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Mar 27, 2021 11:20:16 GMT
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Sorry to hear Matt, the joys of modifying. It happens but I've no doubt you'll sort it - no going back now, it's a great project.
It has to be rings surely causing excessive back pressure? Drop the oil when you can and see if there's anything in it.
The glass is half full. Rock on!
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Mar 27, 2021 11:26:45 GMT
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Liked for the post not for the the results. Such a shitter, though pushing things like we do, sometimes has a bad result. Could of gone either way, some make mega power forever and get beat on and some engines go pop stock. Not what you wanted at all. Hopefully you muster up the energy to get it sorted as I know all to well how much of a drag it can be sometimes to keep plugging on after a failure. Still looking forward to the dyno sheet  Yeah il sort it. Come too far not to now tbf. Best case Is it's summat stupid like the breather in the passenger side cam cover is blocked. But I can't see how it can. Worst case is obviously, rings, pistons or headgaskets.. il know more when I start digging but regardless this isn't the end by a long shot. . And I'm still waiting on a Dyno sheet. John did say he would send it me today tho and in grand scheme of things hassling him for that isn't going to cure my issue haha Cheers |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Mar 27, 2021 11:30:09 GMT
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Sorry to hear Matt, the joys of modifying. It happens but I've no doubt you'll sort it - no going back now, it's a great project. It has to be rings surely causing excessive back pressure? Drop the oil when you can and see if there's anything in it. The glass is half full. Rock on! Yeah the more I read the more I think it's rings tbh. There not known for much else. Tbf the engine was an unknown quantity. All used engines are. It's risk you take fitting an engine you don't know it's history of.. but this is life. No point being Mardy about it. Just fix it and move on. It's more time I'm short of than anything else. Il get it to work Tuesday and star digging. I know I'm busy next week but il go to work early or work late where I can to get stuff figured out. Cheers |
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Mar 27, 2021 12:06:51 GMT
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I take the view the problem would have happened sooner or not much later. Unknown engine as you said. Sort it now and it'll be happy motoring, you can drive it with confidence and peace of mind.
You've done all the hard with this car by now, so treat this problem as just small setback in the big scheme of things.
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Mar 27, 2021 12:28:30 GMT
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Must admit it sounds like a piston ring has let go. Easiest way to check take all the plugs out, make an adapter for an airline so It can screw in in-place of spark plug, and see where the air comes out.
There’s not much else can pressurise the sump, but at least when you take the plugs out it give you some indication of which cylinder may be causing the issue. There’s always issues when building a car like this. One a few things I remember where I put my engine together was how easy the pistons went into the bore but these were forged custom-made Wisco low compression pistons. I was quite surprised when the engine actually ran as I thought there wouldn’t be enough compression for it do so.
Like that video in the post above when you boost an engine this does put a lot of strain and heat on components. As usual plan for the worst but expect the best.
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“It Doesn’t Feel Pity, Or Remorse, Or Fear, And It Absolutely Will Not Stop, Ever, Until You Are Dead!”
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Mar 27, 2021 13:27:20 GMT
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Pisser. Just as the travel ban is lifted too and you could have been ragging it round North Yorkshire. Double pisser.
Would agree it sounds like rings. For it to have been fine and then suddenly not fine, something has broken - breathing suggests ring(s). I'd start with a compression test.
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Mar 27, 2021 20:39:01 GMT
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I take the view the problem would have happened sooner or not much later. Unknown engine as you said. Sort it now and it'll be happy motoring, you can drive it with confidence and peace of mind. You've done all the hard with this car by now, so treat this problem as just small setback in the big scheme of things. Yeah if it was that close to death it could have gone an anytime.. like you say regardless I've done the "hard" work now.. this is just a hickup. It's now looking like an engine swap. No more "difficult" than changing an engine like for like in any car of not some what of a ball ache.. Il figure it out don't worry! Cheers |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Mar 27, 2021 20:44:40 GMT
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Must admit it sounds like a piston ring has let go. Easiest way to check take all the plugs out, make an adapter for an airline so It can screw in in-place of spark plug, and see where the air comes out. There’s not much else can pressurise the sump, but at least when you take the plugs out it give you some indication of which cylinder may be causing the issue. There’s always issues when building a car like this. One a few things I remember where I put my engine together was how easy the pistons went into the bore but these were forged custom-made Wisco low compression pistons. I was quite surprised when the engine actually ran as I thought there wouldn’t be enough compression for it do so. Like that video in the post above when you boost an engine this does put a lot of strain and heat on components. As usual plan for the worst but expect the best. Yeah the more I've read the more I'm thinking a ring has nipped up. Going to do some digging next week and see what crack is (hopefully not the block haha) Tbh I can't believe it works as well as it does/did... The engine came out of a car destined for the banger track. They don't normally end up there unless there at end of there life haha. Il figure it out. I've picked my lip up a bit today and realised that whatever has happened is done now. It's how I sort it that's the new plan. Cheers |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Mar 27, 2021 20:46:35 GMT
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Pisser. Just as the travel ban is lifted too and you could have been ragging it round North Yorkshire. Double pisser. Would agree it sounds like rings. For it to have been fine and then suddenly not fine, something has broken - breathing suggests ring(s). I'd start with a compression test. Yeah it's not ideal is it. Still least it's happened early enough In year that I can fix it and still enjoy summer! And yeah, whatever has happened has happened virtually instantly. Was fine then it wasn't. So it's clearly summat mechanical that's not happy rather than a gradual failure/wear over time. Il sort it! |
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Mar 27, 2021 21:59:52 GMT
