norm75
Part of things
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Grumpy quick question if you don't mind..Quality of paints does this differ greatly ie like everything does the cheaper option paint from suppliers differ to a quality brand..is there a clear notable visual difference short and long term..Thanks.. Very much so but the favourite trick of the website retailers is to list a paint has high quality when in reality its not - it is in fact industrial grade - it looks shiny enough when it gets applied but within months it will fade - holds very little UV protection and will not take to polish very well at all - it is what it says it is 'Industrial Grade' its manufactured for the commercial market of industrial equipment / site equipment / fork lift trucks / shipping containers etc (only the retailers don't tell you that and they sell it for an inflated price but under that of vehicle quality paint to make it appear good value) Vehicle quality paint is very different in the quality aspect - holds strong UV fade protection, high yield adhesion qualities, is very durable and will be polishable to within microns of its depth - this applies to both solvent based, single pack & 2 pack paints - I would only ever use a known / named brand from a respected paint manufacture and in my case I have used the Italian based 'Lechler' for several years now - basically you get what you pay for but going back to your question a notable difference short term - that will be down to depth of finish and the skill of the person that applied it - in some cases it could be very difficult to judge between a low / high quality paint when applied - longer term the results would be more than obvious with paint fade / lack of adhesion / durability / wear, abrasion & contact resistance interesting that you say it is an Italian based paint. Do you happen to know if that brand of paint is used by Ferrari? I have a client that has a few Ferraris, and another on order. I believe it was supposed to have been delivered April/May, but it has been put back to October, as Ferrari are having problems with the paint at the moment. |
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Very much so but the favourite trick of the website retailers is to list a paint has high quality when in reality its not - it is in fact industrial grade - it looks shiny enough when it gets applied but within months it will fade - holds very little UV protection and will not take to polish very well at all - it is what it says it is 'Industrial Grade' its manufactured for the commercial market of industrial equipment / site equipment / fork lift trucks / shipping containers etc (only the retailers don't tell you that and they sell it for an inflated price but under that of vehicle quality paint to make it appear good value) Vehicle quality paint is very different in the quality aspect - holds strong UV fade protection, high yield adhesion qualities, is very durable and will be polishable to within microns of its depth - this applies to both solvent based, single pack & 2 pack paints - I would only ever use a known / named brand from a respected paint manufacture and in my case I have used the Italian based 'Lechler' for several years now - basically you get what you pay for but going back to your question a notable difference short term - that will be down to depth of finish and the skill of the person that applied it - in some cases it could be very difficult to judge between a low / high quality paint when applied - longer term the results would be more than obvious with paint fade / lack of adhesion / durability / wear, abrasion & contact resistance interesting that you say it is an Italian based paint. Do you happen to know if that brand of paint is used by Ferrari? I have a client that has a few Ferraris, and another on order. I believe it was supposed to have been delivered April/May, but it has been put back to October, as Ferrari are having problems with the paint at the moment. I don't - vehicle manufactures usually go to tender for their suppliers and in the commercial world its normally the lowest price supplier that can meet the product spec & lead times of the vehicle manufacture that attain the business - therefore it could be one of several worldwide paint suppliers - manufactures normally retain more than one supplier though just in case - has slowing / stopping production for lack of component / material supply is not a position that they want to be in - in the old days parts / components / materials were stockpiled with enough to support several weeks production but in todays market its all done on a 'just in time' basis where stock levels are automatically controlled by computer vs sales demand - the days of churning cars out to be stockpiled in a field are well over |
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Last Edit: Jun 10, 2019 7:47:14 GMT by Deleted
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norm75
Part of things
Posts: 667
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That would make sense with mass produced vehicles. From the conversation I had with the guy waiting for his car, I am led to believe they only have the one paint supplier, that is Italian.
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samta22
Club Retro Rides Member
Stuck in once more...
