built cars back in Japan as specials because the workmanship has a reputation for being so good. The problem with manufacturering in the UK is that most companies haven't invested in agile process and internal system modelling and review in order to improve business practice. They are not as profitable as they could be and are simply too short sighted to keep the jobs in the UK and improve the facilities here to the point where they are massively profitable (whereas Nissan et al have done EXACTLY this and are reaping the rewards),.. instead Uk manufactuering offshores to Eastern Europe or China and just have more returns of broken goods/parts, but thats okay because short term it costs them less money to accept those losses... problem is their reputation starts to go down hill so their long term viability is compromised,.. see Sony  ... but the current MDs etc. don't care about that because they will retire on a big fat paycheque when the company goes to the wall in 4-5 years time... Welcome JB |
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Oct 19, 2006 13:34:05 GMT
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This has really hit a nerve with me, as we had something similar happen were i live.
Chungua (Spelling) Picture tube factory moved into our area, built a purpose built factory, state of the art using Scottish Enterprise money and got rate and rent free land in a new industrial park for three years.
After the time had run out on the free rates and the free rent, they closed the factory and laid all the people off. The factory has lain empty for over three years now, and no sign of anyone taking it on...
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Oct 19, 2006 13:34:32 GMT
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Hi Jason, thats my worry. at least some of the call centres are coming back!!!  like nightmares said, look what we can build in our garages! see red victor one +help  wonder whats achievable with the right team on a production line...  |
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 it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts  |
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Oct 19, 2006 13:35:28 GMT
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I don't see a positive in this at all.. Ok so they might (and it's just a might) keep some of the production in the UK. This might goto exsisting companies, it might not. If new companies are setup instead of TVR Ltd for eg, they change the name to TVR Cars Ltd, and register a new company, they will get all sorts of grants tax breaks etc from the UK Gov, as they will be classed as a startup company. Once the tax breaks are over and any incentives they have been given run out they will just dash over another town and move on. TVR will no longer be a hancrafted British product, it will be a amalgamation (Spelling?) of parts built to a price and not to a quality, and using a once great name to market this worldwide. The UK is not set up because of the wibblepoo Government that we have in place, we need to import everything now, from the raw ingredients to products and the workforce as well. All to support the fragile UK economy. TVR, could/should have been a big name, and off the back of the film Swordfish alone TVR had thousands of enquiry's from the USA.... Oh what could have been... ha ha! You used the words TVR and quality in the same post! ;D D'you know I knew someone would pick that up. ;D |
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JasonB
Part of things
Posts: 134
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Oct 19, 2006 14:00:59 GMT
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Fair play UK workmanship (in the manufacturing industry) is very good. The main reason the Japanese plants came here was government incentives to put the factories where they are. The areas were normally un-employment blackspots following coal mine, steel works, ship industry closures. The fact that these places went on to be asource of good, hardworking and loyal staff was a major bonus.
Not sure about shortsightedness within UK companies (I've worked for this Japanese co. for the last 15 years) but there are an awful lot of new ideas that come in and get tried some work some don't - some places will not even bother after a few failures.
Changes cost money at the end of the day and the UK doesn't have many big players any more to throw money at things.
True about the MD's who just look after their own intersts - MG / Rover management pension contributions??
The picture tube factory example sounds familiar. My work is TV's and the way the market turned overnight from CRT (the big glass tubes) to the new LCDs caught everyone out. LG / Phillips got burned down here in South Wales with the biggest factory you've seen - it was going to be a manufacturing village with re-routed rail links, all their suppliers in the vacinity and employing thousands. All of a sudden no one wanted the tubed TV's. The goverment money was just wasted it's now sat empty and in all likelyhood will continue to do so as no one in this country can afford to run a facility that size.
My company had to cancel the designs of new models, hastily re-configure prodcution lines etc and then just stopped making any CRT TV's full stop. The big boys in the LCD / plasma panels are the Koreans / Japs and you can bet they'll keep hold of things over there and in China for a few years.
Incidently all Chinese manufacturing companies that send stuff here will not accept any returns - if parts are faulty they simply investigate a sample then send out an entire replacment batch. Once it's left they wash their hands of it.
Suppose it won't be too bad if they do that with any cars they decide to import - I'll be 1st in the queue if theres a batch of Chinese government style limos that get rejected at the dockside!!
