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I've been working on the door top rails, following the same technique as previously this was the result:
So far what i've learnt is that can't rush this and any attempts to take a shortcut will end in failure, one thing I tried for example is using a small (tiny) plane to trim down the veneer to reduce the sanding time, this works ok but in some places has chipped the veneer back past where I need to sand and you can see a ragged edge.
Its not overly noticable but if I had just stuck to sanding wouldn't have happened.
I've also had issues with the cross banding on the dash top rail and the end result isn't great and i'm not really very happy with it (will get a picture), the reason for this seems to be that the the angle of the cross banding is a lot less pronounced than the side pieces, having checked the other car it isn't right and I suspect that this piece might just have been made wrong originally and because I haven't fixed this (not realising it was an issue) i've just repeated the error.
I'm not sure what to do about this because I feel that if I try and do anything now I will just ruin the veneer and end up scraping the piece. If I see another top rail at a reasonable price I might buy it and have another go.
Overall I can see why people who do this professionally charge what seems like a lot of money (a MK2 wood set refurbishment seems to be around £1500-2000) as the time involved in doing this is huge.
I've also started on the dashboard side sections, the glove box section has delaminated (its made partly/mostly of plywood) and I saw one on ebay for a bout £17 including postage so i've bought that as a better starting point, the instrument section has historic woodworm and is rotten as well, i've got part of this panel as a spare at my mums (I think its for a MK2 but might be for an S-Type though). If I do then I will use this but if not I might have a go at making a new one.
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,887
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Apr 19, 2022 10:05:52 GMT
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Wood work is looking good!
It's a long process isn't it, and I wasn't even aiming at that concourse finish! And for all of us trying it for the first time, very much an experiment. I used a scalpel blade to trim back excess before sanding, but had to leave a bit of a boarder to avoid the chipping issues similar to what you found with the plane.
Shame you had some issues with wrinkling on the one piece. When I was looking into it, I was warned off 'wet' glue for the risk of wrinkling as the liquid evaporated, which is why I went for an iron on sheet of glue. I did also read of people using PVA on both surfaces but letting it dry before ironing it together. Sounds like you've got a good system with the vacuum bags going though, and doesn't matter how its done as long as the end result looks good!
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I've been doing a few more bits on econo jag, the first thing was to finish off the heater, i'm fed up tripping over the damn thing in the workshop so I painted it and put it together.
I've fitted it to the car last night but that was a pain and took far longer than it should because I couldn't buy the seals between the heater and the body and so made some out of foam which was a bit too stiff and made getting it all in place very difficult.
I've also fitted the door cards following them being painted.
They look really good even if I do say so myself, they just need the wood capping fitting and so moving back to the mammoth task that is the wood work....
I dug out the spare piece of wood that was at my mums and lo and behold its for a MK2 and the only difference is that it doesn't have the hole for the automatic gearbox speed hold switch. I'm not sure where it came from and I remember nearly throwing it away once as it was missing the rest of the parts that make up the piece, good job I kept it to replace mine which is rotten and full of historic woodworm holes.
That was no problem to drill so I did that and also filled the holes for the heated rear window switch as although my car had the switch it didn't have the window.
I removed the veneer from the rest of the dash which was either really easy as it pretty much just fell off or really hard as it was stuck on well still in places.
Which gave me this kit of parts:
Which I then glued and clamped back together
Which left me with this, I repeated the same on the glove box side. The replacement glovebox side I bought didn't come with the lid so i've bought one of these seperately as the original one was damaged when someone forced it open, presumably to check if anything valuable was inside!
I cut up the veneer pieces for the dashboard:
I then glued them on using a piece of cardboard tube for the curved sections which was less than successful to be honest.
This was the small piece that goes halfway up the B post in the process of having the edge banding fitted.
Some more pieces in the vacuum bag.
These are some of the pieces in the process of laquering, i've been putting on four coats then letting it dry for a couple of days before sanding back and doing it again, the pieces in the photo have had 12 coats so far and i'm hoping that they will flat and polish up ok now, the amount of coats is necessary to try and get the surface flat as some of the wood was quite rippled, I suspect that the glue I used has something to do with this as it was flat when I started.
