10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Sept 28, 2012 22:23:06 GMT
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Most modern steering boxes are variable ratio, tightening up significantly in the centre 'straight ahead' position, this is to try to eliminate that exact problem, imho it doesn’t, the worst part I find about steering boxes is the constant tiny corrections at high motorway speed, I find dialling in a teensy bit more toe out helps correct this especially on cars with 'dead ahead tracking' from the factory, and extra 0.5-0.8mm toe out often works wonders..
I think it depends how fussy you are how you drive and what you drive, if I jump out of my W210 E-Class Merc (steering box) or E39 530d Bimmer (R&P) and into my P38 Range Rover (steering box) I spend the first 5 miles thinking 'good god this thing drives like sh1t' after 5 miles i'm wafting along with one finger on the wheel letting it find it's own way down the road..
I am quite fussy though and drive my cars very hard, I have been known to remove new premium tyres because I didn’t like how they felt, though this has only been on cars with steering boxes....
The Merc wafts wonderfully, but push it hard and there is a softer more disconnected feeling to the steering, a lack of fine feedback which makes it a joy for moderate speed cruising but a slight worry when near the edge, the BMW which is a similar weight very similar suspension setups and almost identical age, you can chuck about like it's a sporstcar, and you get great feedback through the wheel down winding countryside roads, blasting across Europe it feels so composed you can hold the wheel with two fingers at twice the UK speed limit with total confidence, I have never experienced a steering box system with this accuracy,
Seems luckyseven has noticed the same as me, that steering box systems are far more sensitive to tyre choice, suspension bushes TRE's etc etc...
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Last Edit: Sept 28, 2012 22:25:17 GMT by 10mpg
The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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MK2VR6
Posted a lot
Mk2 Golf GTi 90 Spec
Posts: 3,328
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Sept 28, 2012 22:36:49 GMT
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My old hilux was steered through its steering box; loved it. Steering boxes are for proper men
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Sept 28, 2012 22:41:03 GMT
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Seems luckyseven has noticed the same as me, that steering box systems are far more sensitive to tyre choice, suspension bushes TRE's etc etc... Pretty much it in a nutshell. I found everything I modernised and rejuvenated made a bit more of an improvement to the steering; tyres, shocks, springs... haven't summoned up the enthusiasm for the bushes yet It's like the steering box has a smaller window of tolerance than rack and pinion, and needs everything to be in top condition to give the same (or similar) performance. As soon as wear and deterioration creep in the parameters narrow too much and the steering goes rubbish. Short version... maintenance, lol
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Last Edit: Sept 28, 2012 22:41:45 GMT by luckyseven
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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The great advantage for me with steeringboxes is steering lock. None of the R&P equiped cars i've had so far could match the standard steering lock on my Corolla. Drive a Triumph Dolomite with a Slant 4, or a Herald based Triumph (Spitfire etc.), the latter of which is said to have a tighter turning circle than a London taxi (or at least the Herald is said to) . IMO, If you really are a purist, little will beat a steering rack for feel and adjustability etc. Would I write off a steering box as a choice for buying a car? No . As 10MPG said, steering boxes can seem amazingly awful when only a few things go out of kilter, say a slightly tired 'box, worn balljoints (there are after all, more than them to most steering box arrangements than there are with most rack & pinion affairs). As an example the majority of Beetles I drove from a Midlands Beetle specialist seemed as bad as most old Land Rovers from a steering front. Vaguer than than a spoon in a large yoghurt pot! When I acquired my VW Beetle, with new TREs and box etc. it really did convince me that steering boxes could be usable (but bear in mind this can add to the cost (and it is probably why many steering boxes get a worse rep than they deserve)). It was quite direct in addition to giving me more confidence in the bends with that Beetle than I had with any other Beetle I had driven in previously. I remember the new owner commenting on how it was one of the straightest Beetles he drove . I do admit than I went from super skinny tyres on the front (135R15) to the stock (but brand new) 155R15s, but whilst I appreciate it would make it handle better, it still surprised me how direct it steered for a steering box setup. Well, that Bug was better than the 2006 Ford F430 I drove in the USA this year and better than my Stag's steering rack was before I fitted a recon item!
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Last Edit: Oct 3, 2012 22:32:42 GMT by ChasR
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I think a test drive will quickly points out if you like the steering in the Cortina.
Personally, I didn't like the steering box in the RX-7 FB. The one I drive regulary has a lot of play in the steering wheel before it really starts to steer and the feedback pretty non-existense. It is also heavy to steer.
On the other hand I was surprised by the steering box in a Alfa-Romeo Berlina. Very lovely, nice response and not heavy to steer, but still offering enough feedback. Oh, and I like the steering of a Transit mk3 (with power assist).
