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Fiat 850 Special - My Way

nmretro Part of things Posts: 340	Fiat 850 Special - My Way nmretro @nmretro
	Feb 2, 2018 18:08:15 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	I leave the bent seal cut a little long like on the left side of the picture. That allows them to crush down and form the seal. I’ve never soaked the gaskets first (not saying it’s wrong) At the gasket joints I use a small amount of Permatex gray. I’ve never had a leak. The centrifugal filter works quite well if it’s cleaned regularly.
	1987 Alfa Milano/75 1979 Alfetta Mille Miglia 1976 Alfetta GT race car 1970 Lancia Fulvia 1.3 Rallye S 1968 Fiat 850 spider

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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	Feb 12, 2018 13:40:36 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	So, oil sump time! After listening to above mentioned advice I complemented it by some googling and then set to work. I soaked the square bits in oil, pressed them in place, and cut them 2-3 mm above the sump flange. I then dressed the ends of the flat bits to fit the flange and fastend them by adding a thin smear of Loctite flange paste. Another thin smear of flange paste was added to the block and the oil sump was screwed in place using Allen screws. Here the first drawback of a winged sump became obvious. Access to the screws was not easy... However. The Swedish cinnamon roll method was used to fasten the screws and it turned out quite nicely. The next drawback of a winged sump became obvious when I tried to put the exhaust back. The wing on the sump wouldn't let the exhaust box slide in place on the collectors. And I didn't want to loosen the manifold from the head (in retrospect it would have been easier and quicker though...). I resorted to brute force! A two ton ratchet spanner, a three ton trolley jack, a crow bar and a selection of strong words and VIOLA! The third, and final, drawback of the winged sump was that the flywheel cover did not fit. That was easily rectified with my angle grinder though :-) My previous two 850s were both missing the protective covers underneath the engine compartment. Om this car they were in place and covered in half an inch of underseal. I gave them a good clean, saved a few kilograms, covered them in a thin layer of new underseal, and screwed them in place. And the result: A lower rear end with shiny sump, straight fitting exhaust and bottom engine covers. OH YEAH!
	Last Edit: Mar 14, 2018 15:40:20 GMT by flashelmer forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200273/fiat-850-special

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Deleted Posts: 0	Fiat 850 Special - My WayDeleted @Deleted
	Feb 12, 2018 15:43:43 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	That is a very cool little car. I too have a soft spot for wee Italian cars. Drove the wheel nuts off an 903cc 127 shortly after getting my license. Became adept at changing head gaskets in no time.


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nmretro Part of things Posts: 340	Fiat 850 Special - My Way nmretro @nmretro
	Feb 12, 2018 16:24:58 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	You probably know this but those covers are to make sure the hot air exiting through the radiator does not get sucked back in by the fan. Glad you installed them here. I’m surprised your previous cars didn’t overheat, must be the mild Swedish climate.
	1987 Alfa Milano/75 1979 Alfetta Mille Miglia 1976 Alfetta GT race car 1970 Lancia Fulvia 1.3 Rallye S 1968 Fiat 850 spider

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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	Mar 14, 2018 15:56:50 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Usually I try to avoid tinkering with things that work. Now I have made an exception and gone through the fully working Weber made by Holley... It looked fine but now it is a little cleaner, has new gaskets, o-rings, filter and needle valve. Oh, and I polished the brass parts... I cleaned all the parts in my ultrasonic bath. I put the parts in a plastic bag with white spirit and fill the bath with hot water. I have also put a question in the "questions section": What has this grille belonged to??? Mystery Grille???
	Last Edit: Apr 5, 2018 18:52:26 GMT by flashelmer forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200273/fiat-850-special

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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	Apr 5, 2018 18:43:11 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Still winter in the part of Sweden where I dwell although the temperature has been above zero for a few days now. The snow is slowly thawing away. Have done a few things to the Fiat. Adjusted the valves. Dead simple on these engines: Put the restored carburettor back and the valve cover with some fresh paint on it and a new gasket: And then the previously restored air cleaner with a new air filter: It still started Front suspension on the Fiat 850 is by transverse leaf spring. A simple way to lower the front is to replace the pressed steel spring mount by a U-shaped piece of steel or aluminium. Original front suspension: Original pressed steel spring mount: I had a local firm bend a piece of 4 mm aluminium and drilled a few holes. Hope it fits :-):
	forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200273/fiat-850-special

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ceesdeborst Europe Posts: 74	Fiat 850 Special - My Way ceesdeborst @ceesdeborst
	Apr 6, 2018 10:09:35 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Beware of the positive camber you get by using this kind of plate. I am still planning to weld extensions on the hubs. that way you 2,5cm lowering.