JB
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1977 Kawasaki Z650
1983 Ford Fiesta (Project)
1985 Kawasaki GPz900R
1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo
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guy
Part of things
Posts: 352
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Oct 19, 2006 14:21:28 GMT
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Build a shonky product and its cheaper to build that same shonky product overseas... see Rover and TVR for reference. Build a quality product and people will keep their business here,.. see Toyota and Honda for reference... There ain't no problem with rovers, u need to get a grip, and look past the Bullplop that the media feeds everyone!!! Its the British public thats to blame for the downfall of British industry, were a bunch of pushovers, we wont buy any thing British, cus its expensive. This is not because of the manufacturers its the taxes whacked on by the government that we elected!!!!! Look at the French, Germans and Italians they all drive cars produced in their own countries. almost every car on the road in anyone of the countries is made it that country!!!! But as soon as a Rover breaks down it makes f**kin headlines in the national papers not helped popular motoring media (top-gear etc). i hate this self-destruct mode that the British public have adopted. Look its now Tvr, but is anyone going to do anything about it?? I doubt it, everyone will just let it slide. and then the money from selling the Tvr's in their main market (england!) will help to improve the economy in some foreign country!!! While our economy slowly but surely will implode! AAHHHHHH Why?  ? |
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Mk1 Escort slowly rusting into nothing! But safely stored in a dry garage.
Mk2 Golf, Low n' Loud
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Bad news for Blackpool.BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Oct 19, 2006 14:27:08 GMT
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Its the British public thats to blame for the downfall of British industry, were a bunch of pushovers, we wont buy any thing British, cus its expensive. I disagree. I don't blame anyone, British or otherwise, for choosing a newly developed VW / Toyota / BMW etc., over a re-hashed Rover that was developed in the early nineties, to be honest. |
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Oct 19, 2006 14:28:15 GMT
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Fair play UK workmanship (in the manufacturing industry) is very good. The main reason the Japanese plants came here was government incentives to put the factories where they are. The areas were normally un-employment blackspots following coal mine, steel works, ship industry closures. The fact that these places went on to be asource of good, hardworking and loyal staff was a major bonus. It wasn't an accident that the phrase "major bonus" implys,.. Honda is a world leader in lean manufactuering practices,.. they are constantly optimising their process model. Something other Japanes auto firms have taken to doing. Something I also know that BMW do as I know someone that was involved with doing it. UK firms have always been a bit recitent about doing these kinds of things and they are now paying the price for that... Electronic manufacturing is also a bit backwards in this regard (suprisingly) ... my wife worked (briefly) at Panasonic just outside Cardiff in the purchasing department, she also worked in the auto industry and it was much more advanced.. |
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Oct 19, 2006 14:35:03 GMT
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There ain't no problem with rovers, u need to get a grip, and look past the Bullplop that the media feeds everyone!!! "Shonky" in terms of being 10 years behind the technology curve,.. Also according to www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/ Rovers are less reliabile than competing cars in their class... So who was to blame for Rovers down fall? Rover... their lack of internal investment, their lack of vision, their poor designs and their inability to market their product. Don't blame the press or the British public. If a company goes out of business it is the fault of the company in not being able to adapt to a changing business. |
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guy
Part of things
Posts: 352
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Oct 19, 2006 14:35:05 GMT
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Its the British public thats to blame for the downfall of British industry, were a bunch of pushovers, we wont buy any thing British, cus its expensive. I disagree. I don't blame anyone, British or otherwise, for choosing a newly developed VW / Toyota / BMW etc., over a re-hashed Rover that was developed in the early nineties, to be honest. Up until the last 5 years, there was nout that special about Vw, toyotas and bmws. That was after Bmw raped Mg/Rover for all it was worth! It was Bmw who killed rover. Look at the "Bmw developed mini" which sells 'o' so well, Bmw had nothing to do with that car! I even saw that car before that bmw exectutives did!!! But the british public elected the governments that destroyed the rest of the industry. |
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Mk1 Escort slowly rusting into nothing! But safely stored in a dry garage.
Mk2 Golf, Low n' Loud
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guy
Part of things
Posts: 352
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Oct 19, 2006 14:38:23 GMT
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There ain't no problem with rovers, u need to get a grip, and look past the Bullplop that the media feeds everyone!!! "Shonky" in terms of being 10 years behind the technology curve,.. Also according to www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/ Rovers are less reliabile than competing cars in their class... In the last 50 there is one rover?? Not too bad? there is no overwheming trend of unreliability. |
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Mk1 Escort slowly rusting into nothing! But safely stored in a dry garage.
