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Sept 27, 2010 20:56:26 GMT
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Hi, I'm doing some research in replacing the engine and rear axle for my Standard Vanguard Phase 2 ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Vanguard#Vanguard_Phase_II). I have a Rover P6 V8 engine lined up and am doing some research into what rear axle I can fit. The current axle is 4'6" wide (55.2"). I've found that the Volvo 240 series rear axle is 55", so might be an acceptable replacement. Does anyone have any further suggestions what might fit? I'm open to the possibility of having a smaller width and go for larger wheels (am open to losing the rear seat/bench in favour of larger wheels) - but am new to modifications, so you'll have to educate me on what is involved. thanks Tony
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Last Edit: Sept 27, 2010 21:25:26 GMT by phase2tony
---------------------------------------- 1954 Standard "Kustom" Vanguard 1959 Austin A35 2004 Jaguar S-Type 2.5Ltr V6 Sport 2007 Jaguar S-Type 4.2Ltr Supercharged V8 Sport 2012 Fiat 500
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Sept 27, 2010 21:06:56 GMT
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where did u measure the volvo axle from? I rough measured a volvo 740 axle and it was 52 between the back plates, I thought the 240 ones were narrower? the volvo axles can take a fair amount of power, was looking into them to use one in my truck.
but then again it was a rough measurement as it was hard to get to.
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Last Edit: Sept 27, 2010 21:13:43 GMT by damageandy
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Sept 27, 2010 21:11:14 GMT
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how much power are you gonna put through it? stock P6 V8 is about 150bhp i think, a mk3/4/5 Cortina axle will take that and will be cheap and easy to find, plus has a sensible stud pattern.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Sept 27, 2010 21:30:34 GMT
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I did a rough measurement and then reviewed a 56year old manual to find the 4'6" width of the current size (drum-to-drum). I found (via google) that a Volvo 240 rear axle is 1383mm = 55.32".
The V8 is rebuilt from the ground up and is likely to be pretty standard to start with; although I'm expecting that after a couple of years it'll get upgraded, so I was looking for a rear axle that could handle an incremental upgrade in power.
I'll start investigating the Cortina axles - I hadn't considered those as an option!
thanks
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---------------------------------------- 1954 Standard "Kustom" Vanguard 1959 Austin A35 2004 Jaguar S-Type 2.5Ltr V6 Sport 2007 Jaguar S-Type 4.2Ltr Supercharged V8 Sport 2012 Fiat 500
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conrad
Posted a lot
Here to fix your cabin.......
Posts: 1,678
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Sept 28, 2010 0:28:13 GMT
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capri 2.8i axle is 52" if my memory serves me tonight, and those capris 150-ish bhp standard (well they did once anyway...), will take a fair bit more than that.
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Sept 28, 2010 5:23:05 GMT
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2.8 capri axle in good condition should be able to handle 300bhp as long as your not running massive tyres and a violent foot, they can be found with LSD as well, however, they are bloody expensive due to the old school ford boys all wanting them.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Sept 28, 2010 7:33:17 GMT
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Volvo would probably be absolutely the cheapest and take the most abuse, especially with a welder. Othervice you could look into hiace rears, then you'll get an lsd and better gear ratio.
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vambo
Part of things
Ratrods, Muscle Cars, Pornography and Death Metal!
Posts: 445
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Sept 28, 2010 7:53:58 GMT
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Wohhh, do Hiaces make for good rears, i never thought of that, do they have huge truck drums on them and a wierd stud pattern?
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1970 Hillman Avenger 1980 Datsun 240K Skyline 1992 Volvo 240 Torslanda 1992 Toyota Hilux Turbo Bizzle 1995 Volvo 850 T5
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Steve
Posted a lot
Making progress in small, easy to handle chunks of awesome
Posts: 2,033
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Sept 28, 2010 8:33:43 GMT
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There is one that ive been considering and that would be from a Vauxhall Frontera Sport, aint had a chance to measure one up yet but they seem pretty strong and have discs as standard.......but they are 6-stud if the length checked out i was gonna look into getting a pair of hubs made up for a more sensible pcd Steve
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Sept 28, 2010 9:29:54 GMT
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Most 4x4 pickup truck axles would do the job, they are all strong enough to haul a couple of tons up a muddy mountain and a lot have slippers built in, the down side is the really low diff ratio and the 6 stud PCD, although there are loads of wheels that will fit, a lot of Japanese stuff runs the same PCD so theres no shortage of wheel choice.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Sept 28, 2010 11:58:38 GMT
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Can I suggest you work the other way ? You need to decide what you want the car to do, racer or cruiser or the best mix of both. Then you need to work out what tyre height ( this means you need to know the style of rims , bling or steels) . You need the tyre height to work out the diff ratio to achieve your requirements THEN you start to look for the width and ratio Stock SD1s are geared to 22mph/1000rpm in direct drive 1:1 (3rd, top in auto, also 4th in manual, 5th is overdriven ). Auto or manual box ? Neither P6 units are that strong for lots of power , I've broken several BW35s ,sheared where teh bellhousing bolt son ,with stock Rovers , the BW65 or GM180 are far better boxes and found in SD1s. ...and finally , if I haven't broken your spirit already , as you say you are new to this are you aware of the rules governing retaining the vehicles ID via the DVLA 8 points system or the BIVA test requirements if it falls outside of those requirements ? Not trying to upset you but many build without even realising that there are regs that govern what you are allowed to do . Best to make your decision from an informed point of view. Your motor should be able to be built within the points system but first you need to know what you can do Details here www.the-ace.org.uk/Chassis-and-Monocoque-Modification.html
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Last Edit: Sept 28, 2010 12:49:56 GMT by kapri
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Sept 28, 2010 12:27:36 GMT
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Wohhh, do Hiaces make for good rears, I never thought of that, do they have huge truck drums on them and a wierd stud pattern? You see them regulary on small yanks and all sorts of rally cars here, so i guess they hold up quite well. I think they've got over 4:1 ratio, and the same bolt pattern as us fords and mopars, 4,5", 114,3mm. Haven't got a clue on the width and brakes though.