Posts: 1,276 
Club RR Member Number: 32
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Just playing catch up... talk about ramping up - how many pages?!  All testament to the quality of the workmanship on display though. Superb work as always Chris. So I wasn't too far off on the colour then?  ghosting issues are a bit of a pain in the proverbial though (what a b*gger!), but no doubt it will be immaculate by the time it is handed over. peteh1969 you must be a very happy man, think I'd be like a kid at Christmas! |
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'37 Austin 7 '56 Austin A35 '58 Austin A35 '65 Triumph Herald 12/50 '69 MGB GT '74 MGB GT V8'73 TA22 Toyota Celica restoration'95 Mercedes SL320 '04 MGTF 135 'Cool Blue' (Mrs' Baby) '05 Land Rover Discovery 3 V8 '67 Abarth 595 (Mrs' runabout) '18 Disco V |
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Very much so but the favourite trick of the website retailers is to list a paint has high quality when in reality its not - it is in fact industrial grade - it looks shiny enough when it gets applied but within months it will fade - holds very little UV protection and will not take to polish very well at all - it is what it says it is 'Industrial Grade' its manufactured for the commercial market of industrial equipment / site equipment / fork lift trucks / shipping containers etc (only the retailers don't tell you that and they sell it for an inflated price but under that of vehicle quality paint to make it appear good value) Vehicle quality paint is very different in the quality aspect - holds strong UV fade protection, high yield adhesion qualities, is very durable and will be polishable to within microns of its depth - this applies to both solvent based, single pack & 2 pack paints - I would only ever use a known / named brand from a respected paint manufacture and in my case I have used the Italian based 'Lechler' for several years now - basically you get what you pay for but going back to your question a notable difference short term - that will be down to depth of finish and the skill of the person that applied it - in some cases it could be very difficult to judge between a low / high quality paint when applied - longer term the results would be more than obvious with paint fade / lack of adhesion / durability / wear, abrasion & contact resistance interesting that you say it is an Italian based paint. Do you happen to know if that brand of paint is used by Ferrari? I have a client that has a few Ferraris, and another on order. I believe it was supposed to have been delivered April/May, but it has been put back to October, as Ferrari are having problems with the paint at the moment. Ferrari have only ever used 3 paint manufacturers. They currently use PPG, prior to that it was Glasurit and prior to that it was Glidden Salchi. |
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 Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern |
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eternaloptimist
Posted a lot
Too many projects, not enough time or space...
Posts: 2,578
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Ferrari have only ever used 3 paint manufacturers. They currently use PPG, prior to that it was Glasurit and prior to that it was Glidden Salchi. That’s one for that part of the long term memory reserved for obscure info which is helpful in pub quizzes. Thanks for sharing. |
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XC70, VW split screen crew cab, Standard Ten
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The colour gets full approval from me. Beautiful |
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That would make sense with mass produced vehicles. From the conversation I had with the guy waiting for his car, I am led to believe they only have the one paint supplier, that is Italian. I doubt that it's quality issues - its more than likely down to production issues with equipment breakdown or raw material supplies not making the grade and therefore being rejected |
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The colour gets full approval from me. Beautiful Not quite 'Minty' but not far away from it either |
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Ferrari have only ever used 3 paint manufacturers. They currently use PPG, prior to that it was Glasurit and prior to that it was Glidden Salchi. That’s one for that part of the long term memory reserved for obscure info which is helpful in pub quizzes. Thanks for sharing. PPG is a massive worldwide brand - turnover is in the billions and employ 45,000 |
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norm75
Part of things
Posts: 667
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That would make sense with mass produced vehicles. From the conversation I had with the guy waiting for his car, I am led to believe they only have the one paint supplier, that is Italian. I doubt that it's quality issues - its more than likely down to production issues with equipment breakdown or raw material supplies not making the grade and therefore being rejected may well be the case. I was once told that the paint finish from the factory leaves a lot to be desired, and when they are imported to this country it is only after many of them undergo a lot of hours paint correctional work that they are then released to the customer. |
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The colour gets full approval from me. Beautiful Not quite 'Minty' but not far away from it either Yes just on the right side of the blue spectrum for me - reminds me a bit of the 60s police cars colour - possibly slightly darker. |
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Duggy
Part of things
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Used to work for a paint manufacturer many years ago when I first left school, one of the main suppliers to BMC the like in the West Midlands, but also some to Ford and others in lower volumes.
This was pre-the introduction of mandatory water-based paints but even then I remember that we used to spend a hell of a lot of time developing the chip and UV resistance of the automotive grade paints. The red pigments suffers really badly from UV deterioration and it was a constant battle for the lab guys to try and blend ever more longer lasting mixtures - me I just used to make the stuff in the ball mills.
Great work on the Corsair though, I absolutely love the colour, it really suits it and it'll pop once the ghosting issue is sorted and the brightwork is all back on and contrasting. Incidentally, it's very close to the colour that I chose when I had my last VW bus painted years ago and is also possibly the same colour as my then brother-in-laws very early MK1 (ex-Police) Escort back in the early 70's.
Keep up the good work - I may not post on here much but I sure do enjoy these resto threads.
