slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Wherever there is a street light there can be a charging point for a vehicle, utilising the network already in existence. Maybe in time each point may be able to charge several vehicles at the same time No chance I'm afraid. The whole street lighting network would have to be rewired to deal with the extra current draw. |
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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In addition to vitessetony's conmments, there's also the fact that power stations are out in the middle of nowhere whereas the worst vehicle pollution is in built up urban areas, so even if the power is generated by fossil fuels, electric vehicles displace the pollution to areas where it causes less of a problem. Great for air quality in cities maybe but once you have transmitted that power through umpteen transformers, power lines, and in and out of a battery you loose one hell of alot of the efficency advantage of generating the energy in a large station and Co2 emissions rocket. People need to be mindful of the difference between air quality and Co2 emissions that's for sure. The two tend to be at odds with eachother alot. All that has happened recently is the focus has shifted onto air quality. |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,885
Club RR Member Number: 39
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One of the major issues is the government has never correctly tested emissions for vehicles. On the road you are nowhere near the test conditions and likely never will be, this allows awful polluting vehicles onto our roads under a false guide.... New test methods came into force in September this year - www.nextgreencar.com/news/8155/tougher-emissions-tests-come-into-force/ This will force higher taxes on company car drivers and will further drive the change to Hybrid/PHEV - the "antisocial" stick will also force companies down the road of hybrid "green creditial" choices. At a Million vehicles changed every 3-4years it's a big market. However, due to higher and higher taxes on company cars some drivers are now opting out (where they can)and buying 4-5 year old diesels! - LOL Fuel - Diesel is also a marker for inflation so the .GOV has to take care with this one as pushing up the pump price on fuel also increase inflation as the direct and indirect costs are all pushed onto goods and services accordingly. |
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Nov 19, 2017 10:06:18 GMT
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One of the major issues is the government has never correctly tested emissions for vehicles. On the road you are nowhere near the test conditions and likely never will be, this allows awful polluting vehicles onto our roads under a false guide. If every car went through realistic emmisions testing we would have some actual information on pollutants. Also one of the things everybody likes to gloss over is torque is the most important number. Now find me a 1.4 petrol that can make the same torque as my diesel. Most 'eco' petrols I've driven darn near need to be launched every time you pull away and that's when you burn theost fuel. Ican do 60mpg urban driving if I'm careful, I cannot see an equal petrol getting near to that and would happily argue that my vehicle when driven correctly likely pollutes less. A colleague at work recently chopped his '16 Sportage in for a 150hp 1L ecoboost Fiesta. I can say on the contrary, the Festa feels nice a torquey and doesn't need to be ragged to get it shifting. I guess it was designed to compete with little diesels. Tax is zero on it too. Also the old one that you can keep driving your old car and still polute less than manafacturing a new electric car is almost entirely false, a new electric car will likely benefit over your old car within a decade including its manufacture. Also in the works car park is a Tesla model X (non ludicrous mode tho  ) Its battery is rated at 500k miles, so when you consider the servicing and lifetime costs, it's actually pretty cheap.  |
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Nov 19, 2017 10:08:18 GMT
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Wherever there is a street light there can be a charging point for a vehicle, utilising the network already in existence. Maybe in time each point may be able to charge several vehicles at the same time No chance I'm afraid. The whole street lighting network would have to be rewired to deal with the extra current draw.  Ok, It is not a perfect representation but, hopefully, it may put to bed this idea that we just tap into the infrastructure and 'hey presto' we have charging points for all. I live on a modern housing estate, I'm ok, I have a garage and drive way but there are a dozen or so properties either side that do not and the residents either park in the communal area or outside their properties. There is, around about, one street lamp per 6 homes, simply tapping into that lamps feed and providing power for all simply will not happen with the ease suggested and will certainly cost an awful lot of money and major disruption, that is if it were possible and I bow to Slaters knowledge regarding its unfeasibility. I live in a town, it's a solveable problem though. As the above map demonstrates, there are whole communities in our country where the charging issue will not be easily remedied. |
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vitessetony
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,055
Club RR Member Number: 114
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Nov 19, 2017 10:17:13 GMT
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Wherever there is a street light there can be a charging point for a vehicle, utilising the network already in existence. Maybe in time each point may be able to charge several vehicles at the same time No chance I'm afraid. The whole street lighting network would have to be rewired to deal with the extra current draw. This is just one of the firms that do this type of conversion, no rewiring required |
