street
Posted a lot
6.2 ft/lbs of talk
Posts: 4,662
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Jan 20, 2009 14:53:43 GMT
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Bit of a PITA all round by the sounds of it! I park mine on private land and only use 'Day Insurance' for the few times I ever use it.... Is this new legeslation the end of Day Insurance? Majic.
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DutyFreeSaviour
Europe
Back For More heartbreak and disappointment.....
Posts: 2,944
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Jan 20, 2009 15:43:49 GMT
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This sounds like I'll be getting all my motors out of the UK sharpish - I'll need to look into registering all the UK fleet here or in Germany Foreign plates FTW I do pay up - but often am late or forgetful as I'm all over the place with work..... the amount of times I've slipped I'll be bankrupted with fines!
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Back from the dead..... kind of
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Jan 20, 2009 15:59:08 GMT
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Of course the people who this legislation is designed to target wont be affected, as those who continually drive without insurance are often not the registered keeper of the car, so the fine wont go to them.
If you drive round with a suspensed licence, in a car thats not registed to you, without insurance or MOT or road tax then you wont really be affected. The car will eventually get seized by the police under existing legislation but then you can just go out and buy another £50 scrapper to drive round in.
If you forget to cash in the tax on your classic that youve put into hibernation over winter then you get whacked with a fine... don't see the fairness in that.
Just another way of making money IMHO. The system is overcomplicated as it is.
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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horney™
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,289
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Jan 20, 2009 16:13:04 GMT
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I don't have anything against the DLVA, just that I've found they don't seem to be very good, and I suspect that's because they are yet another understaffed old fashioned department. I believe the reverse is infact the case. Overstaffed and they have little to do as most of it's automated so most couldn't care less about doing thier job properly. Also the SUper expensive IT systems are not very good due to contractors knowing they can do a shoddy job and stil get paid over the odds by HMGov. This legislation is poorly thought out although I suspect it's not for revenue streams but in fact to employ people to launch it, run it etc which means more people imployed in the civil service keeping unemployment down. Frankly any changes to Road Tax regs since 2000 should have been focused on rethinking the entire approach and not on little schemes here and there that in the end just make it worse for a large amount of people. nick
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Last Edit: Jan 20, 2009 16:14:14 GMT by horney™
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horney™
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,289
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Jan 20, 2009 16:17:06 GMT
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To add to my post above I recall reading somewhere that the whole tax disc system actually operates at a loss as the revune from the discs is outstrippe dby the costs of managing, producing and distributing all the gumph that goes with it. This is probably why they keep it going as if they did change it to a different and hassle fre emethod they'd have to lay a load of people off. Goevrnments making people redundant is not the done thing (especially in the currant climate when they are actively trying to incease the civil service)!
nick
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Jan 20, 2009 16:22:39 GMT
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I don't think this is about making money. Everyone gets on their high horses about the government "making money" but really, if they were after revenue theres far easier ways to raise it that messing about with insurance. And as the govt. gets precious little money out of motor insurance (IPT is what, 3%?) the raise on revenue from this will be probably less than the cost of implementing it. Most fines actually cost more to process than the money they bring in (speeding and parking tickets being two obvious exceptions)
This seems to me to be a well meant but badly thought out scheme to try reduce the number of road tax evaders.
No point in getting all Daily Mail over it, thats all there is to it.
Non retro type people (like my Mrs) response to this is "good, about time too" and then "you're not paying for any more insurance so those junk cars have to go". Until I explain all mine are insured anyway. A point which didn't make her that happy either LOL.
Point is SORN vehicles are excempt. Means a bit of a faff with some paperwork. Thats about it.
I personally think we should scrap tax discs and spend the money they save on that anachronistic waste of time on more ANPR to catch cars out there with no MOT or insurance.
In before the winge bin, but this is not the end of the world, even if they do bring it in. Its a bit of a PITA if you don't do fleet insurance, but now may be the time to get some quotes on that.
Individual policies for all my cars? You think I'm mad? One policy for all cars. End of story. Easy. Cheap.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jan 20, 2009 16:55:54 GMT
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Oh, and the key thing to note is that this is a public consultation at the moment, not law. I'm not sure how you're meant to respond to it though. Anyone know?
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Jan 20, 2009 17:04:15 GMT
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This is the second thread in as many days ive posted on that has been accused of being "Daily Mail"... Mrs Lankytims granparents have the Daily mail, and its nowhere as bad as that! Theres no mention of immigrants, gypsies and paedophiles for a start.
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Last Edit: Jan 20, 2009 17:08:27 GMT by Lankytim
1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Jan 20, 2009 17:29:09 GMT
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Akku summed it up better than I could really, it's a paperwork ballache more than anything else.
I just find it annoying on the basis that it has a huge flaw, relying on the logbook being in the right name/address, which for an uninsured driver it obviously won't be. It shows an incredible lack of understanding from the people proposing it that it has even got this far to be honest.
Police cars fitted with ANPR seem a more realistic and hands-on way of solving the problem, provided they use some common sense.