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Sept 28, 2010 13:18:00 GMT
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Wasn't Dez selling a Nissan 300C estate axle? They are tough as old boots and a 3.7 ratio. 5x114.3 pcd too so not too peculiar.
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Sept 28, 2010 13:42:15 GMT
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Can I suggest you work the other way ? You need to decide what you want the car to do, racer or cruiser or the best mix of both. Then you need to work out what tyre height ( this means you need to know the style of rims , bling or steels) . You need the tyre height to work out the diff ratio to achieve your requirements THEN you start to look for the width and ratio Stock SD1s are geared to 22mph/1000rpm in direct drive 1:1 (3rd, top in auto, also 4th in manual, 5th is overdriven ). Auto or manual box ? Neither P6 units are that strong for lots of power , I've broken several BW35s ,sheared where teh bellhousing bolt son ,with stock Rovers , the BW65 or GM180 are far better boxes and found in SD1s. ...and finally , if I haven't broken your spirit already , as you say you are new to this are you aware of the rules governing retaining the vehicles ID via the DVLA 8 points system or the BIVA test requirements if it falls outside of those requirements ? Not trying to upset you but many build without even realising that there are regs that govern what you are allowed to do . Best to make your decision from an informed point of view. Your motor should be able to be built within the points system but first you need to know what you can do Details here www.the-ace.org.uk/Chassis-and-Monocoque-Modification.htmlHi - I really appreciate the input you've provided here, I wasn't aware of the 8-point system. ...no broken spirit I'm in no rush and want to do this project properly, I'm not after a Racer but a Street Cruiser with some decent oomph ;D so, if I replace the engine, transmission, rear axle and suspension will I'll be looking at breaking the 8 point rule? is the impact just that the car is no longer considered a 1954 but a 2010 and will have to undergo testing to get certified and get a Q plate allocated. The Vanguard has an independent body & chassis; you can unbolt the body and leave just the chassis & running gear in place I'm booked in to see a specialist hot-rod shop next Thursday ( www.valleygasspeedshop.com/index.html) - I'll take all this info. along with me and see what they come up with. thanks Tony
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---------------------------------------- 1954 Standard "Kustom" Vanguard 1959 Austin A35 2004 Jaguar S-Type 2.5Ltr V6 Sport 2007 Jaguar S-Type 4.2Ltr Supercharged V8 Sport 2012 Fiat 500
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Sept 28, 2010 14:07:23 GMT
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If you can change the engine and box WITHOUT cutting into the central crossmember and just change the rear axle onto the existing suspension ,plus an upgrade to discs machined to fit your front hubs you woudl retain the vehicle identity legally as you have MANDATORY 5 points unmodified chassis , 2 points front and rear suspensions ( as a pair NOT 1 point either end ) and 2 points for steering assembly so still legitimate. Change either rear suspension and you have lost the vehicles identity if / when caught and forced to undergo BIVA.
BIVA means you have to meet modern day safety standards and the biggest fail point on most cars will be that the glass must be to EC43 spec , flat glass can be made to spec but curved creates issues on most early ( about pre 79) cars.
It is possible to modify cars to pass without losing their character but many parts will not comply and requiring alteration. Fine if you are doing the build yourself but pro built cars have to meet an even stricter criteria as the laxer BIVA is for Amateur built only.
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Sept 28, 2010 20:54:54 GMT
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capri 2.8i axle is 52" if my memory serves me tonight, and those capris 150-ish bhp standard (well they did once anyway...), will take a fair bit more than that. A Mk3 Capri's wider than that - a Mk1's 54 1/2 - pretty sure it's 56-ish. Sold mine but I've got a Mk1 atlas and I've measured it - the axle, fnarr etc...
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Mk1 Cortina Wagon Chopped Minor 2-dr 54 Minor Traveller x 0.5
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Sept 30, 2010 14:41:37 GMT
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How about an Austin A99/A110 Westminster axle - I think you would get the benefit of retaining the same stud pattern front and back without mucking about?
Westminster axles are shared with the Healey 3000 so there are loads of aftermarket goodies like disc conversion kits, and plenty of ratios too - IRC the shortest is about 4.1 and the longest is a wopping 3.15 in the Vanden Plas 4R... The 4R had 175bhp, and the late 3000's were 150bhp, so power capability for a stock Rover V8 will not be an issue.
Not sure on the width, maybe one of the COOC brigade on here could help with that?
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Sept 30, 2010 15:40:13 GMT
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axles weighs are also worth knowing, not sure if theses are with or without brakes volvo dana 80kg capri atlas 60kg toyota hilux 60kg escort english 40kg
the heavier your axle the worse the ride, however if you's cars heavy in the first place you won't notice a bit extra.
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How about a Sherpa/LDV axle. They're about the right width for early Ford rods, and are derived from the SD1 axle (well all except the early ones whigh you're less likely to find), so you can swap ratios if needed. BTW, I think the Standard has a Jag/Chevy PCD (5x4.75")
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1953 Minor (Long term project) PT Cruiser
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Yeah, I make you right on the PCD (which makes me wrong! westys are 5x5) as I am pretty sure we put S3 Jag rims on the back of a Vanguard we built for bangers.
I think early Sherpas have the 4.75x5 stud pattern as it happens?
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