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Jan 20, 2009 11:42:39 GMT
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The Continuous Insurance Enforcement scheme, will provide a new fixed penalty for people who ignore official reminders that their insurance has expired. This’ll apply to vehicles that aren’t declared as being off the road through a Statutory Off-Road Notification (SORN) and aren’t insured. Continuing offenders will risk having their vehicle seized and destroyed. Where a motor vehicle isn't used on a road or other public place then there’s no requirement to purchase insurance cover for 'on road risk' as long as a SORN declaration has been made. This scheme is expected to come into force during 2009 taken from...... www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_067639
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Jan 20, 2009 11:51:18 GMT
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suits me. If the car is sorn, it doesnt need insurance. If its not sorn, that means its taxed - it should be insured.
The only possible sticking point will be whether the automatic system will take into account long-term off road cars. If a car was not taxed before the SORN thing was invented, it doesnt have to be declared SORN at all.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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Jan 20, 2009 12:04:16 GMT
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I have 2 cars that are currently taxed, but off road. Does that mean I'll have to cash in the tax disc (for nothing, as they're both exempt), SORN, and then re-tax once they go back on the road? Seems like a PITA to me! What about people who only use their classics over the summer, and swap their insurance to an old banger during the winter? Why should they have to surrender their tax disc every winter? Beaurocracy gone mad! It works perfectly well at the moment: if it's on the road, it needs to be insured. If it's not, it doesn't. Simple!
The SORN thing didn't make the slightest bit of difference to anyone wanting to drive without insurance/tax/MOT, but did increase the burden of paperwork on the average classic car enthusiast. This continuous insurance regime won't work either - it'll just increase paperwork, and trips to the post office....
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1951 Split Window Beetle - SOLD! 1965 Mercedes 230SL 1966 VW Beetle 1968 Mercedes 280SE
1972 VW 412LE Variant - SOLD! err.... 2004 Toyota Corolla
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Jan 20, 2009 12:27:23 GMT
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I assume there will be some kind of third party 'on road risk' policy which keeps the car legal but doesnt allow it to actualy be driven.
I assume this kind of policy will be cheap as its pretty much just a formality.
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Jan 20, 2009 12:43:15 GMT
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Did they not ponder at any point during this scheme as to how many people knowingly drive around uninsured, who have the logbook all signed off in their name and address and an active tax disc?
More paperwork to deal with, fantastic! Cheers for that.
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Jan 20, 2009 12:52:40 GMT
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I have 2 cars that are currently taxed, but off road. Does that mean I'll have to cash in the tax disc (for nothing, as they're both exempt), SORN, and then re-tax once they go back on the road? Seems like a PITA to me! What about people who only use their classics over the summer, and swap their insurance to an old banger during the winter? Why should they have to surrender their tax disc every winter? Beaurocracy gone mad! It works perfectly well at the moment: if it's on the road, it needs to be insured. If it's not, it doesn't. Simple! The SORN thing didn't make the slightest bit of difference to anyone wanting to drive without insurance/tax/MOT, but did increase the burden of paperwork on the average classic car enthusiast. This continuous insurance regime won't work either - it'll just increase paperwork, and trips to the post office.... Why would you want you're lovely classic car that you have so much love for that you only drive it when the weather is good, sat at home without any insurance? What happens if it's stolen from your garage, or catches on fire? Seems pointless NOT to have a taxed car uninsured, if you ask me.
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1900sr
Part of things
I like Mantas me!
Posts: 875
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Jan 20, 2009 12:59:35 GMT
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I've just bought a new daily, and transferred the policy from my Almera GTi to the new car. The Almera is parked off road and is now for sale. I've left the tax on it so it's easier to sell. Under this new scheme it appears I would have to have it insured as well at whatever cost. I know it's a risk if it get's nicked from outside my house or catches fire, but a relatively small one I'm willing to take.
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Jan 20, 2009 13:17:30 GMT
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ahhh, speaking of car tax, There is another proposal floating around that you will not be able to sell cars on with tax still current. The point is that an uninsured driver can buy one and use it far more easily until he is caught by ANPR to show he has no insurance. robbed from a thread elsewhere
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Jan 20, 2009 13:18:05 GMT
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Seems pointless NOT to have a taxed car uninsured, if you ask me. It does seem that way but there are many times it makes sense, especially if you have multiple motors that you switch between. For example, unless I'm using them I don't tend to insure my cars - they're kept off road and the bulk would be valued at £200 or so by the insurer so I probably wouldn't claim if something happened to them anyway, to keep my premiums down. Here's a good situation to demonstrate how it'd cause some bother - some time ago, both the Charmant and Galant were taxed/tested, but only the Charmant was insured as the Galant was being kept off the road elsewhere until I was ready to use it in a couple of months - I'd just stick it on day insurance the few times I used it during that period. In view of that, I didn't want to cancel the tax disc. But I also didn't want to insure it properly as I wasn't using it, it was off the road and it isn't of sufficient value that I'd make a claim if it got stolen anyway, insuring it "properly" would be throwing money down the drain. At that point I'd be fined by the new system as the Galant would be taxed, but uninsured (bar the 2-3 days total I insured it). It doesn't stop there either - I was intending to lay up the Charmant once the insurance ran out, it only had a few weeks left to run so I left it to avoid a cancellation fee (and gain a year NCB). However, the tax didn't run out until a month after that. You can't get a refund back on that, so I just left it, I didn't want to insure it for a month just to get my use out of that remaining bit of tax. So at that point I'd be fined by the new system as it would be taxed, but uninsured. I can get around all this, but ultimately it leads to less flexibility and more ballache, sending tax discs in for no refund, insuring stuff you have no intention of driving, etc. However I'm going to get a trade policy this year, then I can just insure everything and do what I like.