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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	Apr 10, 2018 17:53:56 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Snow is finally thawing away. Any day now I will be able to get the car out :-) Time to get the wheels spinning! Fitted the lowering plate. It was quite easy and straight forward (and not to forget - Shiny!): The plate moves the leaf spring a good 36 mm upwards. Consequently the car should sit 36 mm lower. I expected the car to be on the limit to too low (easily cured with shims). But when I put it back on the ground it looks like this???!!!... I hope it will set when I drive the car. Otherwise I will weld ears on the hubs and add some camber too. Next step was to modify the rear arches to accomodate the wheels. I removed the rear spring which was a pain since access is very limited. The third incarnation of my home built spring removal tool did the trick though! I bought an arch roller but was worried that rolling wouldn't be enough to clear the wheels. Since I have never done it before I was also worried to destroy the arches and end up with a car with irreversibly damaged arches that still couldn't use the sexy baby Miura wheels... I watched a few videos on Youtube and finally got around to give it a go. I heated the arch from both sides with a heat gun until it was too hot to touch, and started to massage first the lip and then the whole arch. Luckily there were no filler and the arch extended without the paint cracking. After a while it looked like this: You can of course argue that the arch is destroyed since it's not original any more, but I think it looks quite ok. The lines are not quite factory smooth and a small annoying ripple developed above the arch :-( But for a first attempt on a car with the intention to look a bit racey I'm happy! After a few iterations with the wheel fitted and more rolling, the wheel was able to reach the bump stop. Like this: Win! I cut half a turn from the rear spring and and put everything back together. Other side next!
	forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200273/fiat-850-special

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tristanh Part of things Routinely bewildered Posts: 990	Fiat 850 Special - My Way tristanh @tristanh
	Apr 10, 2018 19:47:52 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	I love this car, and those rims. Nice arch work
	Whether you believe you can, or you cannot, you're probably right.

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rblote Posted a lot Posts: 2,074	Fiat 850 Special - My Way rblote @rblote
	Apr 10, 2018 22:04:02 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Apr 10, 2018 19:47:52 GMT tristanh said: I love this car, and those rims. Nice arch work I agree, a great car indeed


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nmretro Part of things Posts: 340	Fiat 850 Special - My Way nmretro @nmretro
	Apr 11, 2018 13:32:26 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Arches look great
	1987 Alfa Milano/75 1979 Alfetta Mille Miglia 1976 Alfetta GT race car 1970 Lancia Fulvia 1.3 Rallye S 1968 Fiat 850 spider

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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	Apr 18, 2018 15:14:30 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Thank you for your support and kind comments! Nope! It did not set at all when I drove the car. It was still as high as Bob Marley at his legendary concert at the Lyceum in 1975... And, as ceesdeborst correctly pointed out, it also had quite a lot of positive camber. Nothing for it then - ears on the hubs it is! I found some 5 mm steel under my work bench and made up extensions. These will lower the car a further 50 mm and add camber. I also cut a piece of rectangular section steel to the same length as the width of the cart spring bushes. Lined everything up and clamped it together: Since I'm an engineer I could have made some measurements and calculated the correct angle for the ears. I did not. Some good old trial and error. Tacked in place: The bushes look pretty cracked but seem solid enough for the time beeing. I connected the spring and lowered the car to the ground. I used two pieces of juice carton with a splash of oil in between to get the suspension to set correctly. Measured. Neutral camber. I could have had the car a centimetre or two lower but did not dare to make the ears any longer. This will have to wait until I go for lower wishbones. Second attempt resulted in too much camber so I settled for somewhere in between. Welded up and painted: The finished product. Front end of tyre touches the arch when turning right. Have to get the roller out again... And do the other side of course.
	Last Edit: Apr 18, 2018 15:27:17 GMT by flashelmer forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200273/fiat-850-special

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thebaron Europe Over the river, heading out of town Posts: 1,659	Fiat 850 Special - My Way thebaron @thebaron
	Apr 18, 2018 16:16:39 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	I continue to love all of the tweaks you are doing to this. Keep up the excellent work.
	2022 Toyota GR86 - Hachi Roku - New dog, old tricks 2012 BMW 528iX Estate - Family hauler 1989 Toyota EP71 Starlet - Rally

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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	Apr 23, 2018 18:31:13 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Apr 18, 2018 16:16:39 GMT thebaron said: I continue to love all of the tweaks you are doing to this. Keep up the excellent work. Thanks a lot! I do it My Way
	forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200273/fiat-850-special

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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	Apr 23, 2018 19:04:34 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	The roller I bought was used on the very smallest setting for the rear arches. There I could release the damper and lower the suspension quite a lot. At the front with the lowering beam mounted and ears on the hubs the roller was waaayyy to long even at the smallest setting Out with my beloved angle grinder and a drill to modify the roller then: Modifications left to right: 1. Cut the outer square profile just above the locking nut. Gained 20 mm. 2. Drilled an extra hole for the joining pin to be able to move the roller closer to the mounting plate. 3. V shaped cutout to be able to reach a narrower angle between the roller and the mounting plate. 4. Square shaped cutout to be able to slide the inner square profile further down. When I removed the guiding pin from the hub to be able to mount the roller I realised that the 850 Special has a 5 mm spacer fitted as original equipment!!! I tested to mount the wheel without it and that was no problem at all! I can not believe such luck! With the gentlest of rolls and some pushing out of the front end of the arch, the wheel can be turned and sits nicely in the arch. Win! As I said before I would have liked to go a bit lower but the car is now lowered 36+50=86 mm, which I my world is a lot. I'll put something heavy in the boot for shows Just one corner left now
	Last Edit: Apr 23, 2018 19:06:09 GMT by flashelmer forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200273/fiat-850-special

