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Sept 27, 2012 23:21:23 GMT
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Good morning all! Some of you may remember a thread I started a while ago about my search for a new (old) car. As yet no one has purchased my s13, so it i somewhat on the back burner.... However I have stumbled across a mk2 Cortina I rather like. I like the colour, the wheels, the 70's style modifications. My better half likes. I like it. The only fly in the ointment is the fact it has a steering box. Now the only steering box equipped vehicles I have driven have been commercial vehicles and not a good point of comparison to the various rack and pinion cars I have driven over the years. My question is - are steering boxes really that bad? I have seen on a few forums a lot of people suggesting that an r&p conversion is essential for spirited driving. My intention is to use the car for weekend jaunts and to hit the track on occasion (I realise a mk2 Cortina needs other updates to cop track use, so no dramas there) So is the Cortina a worthwhile option, keeping in mind my net of cars within my budget is mk2 Escort, Holden Gemini (Opel Kadett) and some live axle Datsuns? Or am I going to be endlessly frustrated by the steering when pushing on? Thanks in advance for your assistance, here is a mk2:    |
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Sept 27, 2012 23:32:04 GMT
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One way to find out - go out and drive one!
I've always driven cars with steering boxes so don't have much of a comparison but I don't think you will even notice the difference unless you were testing 2 different types back to back in the same car. Steering wear may well have a greater affect than steering type
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Remade In Australia
thereimaginarium.com.au
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Sept 27, 2012 23:33:31 GMT
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I've had lots of cars with steering boxes and don't have a problem with them. Certainly wouldn't let it put me off buying a car because it had a box instead of a rack.
Paul H
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Sept 27, 2012 23:37:49 GMT
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If Cortina drivers can do this in cars fitted with a steering box, you shouldn't have any problems assuming the box, track rod ends etc are all in good condition. I think a lot of people who complain about steering boxes are driving cars with a tired box and joints that haven't seen any grease for years.
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Sept 28, 2012 6:40:04 GMT
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Anyone who makes blanket statements like all steering boxes need replacing with r+p don't know what they're talking about.
In well maintained steering system whether it uses a box or r+p won't make any difference. BMW used steering boxes in the E38 7 series which only ended production in about 2002
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stefan
Posted a lot
If it isn't broken fix it till it is
Posts: 1,598
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Sept 28, 2012 6:49:32 GMT
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Think BMW used steering boxes later than that (E39 V8's had them as well)
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POWER IS EVERYTHING WITHOUT CONTROL
1985 Honda jazz
1997 Saab 93 convertible
2010 transit 280
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,763
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Sept 28, 2012 7:21:27 GMT
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Nowt wrong with steering boxes.
check for play in the steering wheel, there should really be no more than 2" of play in the wheel, any more and you can suspect the joints are begining to wear
I have had loads, the only problem is there are quite a few joints which wear, because of this, if there is wear in 2 or more, there is an accumulative sloppyness in the steering.
The box its self is a point for wear, but most times can be adjusted out if you take time to do it.
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style.
Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Sept 28, 2012 7:41:37 GMT
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Hmmm, i think it depends on what you want, i have several cars at the moment with boxes and a several with racks, i always think the racks have a definite edge, all being maintained correctly, if you're very fussy about your steering feel there's no real contest, rack every time...
To use a given example if you drive an E39 V8 (steering box) back to back with a Six pot (R&P) you can definitely feel the improved response and feedback through the rack, that's not to say the box equipped car is a bad drive, as it's not, it's flippin brilliant, just you get a little more communication, sharper response from the wheel etc etc from the rack equipped cars, this is why i have a 6 pot E39...
As has been said you have to compare like with like, and in my experience steering boxes show up wear in themselves and in related components quicker, i'm just in process of fitting the third steering box and the fourth set of front end ball joints and bushes to my P38 Range rover in 120k for example, i get bored very quickly of cars that don't go where i point them..
I think if you accept the limitations imposed by the age of car you're looking at you'll be fine, if you expect it to steer like an Elise you'll be out of luck, as has been said go drive one see what you think, in my experience well looked after Cortys of that age drive quite nicely, in a family saloon kinda way..