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Just caught up on this one. Excellent. Thats one where it kinda proves you can save anything if you put your mind to it...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Door trims came out good!
Veneer is coming along nicely too. What glue did you use to glue the bits of dash back together?
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1964 Daimler 2.5 V8 (project)
2015 Disco 4 SDV6
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Thanks, it's coming together slowly. I used gorilla wood glue to glue it all together and to stick the veneer on.
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... When I was looking into it, I was warned off 'wet' glue for the risk of wrinkling as the liquid evaporated, which is why I went for an iron on sheet of glue. I did also read of people using PVA on both surfaces but letting it dry before ironing it together. ....
Have you any links for that iron on glue?
homersimpson The lacquer is looking very good. What product did you use?
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homersimpson The lacquer is looking very good. What product did you use?
The laquer is this product:
Beware though that its a 2k product and as such you need to use an air fed respirator to apply it safely.
I assume you could use a 1k product but how long it would last and how easy it would be to apply i'm not sure, you need a lot of build to fillin the grain and other marks in the veneer to get something approaching a smooth finish.
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,887
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Have you any links for that iron on glue? I can’t remember it being anything specific. Just eBay search for ‘iron on veneer glue’ and it brings up a bunch of results of similar items. It was on a paper backing. You first ironed the glue on to the veneer, releasing it from the paper backing then ironed the veneer on to the piece. It worked fine for me, though my wood work was nothing like the shiny perfection homersimpson is clearly aiming for! It’s looking good! |
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Last Edit: Jun 3, 2022 19:21:38 GMT by goldnrust
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Have you any links for that iron on glue? I can’t remember it being anything specific. Just eBay search for ‘iron on veneer glue’ and it brings up a bunch of results of similar items. It was on a paper backing. You first ironed the glue on to the veneer, releasing it from the paper backing then ironed the veneer on to the piece. It worked fine for me, though my wood work was nothing like the shiny perfection homersimpson is clearly aiming for! It’s looking good! I think that would work better as it would give you a consistant surface to work with and also it would help to stengthen the veneer as I had a fair bit of trouble with breaking it or cracking it as its so fragile.
I glued mine with a filler spreader to try and get some form of smooth surface but it wasn't ideal and either the iron on veneer above or maybe a glossing roller would have been better. You live and learn with these things and the next time I do it I will no doubt be better at it hopefully that won't be for a very long time though!
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I've been doing a bit more as time always, this is my setup for flatting and polishing the woodwork to get rid of any as many imperfections in the lacquer as I can.
This is one piece after i've flatted it with 600 grit wet and dry and the moved up to 1500 grit. I've been a lot less fussy with scratches than I would have done with paintwork as the grain of the wood hides it a lot and to try and get it flat with 1500 grit would be near to impossible.
And then polishing it back up to a shine with different grades of compound.
This is one of these pieces in situ:
And this is how its starting to look inside (apologies its a bit dark on the photo).
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Cracking work with the veneer! Very pertinent to me as I've got an XJ40 with shot veneer on the 'ski slope' in the middle. Would be fine if it was an auto one as there's boatloads about, but the manual ones are pretty rare now.
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Cracking work with the veneer! Very pertinent to me as I've got an XJ40 with shot veneer on the 'ski slope' in the middle. Would be fine if it was an auto one as there's boatloads about, but the manual ones are pretty rare now. Is it the veneer that has failed or is it just the laquer on top? If the later then you should be able to remove it with paint stripper, sand the veneer smooth and then laquer it again. If not then the challenge will be trying to get a piece of veneer that matches the rest of the wood work in the car.
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I've been told that the front shock absorbers from a Ford Econoline E100 between 1975 and 1989 will fit a the front of a MK2 Jag and also the rear shock absorbers from a Ford Mustang between 1965 and 1973 fir the rear of a MK2 Jag.
I've looked these up and they are considerably less than the cost of buying shock absorbers specifically for a MK2 Jag, does anyone know where I can find technical specifications for the original and alternative dampers to check and what i'm looking for, is there a value of damping force that each one should have and what units would it be in?
While i'm prepared to pay for the correct ones if they are all that is available the cost of the has doubled since I did the last car and if there is a more cost effective suitable alternative I would like to at least look into it.
