jpsmit
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,274
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I love this project and am so grateful for the explanations - especially the work to get the proportions exactly right - and not too thick. I was going through the whole thread and wonder if after all the work getting it 'delicate' (weird I know using the word delicate to describe American iron) the proposed bumpers are simply too thick. To my eyes it makes that car look like it has a 50's bush bar. It seems to me that the original bumpers were a much finer and better proportion. It is important in this feedback to note that in Canada we did away with the penny about five years ago. Thus we round up or down every transaction, This of course means that my 2 cents rounds down to exactly nothing. either way I am loving this!
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 27, 2020 10:23:31 GMT
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I love this project and am so grateful for the explanations - especially the work to get the proportions exactly right - and not too thick. I was going through the whole thread and wonder if after all the work getting it 'delicate' (weird I know using the word delicate to describe American iron) the proposed bumpers are simply too thick. To my eyes it makes that car look like it has a 50's bush bar. It seems to me that the original bumpers were a much finer and better proportion. It is important in this feedback to note that in Canada we did away with the penny about five years ago. Thus we round up or down every transaction, This of course means that my 2 cents rounds down to exactly nothing. either way I am loving this! You bl00dy Canucks with your decadent colonial ideas about not needing pennies. You’ll be wanting home rule next! 😉😂 Its hard to answer your point without covering the entire history of kustoms. But, if we view kustoms as basically ‘cosmetic hotrodding’, it starts to make more sense. In simple terms, the practicality or performance of a kustom comes second and third to the aesthetic. You want to try to make the car look like what the original concept drawings or the rendered promotional artwork did- a car that was longer, sleeker and more attractive than it did in real life once those boring practical people who insisted you had to be able to get in it with a hat on and be able to carry adult backseat passengers without scraping on the floor stuck their 2 (Canadian) penneth in. Another thing that would have been very much in the mind of any restyler at the period would have no doubt been the heavily stylised Streamline Moderne posters of trains, planes and racing automobiles, which relied heavily on one device because they all used the medium of the day- flat printed media- the use of perspective to suggest speed. All the cars and trains depicted below have big brash front ends, usually drawn from a low angle, tapering away to obscurity towards the rear. So much so they often don't even bother to finish drawing the back end in a lot of them. These images are literally selling you the progressive dream you are trying to create, all progress, newness, speed, modernity. It’s basically dieselpunk before the term existed. so it would be foolish to not use their exaggerated styling cues to make your kustom stand out. So what if you take that aesthetic and apply it to an actual real life vehicle? When you buy wholesale into that cartoony look, What do you end up with? Well, tapering away towards the rear is good. So fade-away roof chops, taildragger stance. (Rear lowered more than the front) extended (but low down/tapering) rear wings/fins, moving rear lights down and back. Remember this is still just before the space race, so fins are not a thing yet. At the front end you want the opposite. A big brash grille and bumper and bonnet peak smashing its way into the future, all chrome and progress. ‘Get out of my way’, but also ‘look at how opulent i am’. Another key feature is tall, thin upright grilles didn’t exist postwar. They were seen as old fashioned by then. It was all about big low wide mouths full of chrome. So if you were building such a thing, with such an image in mind, you wouldn’t go for the old hat style of a tall narrow grille. But yeah, if you’re buying into that sort of look you end up with a car with exaggerated features to some extent, but that’s kinda the whole point. The earlier, much more restrained westerguard style kustoms that just did things like grille and bumper swaps for parts off more upmarket brands were an important step in the progression on the kustom as an art form, and have come massively back into fashion recently, but they’re quite tame compared to what started happening once people really started sinking their teeth into the ideas and metalwork as few years later.
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Feb 27, 2020 11:20:12 GMT
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What a brilliant description to match the workmanship! I guess we've all seen show models and thought, "Wow," only for the production version to be the same old, same old, although probably not so much with 40-60s American tin! Top school day!
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urbanaw
Part of things
Posts: 249
Club RR Member Number: 17
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Feb 27, 2020 12:29:45 GMT
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You got me fully hooked now. Simple, artistic approach.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:00:20 GMT
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Bookmarked! Awesome out of the box thinking regarding the styling too.
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Feb 27, 2020 18:19:26 GMT
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Great to get some context education on the culture (should that be Kulture). Really love this thread. Great to see some bold creativity taking shape before our eyes.
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Feb 27, 2020 21:00:21 GMT
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I'm liking the side profiles- I'm looking at many variants of the same repeating shape (which works) and also the extended visual line that brings at least the window drip rail line or the roof line down on or near the rear wheel arch, unlike the heavily chopped roofline you showed in the picture of the 2 cars; both those lines extend far back, the roof line extends off out the back of the car which is why proportionally the sail looks wrong (at least no my eyes, some of the older customisers disagree).
More please
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Last Edit: Feb 27, 2020 21:26:07 GMT by PhilA
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 27, 2020 21:26:09 GMT
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tbh all the background stuff about kustoms is a subject I really like the theory and reasoning behind. If you think about it, it’s all a bit nuts people went as far as they did and spent as much time and effort restyling cars the way they did, but as a concept it’s intrinsically linked to the postwar dream, and not just in America.