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Clement
Europe
ambitious but rubbish
Posts: 2,095
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Sept 28, 2012 7:47:25 GMT
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I have a Mk1 Cortina with a steering box and although the steering feels a bit light and 'rubbery', I reckon it's more down to the other components in the suspension. There's actually no play at all, it's quite precise but it doesn't respond very quickly.
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Sept 28, 2012 8:24:10 GMT
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I think I am right in saying that the Rover P6 has a steering box...?!
If this is correct then I have to say that when I had my P6's (one 4 cylinder and one 8 cylinder flavour) I didn't feel that the steering was particularly poor in any way...
Obviously those old P6's are cruisers so ultra-precise steering is not really needed but I never felt let down by driving a car with a steering box...
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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Sept 28, 2012 8:33:40 GMT
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I'm not Micheal Schumacher so TBH I can't tell the difference. You'll be worried that MacPhearson Strutt has a poor camber control during deflection or something next.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Sept 28, 2012 10:13:27 GMT
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Can't say I noticed or had any issues with the one in the Corolla either...
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Sept 28, 2012 10:27:39 GMT
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BMW still uses steering boxes. You could argue the toss on tiny differences in feel but you'd have to be Tiff Needell to notice. The condition of the suspension and tyres make the most difference to the handling of older cars.
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,434
Club RR Member Number: 48
Member is Online
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Sept 28, 2012 10:37:49 GMT
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The great advantage for me with steeringboxes is steering lock. None of the R&P equiped cars i've had so far could match the standard steering lock on my Corolla.
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Sept 28, 2012 10:53:40 GMT
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Again I can't tell the difference, I've owned 3 cars with steering boxes an E34 535, Vauxhall Omega and a VW Taro (aka Toyota Hilux). Both the Omega and 535 had lovely tight steering, almost go as far as saying the Omega is one of the best handling cars I've driven. Personally I wouldn't let it bother me!
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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Anglia68
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Sept 28, 2012 11:23:32 GMT
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I've had a few Anglia 105E's and as long as all the steering joints are in good condition,properly greased and the box itself is shimmed correctly and filled with oil then you won't even notice it's not got a rack. I also modified the steering arms to give me quicker steering which made it feel a lot more responsive and I would recommend for spirited driving.  |
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ToolsnTrack
Posted a lot
Homebrew Raconteur
Posts: 4,117
Club RR Member Number: 134
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Sept 28, 2012 12:14:47 GMT
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Steering boxes enable big lairy engines to fit easier... such as V8's. Thats got to be a good thing.
+1 for steering boxes over R&P. Thankoopleez.
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Sept 28, 2012 12:47:49 GMT
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I've driven w124 and 190 mercs, no complaint with the steering boxes in those...
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'98 e36 316i lux
'97 mx5 harvard
'87 Saab 900 T16s
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
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Sept 28, 2012 13:02:41 GMT
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I'm perfectly happy driving my rx7 with a steering box, and whilst it isn't as good as rack and pinion it's what you get used to. I think if you split your time between different cars, and other other cars you drive are rack and pinion you'll notice it most. When I go from steering box car to a rack and pinion one I don't instantly think 'wow this is better' or anything, but when I then get back in the steering box car the steering does seem a bit heavy and dead. After about 10 mins you soon adjust and then it feels the same as ever. I wouldn't let it put you off the car  It's also worth noting that most of those live axel Datsun's use steering boxes too.... |
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Sept 28, 2012 21:48:37 GMT
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One more happy steering-boxed RX-7 driver here. I found the car was very sensitive to rubbish tyres, but fitting modern ones with good tread transformed most of its wayward tendnecies. Compared to my '92 RX-7 on rack and pinion (leaving aside the 300bhp disparity and the rubber footprint approximately halved, lol) it certainly doesn't disgrace itself. Mostly what I notice swapping from one to the other is the slight vagueness in a dead-ahead position where you need to make small steering inputs, like to miss a drain cover or something. Then it does feel slightly ... fuzzy is the best way I can put it. Not sharp. Other than that, it can hustle with the best of them, in 90% of journeys I don't feel I'd have been noticeably faster through the turns than if I was in the FD
...which maybe says more about my rubbish drivin skillz than the car ;D
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