Anyone have any experience of this?
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,887
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As I understand it, the way to measure dampers is with a 'damper dyno' which creates a force vs velocity graph. There's more to it than a simple 'damping amount number', as most dampers have different responses to low and high speed bumps and differences in compression and rebound forces, the shape of the curve on the graph is quite important. I'd be very surprised if you can find those graphs for anything short of modern aftermarket performance dampers.
So I think you'd be into guess work (potentially educated guesswork) when trying to find other dampers to fit. I guess the first question is, do you want it to simply be 'damped', at which point I guess any damper that is the right size and shape would work, or do you want it to ride and handle like a Mk2 jag...
Speaking of guesswork, I could see that if the dimensions are right that the dampers from the Mustang could work. Its a car with similar suspension design (live axle with leaf springs) of similar size and weight. How the rear of a Mustang rides/ handles, I couldn't tell you.
The front is more tricky, I've no idea what the Econoline suspension set-up is like, or what weight its set-up to carry etc, but being a van it's potentially quite different. If you could find dampers of the right dimensions from car of a similar weight/size with a similar suspension design to the Mk2 then that might seem a safer bet?
Personally I would say for all the hard work it would entail, and the risk of the gamble not paying off, it might be worth just buying the correct dampers. Though I'd also say that you can get adjustable aftermarket dampers for the Mk2, from the likes of GAZ, for the same sort of price as you can new standard ones, and when I find the cash to spend on dampers that will be my plan. That way I can set the damping stiffness to suit my own tastes.
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As I understand it, the way to measure dampers is with a 'damper dyno' which creates a force vs velocity graph. There's more to it than a simple 'damping amount number', as most dampers have different responses to low and high speed bumps and differences in compression and rebound forces, the shape of the curve on the graph is quite important. I'd be very surprised if you can find those graphs for anything short of modern aftermarket performance dampers. So I think you'd be into guess work (potentially educated guesswork) when trying to find other dampers to fit. I guess the first question is, do you want it to simply be 'damped', at which point I guess any damper that is the right size and shape would work, or do you want it to ride and handle like a Mk2 jag... Speaking of guesswork, I could see that if the dimensions are right that the dampers from the Mustang could work. Its a car with similar suspension design (live axle with leaf springs) of similar size and weight. How the rear of a Mustang rides/ handles, I couldn't tell you. The front is more tricky, I've no idea what the Econoline suspension set-up is like, or what weight its set-up to carry etc, but being a van it's potentially quite different. If you could find dampers of the right dimensions from car of a similar weight/size with a similar suspension design to the Mk2 then that might seem a safer bet? Personally I would say for all the hard work it would entail, and the risk of the gamble not paying off, it might be worth just buying the correct dampers. Though I'd also say that you can get adjustable aftermarket dampers for the Mk2, from the likes of GAZ, for the same sort of price as you can new standard ones, and when I find the cash to spend on dampers that will be my plan. That way I can set the damping stiffness to suit my own tastes. I understand what you are saying but there is a huge cost difference, the cheapest front shocks from David Manners are £174 for a pair whereas the front shocks from the Ford start at around £46, one of the people who has done this before said "FWIW, the car came in 2nd place nationally in the JCNA slalom in 2004 and 2005 and 1st place in 2006. The handling seems fine" which does make me think it might be worth trying. Something to think about for sure. |
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jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,921 
Club RR Member Number: 40
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Econo Jag MK2 1967 2.4 Autojamesd1972
@jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member 40
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FWIW a set of the Ford dampers would probably be better than the majority of nice shiny MK2’s are running about on. Suspect that old tired dampers are the norm !
James
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Jul 10, 2022 15:42:09 GMT
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I've finished the last piece of wood which was the door for the glove box and i've built the piece back up:
I've also finished wiring up the centre dash section and started to fit the instrument panel.
Its starting to come together now.
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Hey Homey! Is that a 'Windscreen Wiper Motor' shaped hole in the dash above the clock cut-out there? I'm liking your style! As you know, I'm faced with a similar (actually, identical) problem, so please let us know how you resolved this. Great work, you seem to be steaming ahead compared to me!
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