Mk2 Golf, Low n' Loud
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Oct 19, 2006 14:41:54 GMT
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In the last 50 there is one rover?? Not too bad? there is no overwheming trend of unreliability. If you go by individual model the average is 118 ,.. and Rover falls below that with most models except the 800... where it scores [high... Rover had a GREAT shot with the 75 and particularly the V8 estate and the MG branded cars... and they didn't capitalise on that... and they are post BMW. |
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Oct 19, 2006 14:48:14 GMT
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Rover had a GREAT shot with the 75 and particularly the V8 estate and the MG branded cars... and they didn't capitalise on that... and they are post BMW. Agreed - the 75 did well in the JD Power survey, but MGR couldn't capitalise any more than they did because they lacked not only the capital but also the facitities - they didn't even have a proper R&D centre as that was kept with L-R. |
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guy
Part of things
Posts: 352
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Oct 19, 2006 14:52:54 GMT
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In the last 50 there is one rover?? Not too bad? there is no overwheming trend of unreliability. If you go by individual model the average is 118 ,.. and Rover falls below that with most models except the 800... where it scores [high... Rover had a GREAT shot with the 75 and particularly the V8 estate and the MG branded cars... and they didn't capitalise on that... and they are post BMW. Your right there, at that point they out sold most of their competition. But they kept hitting brick walls, you mentioned the v8 models, the development took so long due to them getting f**ked about by another company(very well known, but probably best left unsaid) which set back the development and the over all quality of the end product. But even before this rover was finished, due to the Bmw influence, it would have taken a mirocle to recover from this point, however they came close!! then they made the biggest mistake ever which was the cityrover. |
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Mk1 Escort slowly rusting into nothing! But safely stored in a dry garage.
Mk2 Golf, Low n' Loud
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Oct 19, 2006 14:56:56 GMT
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This is what I'm saying though they were still working in traditional ways,.. they wern't agile enough to adapt to their new reality. A lot of car companies are like that though. They had their legs knocked out from under them by the whole BMW thing and they still tried to carry on running in the same way,..
The CityRover was a big mistake as well...
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Oct 19, 2006 14:57:18 GMT
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But even before this rover was finished, due to the Bmw influence, it would have taken a mirocle to recover from this point, however they came close!! then they made the biggest mistake ever which was the cityrover. The problem with the CityRover was that they were greedy & priced it far too high. IMHO it should also have been branded something like 'Metro' instead of Rover due to it being bargain basement. However, that cock-up is nothing compared to the MGSV, which was a complete waste of time, money & resources. |
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JasonB
Part of things
Posts: 134
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Oct 19, 2006 15:00:53 GMT
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Did they actually sell any of the V8 models? Can't say I've ever seen one, unless they look so close as to be identical to the normal ones.
You can never go far without seeing a MG ZS and ZR model these days, and I remember a Top Gear where Tiff had them on a track and it was a pretty good review. It is a shame things didn't turn out better. OK maybe they would never have been market leaders but surely they could survive in the form they were.
JB
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1977 Kawasaki Z650
1983 Ford Fiesta (Project)
1985 Kawasaki GPz900R
1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo
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guy
Part of things
Posts: 352
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Oct 19, 2006 15:01:28 GMT
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But even before this rover was finished, due to the Bmw influence, it would have taken a mirocle to recover from this point, however they came close!! then they made the biggest mistake ever which was the cityrover. The problem with the CityRover was that they were greedy & priced it far too high. IMHO it should also have been branded something like 'Metro' instead of Rover due to it being bargain basement. However, that cock-up is nothing compared to the MGSV, which was a complete waste of time, money & resources. However The Sv was not manufactured by rover it was handled by Mg Sport and Racing which is a separate company with sparate funding. |
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Mk1 Escort slowly rusting into nothing! But safely stored in a dry garage.
Mk2 Golf, Low n' Loud
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guy
Part of things
Posts: 352
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Oct 19, 2006 15:08:25 GMT
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Did they actually sell any of the V8 models? Can't say I've ever seen one, unless they look so close as to be identical to the normal ones. You can never go far without seeing a MG ZS and ZR model these days, and I remember a Top Gear where Tiff had them on a track and it was a pretty good review. It is a shame things didn't turn out better. OK maybe they would never have been market leaders but surely they could survive in the form they were. JB Well yes but their were left with huge debts when Bmw had finished playing with them. Zr's were very good cars handled very well. The v8s were sold but only breifly, didnt sell that well due to them being under powered. The original plan was to have a 385ps and 500ps models but that never happened due to problems cooling the diffs??? Which was due to the unnamed company!! |
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Mk1 Escort slowly rusting into nothing! But safely stored in a dry garage.
Mk2 Golf, Low n' Loud
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... but the current MDs etc. don't care about that because they will retire on a big fat paycheque when the company goes to the wall in 4-5 years time...
wonder whats achievable with the right team on a production line... 
?