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Jan 20, 2009 17:45:12 GMT
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Anything that helps to get chavs etc off the road in there unlicensed, untaxed, uninsured heaps, is a good thing in my opinion...Even if it does mean filling out a form..Big fuss was made over the Sorn when that came in, takes 2 minutes online to do it
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Jan 20, 2009 21:09:46 GMT
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I'm not sure it will get the skuzzers in untaxed / uninsured cars off the road. They just buy 'em cash and register them to a false name and address (or not at all). Pog had this with a Mk4 Escort he sold, I've heard other people have similar problems. A mate of mine once sold his car cash to some guy who came to look at it and attempted to get the guy's ID for the V5 and the bloke got quiet offensive and threatening. Just took all of the V5 with him and left. Wonder if he ever even sent that in. Lucky my mate never had any come back on that one. Its still plenty easy to buy a car without registering it. DVLA want to make that more the responsibility of the person selling the car so expect to see harsher fines for not getting ID off the buyer or whatever.
I'm still not sure if this is "wind in the trees", a formal consultation or an actual regulation which is definitely coming in?
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jan 20, 2009 21:42:45 GMT
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Remember my Saab from last week. I traded it in, trader shoves it through the local traveller auction, 10 days later I get a letter from the recovery company that it has been chased and dumped.
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Jan 20, 2009 21:48:41 GMT
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Remember my Saab from last week. I traded it in, trader shoves it through the local traveller auction, 10 days later I get a letter from the recovery company that it has been chased and dumped. Exactly the same thing happened to me 8 years ago, and followed up with letters from cops and unpaid tickets etc.. been used in a blag and then dumped...My poor old E12 Beemer, should have kept it
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getting on the consultation list is where you need to be. You get the consultation papers sent direct to you. You need to speak to the department in question. In this case I guess you'd want to speak to the DVLA policy unit. Their phone number is ex-directory LOL. I think I have it at home. You could also speak to the Department for Transport, their Whitehall HQ is on 0207 9448300. Even if its not a DfT consultation they should be able to point you in the right direction.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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i know that a lot of guys on here think the ACE are a load of doom an gloom merchants, but if you want to keep up with whats going on check out here..... www.the-ace.org.uk/subscribe to the newsletter and you get the latest news emailed to you, maybe RR could join the list of supporters ??
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Jan 21, 2009 12:10:51 GMT
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Would this mean that traders policies would no longer be available?
I've a couple of mates who work in the trade who have policies to cover them to drive any vehicle up to a value of £40,000, and have a few motors that they own, use, and drive on those policies.
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1967 Morris Traveller 1971 Series IIA Land Rover 1991 Golf GL 4+e 1992 Corrado G60 1986 E28 BMW 528i
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Jan 21, 2009 12:27:44 GMT
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It doesn't seem like vast amounts of hassle really, but it ain't exactly going to reduce uninsured driving.
fwiw personally I hate the idea of more ANPR, we're already spied on more than enough (we're the most watched in the world are we not) - and I can't see it doing much to reduce uninsured driving unless there's a ANPR car on nearly every road in GB. But thats o/t.
Anyway, possibly it's more like a cloaked way of knowing about cars that are currently unknown - those not on a database, or on but with unknown whereabouts/ownership would supposedly get in there either via SORN or insurance.
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'66 Amazon <-> '94 LS400 <-> '86 Suzuki 1135 EFE
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Jan 21, 2009 14:59:18 GMT
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Fixed My concern is that this will hit those of us that own cars that have been off the road since before SORN came in - we'll end up having to SORN them - and remember to SORN them every year - just in order to avoid the uninsured fines. SORN is a bit of a faf, but it seems to work. The idea is that the DVLA knows the exact status of every car in the country, instead of them dropping off the radar when they are stored for a few weeks/months/years/decades*. The biggest issue that I can see here is that rather than just declaring SORN online you'll have to go to the post office and cash in your tax disc at the same time - even if you don't get anything for it. The reason for this is that when you SORN a car online, the SORN only comes into effect from the expiry of the tax - leaving the car taxed and you open to an 'uninsured car' fine. James *Delete as appropriate
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Jan 21, 2009 15:25:11 GMT
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trade insurance requires you to notify MIDB of any vehicle you hold (or plan to hold) for more than 14 days. It goes on the same computer as private policies. Some insurers are better and pushing the updates through than others.
I suspect they have thought of the obvious stuff like this already.
If you don't like being spied on then ANPR is the least of your worries Bob. Theres far more detailed and personal ways to track and trace individuals than that. ANPR is quite crude in fact compared to whats out there. A lot of the use of the data from these sources is restricted from use by the Human Rights Act which guarantees your right to privacy (with some caveats for law enforcement and national security). Remember that if this bothers you that the Conservative Party is on record saying they will repeal the Human Rights Act if they are elected and will withdraw the UK from the European Convention on Human Rights which will mean that a lot of the data which is out there but can't be used now could be used under a tory administration.
This is not a party political point, as I don't support any of them by habbit. Just pointing out the issues as they pop up. You may think that this is a good thing.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jan 21, 2009 15:34:15 GMT
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I remember some tory MP explaining why they wanted to repeal the human rights act, and it kinda made sense... I cant remember what reason they used though!
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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