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tri
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,572
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Jan 20, 2009 13:18:43 GMT
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Good idea on the board, uninsured drivers are a real problem. Though perhaps they should have analysed it further at some point. Gonna make buying(and selling) second hand cars a PITA. Hardly anything will be sold with tax as the person is hardly gonna insure it just to sell if they're not still driving it. Silly people.
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I forgot how to retro...
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Jan 20, 2009 13:22:40 GMT
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ahhh, speaking of car tax, There is another proposal floating around that you will not be able to sell cars on with tax still current. The point is that an uninsured driver can buy one and use it far more easily until he is caught by ANPR to show he has no insurance. robbed from a thread elsewhere I can see the point of that from an ANPR point of view, but it'll be a logistical nightmare to enforce, and a massive revenue creator as you'll sell a car halfway through the month, so loose a months tax, but will the next owner still have to pay for that month?
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There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes
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Jan 20, 2009 13:24:06 GMT
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I've been hearing this on radio one all morning and was getting pretty annoyed by the idea thinking it was targeted at reduceing the number of old cars out there,now i've come on here and found that it doesn't apply if the car is sorned,i think it's a fair idea,it's just targeting driving without insurance the best it can. There are policies out there that do 1000 mile limited,but if you're not going to drive it,then sorn it,it doesn't take long to get another tax disc when you're ready to drive it again.
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Jan 20, 2009 13:32:51 GMT
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All three of mine are insured all year around, Even tho the Fiesta sits SORN for 6 months in a lock up. For how much it costs i'd rather it was covered incase, than not covered at all and me get diddly squat if anything happens!
But i can see how it's gonna be a problem for some folks!
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Jan 20, 2009 13:36:06 GMT
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This would shoot me in the foot right now. My classic Mini is in my garage, locked up, uninsured. By this new thing, I would have to declare it SORN and hand in my tax disc for me to be legal? Far too much effort.
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Jan 20, 2009 13:39:39 GMT
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My personal view is that I want to see the DVLA get their house in order first before bringing in new policies. I like the idea of things like SORN and anything that reduces uninsured drivers is a good thing. However my own experience with the DVLA is that they are a very outdated organisation that was barely managing to keep up before even the SORN deceleration was introduced. The thought of things getting more complicated for me is one thing, getting more complicated at their end scares me.
I don't have anything against the DLVA, just that I've found they don't seem to be very good, and I suspect that's because they are yet another understaffed old fashioned department.
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Jan 20, 2009 13:47:51 GMT
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Why would you want you're lovely classic car that you have so much love for that you only drive it when the weather is good, sat at home without any insurance? What happens if it's stolen from your garage, or catches on fire? Seems pointless NOT to have a taxed car uninsured, if you ask me. Some people believe in insurance, and think its good value for money, others don't. I'm one of the latter. I always spend as little on insurance as I can, and if I don't have to buy it, I don't. With the amount I save in premiums, I can take the hit once in a while.....
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1951 Split Window Beetle - SOLD! 1965 Mercedes 230SL 1966 VW Beetle 1968 Mercedes 280SE
1972 VW 412LE Variant - SOLD! err.... 2004 Toyota Corolla
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Jan 20, 2009 13:50:29 GMT
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Hey if tax discs were made easier, it wouldn't be a problem.
The online service has been good the last few times I used it, but it still tends to be about 3-4 days before I get it through in the post. However, if I have to get it through the post office, it's a right pain. I can only get it from a few post offices and they're all rubbish and packed full of wasters and doddery old people so it takes ages (often a good 30 minutes), can't do it on Sunday at any of mine, need to wait for and take your insurance documents (what's the point of having the online database then?).
Then there's tax itself, you can only get 6 or 12 months in one whack, there's no discount for all the days you won't be receiving if you get it at the wrong time of the month (so you end up paying 6 months and getting 5), there's no chance to pay by instalments, you have to pay each time manually (can't just set it on a Direct Debit and let it take care of itself). I can't believe we still use such an outdated system to be honest. And don't get me onto SORN - can't it just be assumed that it is SORNed once I don't renew the tax? And why do I have to renew the SORN? Can't you just do it yourself and save us both some bother?
That's it, I've got myself so wound up I'm going to have to eat a load of "Hill's Shorties" to calm down.
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Jan 20, 2009 14:04:20 GMT
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I've just clocked the real problem here. It's muppets like me who buy the new car before getting rid of the old one. If I bought another car today and therefore swapped the insurance to it, my Subaru would then cause me to be subject to a fine unless I declared it SORN - that would mean cashing in the remaining tax (until the end of March!). Government wins.
I'd then be left with a car to sell that had no tax on it, making it harder to shift. Or, I'd have to buy an additional insurance scheme to cover the Scooby until I sold it.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Jan 20, 2009 14:06:51 GMT
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Government wins. nail on the head springs to mind - its the same as all the green rubbish they use against us, its all about tax money oh, and to save us from ourselves of course ;D
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Jan 20, 2009 14:17:47 GMT
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I don't understand why we still need a tax disc now anyway,as everything is on a database.
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