I could write a whole thesis on it, but don’t worry I won’t do it just here.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 27, 2020 21:31:55 GMT
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I'm liking the side profiles- I'm looking at many variants of the same repeating shape (which works) and also the extended visual line that brings at least the window drip rail line or the roof line down on or near the rear wheel arch, unlike the heavily chopped roofline you showed in the picture of the 2 cars; both those lines extend far back, the roof line extends off out the back of the car which is why proportionally the sail looks wrong (at least no my eyes, some of the older customisers disagree). More please You’ve got it. That repeating shape is important. It’s all well and good having lots of interesting separate bits you really like on your car, it they’ve got to reference each other or it’s not a cohesive product. People usually start to look at me a bit nuts when I start talking about the rule of thirds and Fibonacci spirals in relation to chopping old cars up, but its all applicable.
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Feb 27, 2020 21:34:02 GMT
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It got a bit out of hand by the late 50's, and today a lot of it is populated by the type of people who will tell you any creativity is wrong and everything should fit recipe X to create a car.
I look at it this way from an outsider's point of view- I get what they were doing and to an extent what they are trying to preserve but there are some shapes and designs that still look good 80+ years later that cannot be intrinsically incorrect.
You've hit on the Dick Tracy right there and it looks good.
Edit: Yes, golden rectangles too. Fibonnaci would be wrong only if Fibonacci didn't exist, nor did mathematics.
--Phil
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Last Edit: Feb 27, 2020 21:36:15 GMT by PhilA
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Feb 27, 2020 23:12:34 GMT
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I could write a whole thesis on it, but don’t worry I won’t do it just here. Well wherever you do it make sure you drop me a link. I am a BIG fan of going into depth and detail and writing as much as it takes to say something. I'd love to read that thesis personally.
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Feb 28, 2020 12:29:10 GMT
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I could write a whole thesis on it, but don’t worry I won’t do it just here. Well wherever you do it make sure you drop me a link. I am a BIG fan of going into depth and detail and writing as much as it takes to say something. I'd love to read that thesis personally. Me too. Wonderful car, love the way its going and love your description of the "look". Makes perfect sense and you managed to get a perfect description in a couple of sentences - genius!
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The Millenium Volcon"Get yourself a Volvo if that's what you really want, you might be dead next year. In the meantime, you could be going sideways in a gigantic land barge."
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npp
Part of things
Posts: 121
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Feb 28, 2020 17:53:18 GMT
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I could write a whole thesis on it, but don’t worry I won’t do it just here. Well wherever you do it make sure you drop me a link. I am a BIG fan of going into depth and detail and writing as much as it takes to say something. I'd love to read that thesis personally. +1 - I'd love to read more. How seriously were you about writing a 'thesis'?
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Feb 29, 2020 10:32:43 GMT
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fascinating thread , i am potentially doing my first roof chop on my next project , so this is so useful , thank you Daz.
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Feb 29, 2020 10:38:18 GMT
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fascinating thread , i am potentially doing my first roof chop on my next project , so this is so useful , thank you Daz. Attaboyyyyyyyyy
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 29, 2020 15:36:50 GMT
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I could write a whole thesis on it, but don’t worry I won’t do it just here. Well wherever you do it make sure you drop me a link. I am a BIG fan of going into depth and detail and writing as much as it takes to say something. I'd love to read that thesis personally. Well wherever you do it make sure you drop me a link. I am a BIG fan of going into depth and detail and writing as much as it takes to say something. I'd love to read that thesis personally. +1 - I'd love to read more. How seriously were you about writing a 'thesis'? Sort of semi-serious I guess, it it would be a big project I don’t have time for at the minute. Maybe in a few years once I’ve got a few things sorted out in life I could dedicate the time to it. It’s a big subject and I’d want to do it justice.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 29, 2020 15:38:22 GMT
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fascinating thread , i am potentially doing my first roof chop on my next project , so this is so useful , thank you Daz. I really do need to do a proper ‘how to’ right from the start, as planning where and how to cut is an important a part (if not more so) than the actual cutting, and I have glossed over it here to an extent. What you gunna be chopping?
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Feb 29, 2020 15:58:26 GMT
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I wont go into detail on here Daz , in case it doesn't come off , but i will bung you a pm .it's all still in the theoretical stages acquisition wise at the mo
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Brilliant stuff Dez. I like the reasoning behind your work, makes it way more interesting . We do a lot of streamlined stuff with our students and that sense of speeding into the future still seems so desirable now, possibly even more so at the moment. When you look at how amazing some of the shapes of the time were, even on commercial vehicles it seems a shame that little of it has been revisited The stuff still looks like it's from the future even now. Bluebird in the 30s must have been mind blowing The Talbot Lago and 37 zepyr took it about as far as it could go
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,951
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Personally I feel as if Dez should give up the cuffed jeans and rock the tweed and plus 4's.... P.
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