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Bad news.....  I would say there was some detonation on the RR and it's broken rings/ring lands or even burnt a piston edge. Only takes a few firing events to do the damage, especially with boosted engines running towards the edge. Could be caused by going lean due to running out of fuel capacity, or one injector not flowing as much as the rest. Trouble with the latter is it likely won't show quick enough on the AFR to be useful and even if your RR operator is wearing his det cans, by the time he's heard it the damage is done. It's that quick. Potentially it's only a single cylinder hurt as it's still pulling well (though TBH in this case there's probably still plenty enough grunt to be scary even if 4 are hurt!). Can't remember what the history of your injectors is, but you might want to get them checked out if planning to re-use with your other engine as it would be a real shame to kill that too. Good luck with sorting it...... Got to ask though.... given that the thing seems to be completely bonkers with 450 ish bhp, why do you need more...... or is it a case of if I have to ask I'll never understand...?  Nick |
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Bad news..... I would say there was some detonation on the RR and it's broken rings/ring lands or even burnt a piston edge. Only takes a few firing events to do the damage, especially with boosted engines running towards the edge. Could be caused by going lean due to running out of fuel capacity, or one injector not flowing as much as the rest. Trouble with the latter is it likely won't show quick enough on the AFR to be useful and even if your RR operator is wearing his det cans, by the time he's heard it the damage is done. It's that quick. Potentially it's only a single cylinder hurt as it's still pulling well (though TBH in this case there's probably still plenty enough grunt to be scary even if 4 are hurt!). Can't remember what the history of your injectors is, but you might want to get them checked out if planning to re-use with your other engine as it would be a real shame to kill that too. Good luck with sorting it...... Got to ask though.... given that the thing seems to be completely bonkers with 450 ish bhp, why do you need more...... or is it a case of if I have to ask I'll never understand...? Nick Yeah the misfire was picked up by John on the headphones, soon as it did it he aborted and started looking why (hence the plugs coming out and finding the oil down the plug tubes, which we thought was the cause but was actually a side effect).. Fuel system wise were brand new front to back. Aeromotive 340lph in tank pump, Bosch 550 injectors (brand new probably done 500 mile in total now) etc etc.. it's also got a proper fuel pressure sensor wired in with the ECU set to kill everything should I lose fuel pressure. Also nothing fuel related was picked up on the logs. It's looking more like I was just unlucky... Yeah even with potentially a poorly cylinder it still happily spun the wheels on the way home in 3rd in dry.. I've still not had a Dyno sheet off John. But he did say it was doing "over 500" And as for more power. Well.... There is no real reason for more. I'm not trying to lower my lap times or be faster than a particular car.. it's more because I can. And I want to. And push something I've built to most I can safely go to... And prove the numpties on the internet wrong haha. Cus according to them my box should have broke at 300bhp... It's mental fast as it is. But I like the idea of bringing a machine gun to a fist fight 🤣 when it's finished I want to run it down the drag strip too, and if I lose cus I didn't have enough power il be Mardy... If I lose cus it's spun all the way down the 1/8 mile.... Then so be it haha Cheers |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Mar 28, 2021 11:09:04 GMT
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Took it out this morning to run some errands. Not losing any coolant, clearly not happy anymore. Still pulls really well but..... This doesn't looK good...
Obviously need to do some more digging. But I'm not optimistic
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Mar 28, 2021 13:14:37 GMT
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One cylinder I would say, you can see the pulses.... ☹️
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Mar 28, 2021 13:58:20 GMT
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If that inlet behaves anything like my tvr one , it'll be the front two passenger side cylinders ... quick matt ,get it apart !  |
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,063 
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Mar 28, 2021 14:05:09 GMT
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If that inlet behaves anything like my tvr one , it'll be the front two passenger side cylinders ... quick matt ,get it apart ! I think they are similar to the RV8 inlet, but without the trumpets attached to the lower half  |
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Mar 28, 2021 14:25:16 GMT
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the tvr one was home made cossie , but similar flow pattern .  oooops edit , i remember, when it locked up 2 cyl at the pod i was running the twin stage system , so different flow..  that would then suggest back cylinders on passenger side . sorry matt for clogging up your thread with my tat ! |
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Last Edit: Mar 28, 2021 14:42:43 GMT by ivanhoew
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Mar 28, 2021 16:29:38 GMT
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the tvr one was home made cossie , but similar flow pattern . oooops edit , i remember, when it locked up 2 cyl at the pod i was running the twin stage system , so different flow.. that would then suggest back cylinders on passenger side . sorry matt for clogging up your thread with my tat ! Clog away. All input is welcomed at this point cus let's be honest.... I'm having a mare haha. |
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mat88
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,542
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Mar 28, 2021 16:31:51 GMT
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Well I think it's a bit terminal... I've been out in it this morning, and after a little while it feels a bit "flat" and there's a noticeable hesitation and misfire as revs/load rises...
It's now parked until I go back to work Tuesday. First job compression test. If it confirms the worst, then engine is coming out...
Il start the clock on the strip down see how long it takes me.
Cheers
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Mar 28, 2021 17:45:06 GMT
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Just pulled the oil cap off the Mgf while it was running. It definitely didn't do that... Some general air movement, but not noticeable puffs. Good luck with the engine change! We'll all be timing you |
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,063
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Mar 28, 2021 17:48:52 GMT
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Just pulled the oil cap off the Mgf while it was running. It definitely didn't do that... Some general air movement, but not noticeable puffs. Good luck with the engine change! We'll all be timing you He has secretly started the strip down and isnt telling anyone til he has had a good head start |
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