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Click picture for more
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A lot of it has to do with the length of the droparm. Cars with short drop arms (Nissan 300C) have pretty terrible steering, the reason being the balljoint at the end of the arm does not have much range of movement. Lets say 5 inches for arguments sake. Lets say you have x amount of wear in all six steering joints (inner and outer trackrod ends, drop arm joint, idler joint, not to mention the idler bush itself and the internals of the steering box. It could all ad up to a fair bit compared to the 5 inches of movement from lock to lock. Imagine that whole lot moved faster due to a longer droparm, lets say a Range Rover moved 10 inches, thats HALF the amount of slack with the same amount of wear in the joints.
A good steering box is better than a bad rack, and nicely set up boxes are ok possibly with the exception of very fast driving (100+mph)
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69 Plymouth Fury Convertible 75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door 84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door 78 Datsun 120Y Coupe 78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van 98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo 76 Honda C50 04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
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Personally, I didn't like the steering box in the RX-7 FB. The one I drive regulary has a lot of play in the steering wheel before it really starts to steer and the feedback pretty non-existense. It is also heavy to steer. On the other hand I was surprised by the steering box in a Alfa-Romeo Berlina. Very lovely, nice response and not heavy to steer, but still offering enough feedback. I think this just re-enforces the sentiment that how good steering boxes are is all down to maintenance. My rx7 has got a rebuilt and correctly adjusted steering box with all new bushes and good condition ball joints, there's no play in the steering. I drove my fb Rx7 back to back with an Alfa-Romeo GT Junior the other week, which should be the same steering box and system as the Berlina. The steering felt practically identical, I remember being really surprised at how similar they felt. It'd be well worth adjusting the steering box on the rx7 you drive, it's very easy and quick to do.
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Oct 11, 2012 13:16:51 GMT
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I think it depends how fussy you are how you drive and what you drive, if I jump out of my W210 E-Class Merc (steering box) or E39 530d Bimmer (R&P) and into my P38 Range Rover (steering box) I spend the first 5 miles thinking 'good god this thing drives like sh1t' after 5 miles i'm wafting along with one finger on the wheel letting it find it's own way down the road.. W210 is R&P, not box.
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194? Willys Jeep MB 1965 Volvo 544 Special 1968 Opel Rekord 1975 Opel Kadett Estate 1985 Mercedes-Benz 230E 1985 Datsun 720 King Cab 4x4 diesel 1997 Volvo S70 2.5SE (ex. "Volvo544special65" - changed to more reader friendly username. )
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Oct 11, 2012 15:19:51 GMT
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depends on the manufacturer, some are ok, some are dire..... the wifes Mercedes SLK has got a steering box and doesn't feel any different to any other car but my Mazda RX7 has got a steering box and it's hopeless......it ruins the car... driving at speed is a very unnerving experience. Ian, i've had around 6 RX's (including all 3 series of 1st gen) and never had a problem with the steering. My series 2 used to tram track a little but it went away when I switched tyre brands. My first RX-3 had a lot of play in the steering but once everything was replaced and the box adjusted it was like a new car. I regularly did stints to 100mph in my series 3 and never felt in any danger.
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ToolsnTrack
Posted a lot
Homebrew Raconteur
Posts: 4,117
Club RR Member Number: 134
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Oct 11, 2012 16:02:33 GMT
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Thats odd, my RX3 had R&P...
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Oct 12, 2012 10:56:19 GMT
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Someone must have swapped it in then. Do you have any pics of the old girl?
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Oct 12, 2012 14:13:00 GMT
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as has been said already, a well maintained setup should have no probs. its down to worn joints n worn bushes that put people off. standard mk2 steering is 4.5turns lock to lock ive got a high ratio box thats 3.5 but milton do shorter steering arms to speed up the steering. put some on that should tighten it up for more spirited driving. by the way mk2 cortina, good call!
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Oct 17, 2012 17:33:06 GMT
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as others have said if its well maintained its fine my range rover is the first car ive owned with steering box it feels no different at all to r&p but i used to drive a mk3 transit for work years ago which was never maintained and i had to turn the wheel a fair bit before it did anything
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Oct 17, 2012 21:05:28 GMT
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as has been said already, a well maintained setup should have no probs. its down to worn joints n worn bushes that put people off. standard mk2 steering is 4.5turns lock to lock ive got a high ratio box thats 3.5 but milton do shorter steering arms to speed up the steering. put some on that should tighten it up for more spirited driving. by the way mk2 cortina, good call! That is some interesting information! Well I'm currently waiting on money to come thru from the sale of my current steed, if the Cortina is still there I will definitely be taking it for a spin to see how it goes. Thanks to everyone for their comments, I really appreciate the help! I'll post up a thread if I ever manage to get this new car sorted....
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Last Edit: Oct 17, 2012 21:06:06 GMT by courseout
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