Duggy
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Last Edit: Jun 10, 2019 9:54:39 GMT by Duggy
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Jun 10, 2019 10:05:00 GMT
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now it really does look like a stingray ! Tending toward Thunderbird for me  Yeah, but I was on about the fish not the car 😁 |
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Jun 10, 2019 10:18:13 GMT
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More superfluous praise Chris, just proving how you have gained so much respect on the forum 🙂
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Jun 10, 2019 11:37:49 GMT
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In todays market its all done on a 'just in time' basis where stock levels are automatically controlled by computer vs sales demand - the days of churning cars out to be stockpiled in a field are well over And when they first went mad on JIT, back in the eighties/early nineties, it used to be quite lucrative. For some! I was transport manager of a small haulage firm, we used Transits, panel and box, and concentrated on "Specials", which was a polite way of saying, "Oh, poo, someone's cut it a bit fine." Local to us, i.e., 500 yards, was a major supplier of seat foams to BL, and at least two or three times a week the phone would go asking if we could do a Transit load of seats ASAP to to keep the plant running for an hour or so, whilst their HGV driver sat out his hours somewhere en-route. Big problem = premium rate. Always delivered, so nobody could argue.  Had the same deal going with John Lewis. We ran four vans a week into Stevenage from the Manchester area. They had 20+ small companies sewing pillow cases, duvets and the like from units dotted all over the place, so we'd collect from each one and consolidate the loads as JL required. Then many a time I'd get a call asking if they could hijack the van after dropping for a special run to a store. Of course. The beauty of (then) no tacho. But we got known for what we did. I reckon things have changed a bit. I always imagined a guy with a clipboard, dimp behind his ear, counting stock, looking at watch and releasing a load of expletives. It's probably a bit more scientific now! And before anyone moans about management, a mate of mine started a seafood import business. Did really well until a certain hotel chain became his MAJOR customer (I did warn him) and he wound up having to send a box with two or three trout or salmon, from Cheshire to London four days a week. I did those runs and was back in the yard by 8am. Yup, sadly, he went bankrupt. God, that went off on one a bit! Sorry.  |
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Last Edit: Jun 10, 2019 11:58:35 GMT by georgeb
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Duggy
Part of things
Posts: 129
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Jun 10, 2019 13:20:41 GMT
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In todays market its all done on a 'just in time' basis where stock levels are automatically controlled by computer vs sales demand - the days of churning cars out to be stockpiled in a field are well over And when they first went mad on JIT, back in the eighties/early nineties, it used to be quite lucrative. For some! I was transport manager of a small haulage firm, we used Transits, panel and box, and concentrated on "Specials", which was a polite way of saying, "Oh, poo, someone's cut it a bit fine." Local to us, i.e., 500 yards, was a major supplier of seat foams to BL, and at least two or three times a week the phone would go asking if we could do a Transit load of seats ASAP to to keep the plant running for an hour or so, whilst their HGV driver sat out his hours somewhere en-route. Big problem = premium rate. Always delivered, so nobody could argue. Had the same deal going with John Lewis. We ran four vans a week into Stevenage from the Manchester area. They had 20+ small companies sewing pillow cases, duvets and the like from units dotted all over the place, so we'd collect from each one and consolidate the loads as JL required. Then many a time I'd get a call asking if they could hijack the van after dropping for a special run to a store. Of course. The beauty of (then) no tacho. But we got known for what we did. I reckon things have changed a bit. I always imagined a guy with a clipboard, dimp behind his ear, counting stock, looking at watch and releasing a load of expletives. It's probably a bit more scientific now! And before anyone moans about management, a mate of mine started a seafood import business. Did really well until a certain hotel chain became his MAJOR customer (I did warn him) and he wound up having to send a box with two or three trout or salmon, from Cheshire to London four days a week. I did those runs and was back in the yard by 8am. Yup, sadly, he went bankrupt. God, that went off on one a bit! Sorry. I don't think things have changed all that much in the industry to be honest. The main difference now is that global supply chains like TNT and DHL and the like have convinced the likes of JLR that they don't need to use local suppliers because they can guarantee access to cheaper ones on the far side of Europe. The problem is though, they can't, hence why you now see loads of Lithuanian registered Sprinter Luton vans whizzing about all over Europe struggling to keep the tracks running. My son works in the supply chain for DHL at JLR and he tells me lots of stories of how local trades have been cast adrift because of globalisation and the rush to outsource. Sad but true. |
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Jun 10, 2019 13:21:05 GMT
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Not quite 'Minty' but not far away from it either Yes just on the right side of the blue spectrum for me - reminds me a bit of the 60s police cars colour - possibly slightly darker. There is another (much less seen) Ford UK colour from 1969/70 called Light Green (Code CR). It looks very similar to Lagoon (Code CJ) until you put the two next to each other and then Lagoon looks very blue and Light Green looks very ... errr.... green! |
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Jun 10, 2019 15:48:46 GMT
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I love the results of a color sanded and polished paint job, and while I can block sand till the cows come home and be quite content, color sanding is the one bodywork task that I can not bring myself to do. By the time the paint comes out of the gun, and assuming it came out right with low orange peel and nice reflection, I am ready to move on to the next project!
To be clear ( pardon pun) this is a base clear system you are using? Cause if it is a base clear, any remediation will require a lot of clear coat removal no?
What you refer to as "Ghosting" is it a see-through to the primer or an actual pigmentation difference in certain areas of the paint? Or is that the same thing? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Jun 10, 2019 15:54:19 GMT
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To be clear ( pardon pun) this is a base clear system you are using? Cause if it is a base clear, any remediation will require a lot of clear coat removal no? That's a 2K Direct Gloss paint. Lechler Macrofan 1 to be precise by the look of it. |
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern |
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All testament to the quality of the workmanship on display though. Superb work as always Chris.
ghosting issues are a bit of a pain in the proverbial though (what a b*gger!), but no doubt it will be immaculate by the time it is handed over. 