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Nov 19, 2017 15:50:37 GMT
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Sorry but you don't understand. You may well be able to draw enough current from each post to charge one car but you won't be able to draw enough from every post in the street to charge all the cars in the street. (In my street i'd hazard a guess at 10 cars per lamp) ofcourse you won't find the company marketing these things making such a point will you ;-)
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Nov 19, 2017 16:22:30 GMT
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Also the old one that you can keep driving your old car and still polute less than manafacturing a new electric car is almost entirely false, a new electric car will likely benefit over your old car within a decade including its manufacture. Sorry sb I think you're missing the point, I agree that over 10 years a newer car will produce less emmissions than an older one, my meaning was that most 'modern' drivers change their vehicles around three years old, meaning that a new car has to be produced every three years or so, which still makes my old car more EF And even Friends of the Earth agree that it is better to maintain an old car than produce a new one |
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Nov 19, 2017 17:08:37 GMT
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I'm considering trading my Saab 93 diesel for something smaller and petrol powered. Preferably left hand drive for if I move back to Spain in the summer. I want similar mpg and for less than £2k, any recommendations?
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Project - 1990 Trabant 601 Daily - 2006 Saab 93 |
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Nov 19, 2017 17:23:31 GMT
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Sorry but you don't understand. You may well be able to draw enough current from each post to charge one car but you won't be able to draw enough from every post in the street to charge all the cars in the street. (In my street i'd hazard a guess at 10 cars per lamp) ofcourse you won't find the company marketing these things making such a point will you ;-) One also needs to consider that street lamps are powered by current electricity network, which -having discussed this some with friends who work in power distribution- isn't really up to the job of supporting the demand that would be placed upon it if we all had electric cars. At present, I can see the best way forward being something like the BMW i8 driveline, a small generator powering electric motors If certainly say it has more mileage in it than some hybrid/energy recovery systems. |
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Nov 19, 2017 17:42:21 GMT
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I just did my research, seems the i8 isn't set up the way I thought it was.
What I had in mind was a small efficient engine running a generator to power an electric drive, rather than relying on batteries to provide the power.
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voodoo57
Club Retro Rides Member
That's not 2 metres! come a little...Closer!
Posts: 2,869 
Club RR Member Number: 137
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Nov 19, 2017 18:43:13 GMT
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Had a meal out last night, chatting to a good friend, mad as a box of frogs with Anglias, engines, drag racing etc etc etc... he then said this.... In Epping, they are under pressure from environmentalists etc about carbon footprints dirty hands and what can we do with the black stuff??? either side of the main road thru Epping and the surrounding roads if you look carefully, you will see the following..... Trees trees TREES! Grass, especially at the side of the road, on that grass are little fluffy Bunny Wabbits, what are they doing........  eating the Grass next to the roads, where the nasty cars are sat engines running, revving, driving stopping, pop farting & whizzing! What happens to the poor bunny Wabbits? NOTHING! they continue to Eat the Grass and grow into BIGGER Rabbits! what's the Freeking problem! You don't see them coughing, choking or dead because of the smoke and so called curse word spewing out of the backs of the cars! maybe killed thru running under a wheel or two, but so far, no environmentalist has raised the issue that rabbits are dying because of Diesels which drive past the trees, and the grass that grows on the side of the road being eaten by the furry lil Bunnified Wabbits! ahhhh Bless! I think he has a fair point? ? |
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Nov 19, 2017 18:46:22 GMT
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If the issue is really about clean air, and not as i suspect about generating revenue, then really the answer is quite simple. Make public transport free, then maybe more people would use it instead of taking their cars. Therefore cleaner air for everyone! Of course, I'm not sure that this would really work for the government, because if we all stopped driving our cars then we'd all stop paying at the pumps, and for VED, suddenly losing the government a massive amount of cash. But my feeling has always been that this is about generating revenue, and not by making the air cleaner. On another note, I read in one of those science magazines like FOCUS or something lately that if all the cars were taken off the road overnight it would have a negligable effect on the climate. But if all the cows used for farming were removed overnight the effects of global warming would be reversed in (I think it said) six months! But it might have been six years, but whatever, thats pretty quick. I'm not sure how true that is, as I tend to take all this stuff about the enviroment with a pinch of salt because in all honesty, i'm not sure anyone really knows! Still, its something to think about.