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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	May 15, 2018 9:04:44 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	One, very obvious, drawback with the "Trial and Error" method is, of course, the "Error" part. After I finished the last corner, adjusted the toe (which was waaayyyy off after the lowering) and drove the car out, the suspension settled. A lot! I don't know why it didn't do this earlier, but maybe it was held up by the other front wheel? The car was now too low and had a really silly camber. Too low: Silly camber (I know some people consider this as cool but I'm opting for a sixties race car look): 1st of May each year there is an Italian gathering at Skokloster Castle just south from where I live. I really wanted to go there in the Fiat and time was short so I decided to cheat a bit. The silly camber was left as it was and I raised the car 20 mm by adding shims between the lowering beam and the spring. The hole in the middle is for centering the spring and the cutouts are for centering the shims: I then threw in the replica Abarth instruments. The speedometer cable was 20 mm too short so nothing is connected for the time beeing. They look cool though: And the seventies look seats: The short test ride was unsuccessful. The car ran on idle but died as soon as I thought of touching the accelerator. It turned out the fuel line from the tank was blocked. I managed to blow air through it but did not manage to suck any petrol through it. Since the car has been standing for 25 years I guess there is a high possibility for all sorts of deposits in the tank. I solved this by installing a second petrol tank... I have not yet looked into how to remove the original petrol tank for cleaning. I'm afraid it is an engine and gearbox out job. Or can it be removed from inside via the parcel shelf? Does anyone know?: On the 1st of May the rain was pouring and the temperature was just on the positive side of the Celsius scale. With a friend and one of the daughters in the car the front left wheel touched the arch sometimes. I tried to prevent this by accelerating constantly... As a consequence of the conditions, not much exotica showed up. We soldiered on though:
	Last Edit: Aug 16, 2018 9:08:42 GMT by flashelmer forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200273/fiat-850-special

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ceesdeborst Europe Posts: 74	Fiat 850 Special - My Way ceesdeborst @ceesdeborst
	May 15, 2018 9:21:12 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	nice "roadkill" solution on the gastank..haha Paul vanderheyden once told me the hole in the lowering tabs should be 25mm lower and 3mm more to the inside. this should give -1,5 camber. How did you make the replica instrument panel? nice work. An original is like made of gold and not to be found..


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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	May 30, 2018 17:50:37 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	The weather has been really warm recently and my urge to sit inside in front of the computer and update this thread has been limited. Mostly I have been driving around in my Giulia eating ice cream Life could be worse... Well well - some things have been done to the little Fiat. I had to sort the ride height and the silly camber. I cut a triangular piece out of the extensions, slid them a few millimetres and welded them back on again. Not as pretty as last time but it could not be helped. I rolled the arches a bit more and finally the wheels sit where I want them to. Ride height: Silly camber gone: Now it has been possible to drive the car properly I have no idea how fast it is since the instrumets are not connected but It feels totally hillarious! I also realised a few more things about the lowering beam I installed. The below image is the car with 20 mm of shims in between the beam and the spring. With no shims the spring is on the bump stops with two people in the car. So to use the lowering beam with no shims the bump stops need to be modified and you also need to hammer down (or cut) the lip between the bump stop and the beam. I have also improved the RoadKill petrol supply by removing the spare petrol can and sticking the tube through the filler neck instead... Please note the breather tube in the filler neck
	forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200273/fiat-850-special

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flashelmer Part of things I'm a Fiat man! Posts: 93	Fiat 850 Special - My Way flashelmer @flashelmer
	May 30, 2018 17:58:58 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	May 15, 2018 9:21:12 GMT ceesdeborst said: nice "roadkill" solution on the gastank..haha Paul vanderheyden once told me the hole in the lowering tabs should be 25mm lower and 3mm more to the inside. this should give -1,5 camber. How did you make the replica instrument panel? nice work. An original is like made of gold and not to be found.. It has turned out a bit more RoadKill than I expected it to. Fouling wheels, bodged fuel supply and no working instruments... Speaking of Roadkill - My favorite quote is "No amount of Duct Tape can fix this!" I bought the replica instruments from a bloke in Italy who makes them. I can send his contact details to those who want them.
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Clement Europe ambitious but rubbish Posts: 2,095	Fiat 850 Special - My Way Clement @froggyclement
	Aug 16, 2018 6:54:22 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	I only just noticed this while looking for Giulia stuff - lovely 850 Enjoying the warm summer much?
	Clément / Alfa Giulia

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