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Nov 19, 2017 19:05:13 GMT
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Yes I have also seen numerous times that basically, cows farting is way way more of an issue than any car emissions whatever fuel they run on
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voodoo57
Club Retro Rides Member
That's not 2 metres! come a little...Closer!
Posts: 2,869
Club RR Member Number: 137
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Nov 19, 2017 19:10:01 GMT
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And one more thing, with these electric cars, am i right in thinking that there will be major costs involved and a great deal more decision making and scientists cutting up rats and mice (not rabbits... these are for make up companies to torture!) pointing at diagrams and working out how to actually dispose of the electric batteries once they are defunct? Your thoughts? Views? |
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Nov 19, 2017 19:14:40 GMT
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Sorry but you don't understand. You may well be able to draw enough current from each post to charge one car but you won't be able to draw enough from every post in the street to charge all the cars in the street. (In my street i'd hazard a guess at 10 cars per lamp) ofcourse you won't find the company marketing these things making such a point will you ;-) Christ on a bike, if I lived on a street with ten cars per lamppost I would move. In fact if I lived on a street with more than ten cars on it, full stop, I’d move. |
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sb
Part of things
Posts: 725
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Nov 19, 2017 19:40:15 GMT
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Also the old one that you can keep driving your old car and still polute less than manafacturing a new electric car is almost entirely false, a new electric car will likely benefit over your old car within a decade including its manufacture. Sorry sb I think you're missing the point, I agree that over 10 years a newer car will produce less emmissions than an older one, my meaning was that most 'modern' drivers change their vehicles around three years old, meaning that a new car has to be produced every three years or so, which still makes my old car more EF And even Friends of the Earth agree that it is better to maintain an old car than produce a new one Those cars don't go in the tip, they get sold and filter down the market. Producing new cars every year is not an issue. Whether car manufacturers are building sensible numbers of vehicles is a different conversation. And one more thing, with these electric cars, am i right in thinking that there will be major costs involved and a great deal more decision making and scientists cutting up rats and mice (not rabbits... these are for make up companies to torture!) pointing at diagrams and working out how to actually dispose of the electric batteries once they are defunct? Your thoughts? Views? That's dependant on manufacture but they can be recycled into new batteries, this is off the top of my head but I'm fairly sure that's one of Tesla's big deals that they can almost fully recycle their batteries? |
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ivangt6
Part of things
Posts: 776
Club RR Member Number: 132
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Nov 19, 2017 20:23:23 GMT
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Petrol economy has caught up with diesel recently. Fords 1 litre ecoboost is an excellent little engine and has the same power, torque and economy as the average 2 litre turbo diesel but is much lighter and with a much better power range so can be driven more economically.
surely this is the immediate future
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Last Edit: Nov 19, 2017 20:24:43 GMT by ivangt6
1979 Mini 1000
1972 Triumph GT6
2007 VW Golf GTi
1979 VW T25 Leisuredrive
1988 Range Rover Vogue SE
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Nov 19, 2017 20:32:09 GMT
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The ecoboost has nowhere near the torque of a 2.0 diesel. I agree its a great little engine but nothing compared to a 2.0tdci or tdi motor.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Nov 19, 2017 20:33:22 GMT
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Petrol economy has caught up with diesel recently. Fords 1 litre ecoboost is an excellent little engine and has the same power, torque and economy as the average 2 litre turbo diesel but is much lighter and with a much better power range so can be driven more economically. surely this is the immediate future Except you'll probably need 3 or 4 ecoboosts to 1x 'average 2 litre turbo diesel', as they're so comically unreliable. Havung to replace or rebuild the engine a couple times in the cars lifespan is not what car owners want these days. |
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) Its battery is rated at 500k miles, so when you consider the servicing and lifetime costs, it's actually pretty cheap. 
eating the Grass next to the roads, where the nasty cars are sat engines running, revving, driving stopping, pop farting & whizzing! What happens to the poor bunny Wabbits?
