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Nice work!
I have a soft spot for the Farina estates (and any 50's/60's long roofs), such good lines.
As far as the four link goes I would try to get some rubber in there somewhere. Not for the reasons given (as there is no geometry sorted yet) but for the ride quality. I've always used Triumph shock absorber bushes (7/16" bore) in machined double tapered housings and found the results to be excellent. My current build (wifeys pop) uses these in a Satchell link set up.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-(
2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap
V8 Humber Hawk
1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD
1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Try looking up off road 4 link suspension, and try to get to the Rock Rod / Busted Knuckle videos on Youtube. A bit bigger than you are using but explains a lot of what goes on geometry wise.
Easily getting 3 feet of wheel travel, but the links are 4feet long. I will try to find some of my info, but the vids will be better if you can find them.
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no exactly the doyens of suspension technology, but the way land rover got around it when going from leaf springs to coilsprings/trailing arms on the range rover in 1970s (which the "defender" inherited in 1983) was to make the upper link an A shape, so 2 upper arms on the axle merging to 1 upper connection at the chassis (make no mistake it was one heck of beefy balljoint though)
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,617
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^ was going to site similar examples of Lotus Cortina A-frame & Alfa 105 Giulia, with transverse 'diagonal' location arms mounting at single point on diff centre for better geometry, even though Cortina diff casing wasn't appropriately reinforced for the loads, leading to oil-free diffs. & reversion to leaf-springs.
Amazing the flawed 4-links were so popular in the '70's to make them seem appropriate.
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Last Edit: Aug 21, 2018 11:21:17 GMT by 79cord
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Aug 21, 2018 10:21:36 GMT
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Thoroughly enjoyed the build to date, and can easily remember this style of vehicle when they were new, out on the road. Re the 4 link system on the back end, and the discussion of how to anchor the individual arms, would 'rose joints' be an acceptable solution?
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815 
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Aug 21, 2018 21:22:32 GMT
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Thanks for the comments - I think there is a plan to go with the Escort style bushes at one end of the 4-link arms. The 4x4 stuff I know reasonable well, as I messed with them in a previously life. Amongst other a Foers Ibex - based on a Land Rover 90  Huge travel isn't always great for handling and control ;-) That was replaced with a custom creation which scared the be-jesus out of me, with 4-links front and back  Desperately off topic - but I almost finished it  |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Aug 21, 2018 21:48:00 GMT
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Straight back on topic..... The drivers side external floorpans have been primered/seam sealed and then raptored. Then I threw some colour on. I'm not aiming for a show underside, just something I can work with, without getting covered in underseal. There is so much new metal in there - Floorpan sections
- Outriggers
- Inner sills
- Outer sills
- Chassis rails !!
I've got another session of clean/primer/seam-seal/raptor to do on the floor pans, but that will be so much easier when the axle/prop is out . But I'm in two minds if I should continue with that - or I should hang/rework the doors so they have a passable fit. |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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Aug 21, 2018 22:04:27 GMT
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fantastic workmanship , i tip my hat
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,359
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Aug 21, 2018 22:23:04 GMT
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I’ve been in touch with the bloke who posted the videos of various setups I mentioned earlier. Unfortunately he’s no longer got the films, or the models he made to illustrate the issues. 😕
All I can suggest is you google the topic, because it’s something that a lot of people have had to work around. It might be worth considering engineering the body mounts in such a way as they could accept a rubber bush as well as the joints you have, so that if you try it and it doesn’t work then you don’t have to rework your freshly repaired shell.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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I’ve been in touch with the bloke who posted the videos of various setups I mentioned earlier. Unfortunately he’s no longer got the films, or the models he made to illustrate the issues. 😕 All I can suggest is you google the topic, because it’s something that a lot of people have had to work around. It might be worth considering engineering the body mounts in such a way as they could accept a rubber bush as well as the joints you have, so that if you try it and it doesn’t work then you don’t have to rework your freshly repaired shell. Thanks for your efforts Glen Top mounts will be bolt on, as that is the way the MGB conversions do it. Similarly the bottom mounts will use the original forward leaf spring mount. I'll mock it up on the garage floor, and cycle the suspension using jacks to make sure binding isn't an issue. Hopefully that will be a fair test. |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,882
Club RR Member Number: 39
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i can see as a result of the top and bottom arms being unequal length and not working in paralell (in same arc) to each other, is going to result in some funky caster changes during body roll, which will be specific to each side of the vehicle as it happens If one side is in droop the other in bump, the different length arms will try to rotate the axle (caster) but only at one end of the axle. but it won't be able to rotate as the trailing arms are fixed length and rose jointed, and the arms on the other end of the axle will prevent it rotating. so it will pull or push chassis mountings/ axle mountings. not so much a lack of articulation, but a lack of reciprocation Effectively the arms need to get marginally longer or shorter depending on where the axle is at, and rubber bushing would allow that What he says ^^^ It’s not about articulation, it’s about fixed lengths. If you replicated it in meccano it would make a solid parallelogram, and you’d get no movement at all. There was a big conversation about it on another forum a few years back, and one of the contributors linked to some really good animated illustrations; I’ll see if I can find them. I am not convinced. If we had a Watts or a Panhard that was fixing the lateral location I can see where the the axle would be made into a torque tube by the differences in the link lengths trying to twist the axle. - However, with the diagonal mounted top links the difference in lengths could be transposed into an angular / lateral change. It would need further thought as we are looking movement in a 3 dimensions. And it could be no different to the rear steer imposed in a parallel equal length + Watts system. It may be that with this system instead of locking the difference in the lengths of the upper arms just walks the axle. |
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,359
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Aug 22, 2018 10:24:11 GMT
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That’s why mocking it up helps. Going up and down isn’t a problem, but one side going up when the other goes down can mean the axle tries to twist, which it can’t, so the forces are transferred laterally to the mounts. Using different linkages to limit sideways movement complicates matters, as you say. Being restricted to using pre-existing mounting points and working within the physical constraints of the original bodyshell adds another layer of complexity. To be honest, even if were possible to engineer a layout that caused no binding whatsoever, the NVH issues would stop me using joints like that myself; but it’s not my project. 😃
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Aug 25, 2018 17:11:10 GMT
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Well I've got some sleeves to be welded on and some Escort bushes. My logic was if it is good enough for an Escort rally car with loads of horsepower and rough treatment, it'll be fine for my Morris. But they are smaller than I was expecting - they take 3/8" bolts, I was hoping to use the 1/2" bolts in the picture.   I'll have no panhard or watts linkage - will 4 x 3/8's bolts be enough to keep my axle where it is supposed to be ? Thanks |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,359
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Aug 25, 2018 17:27:13 GMT
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I would think so. As you say, they’re the size used on performance Escorts. If it helps, early Land-Rovers had 1/2” shackle bolts, and they’re a good deal heavier than your Farina. 👍😃
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,832
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Aug 26, 2018 12:40:46 GMT
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If the bolt is in double shear, it will be plenty strong enough, assuming its a grade 8.8 or better
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style.
Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Aug 26, 2018 20:01:17 GMT
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Got myself a nice eBay bargain the other day. A Viair 350C compressor for the air suspension. New and boxed for just over £90 on my doorstep   It'll fit nicely into this cubby box under the floor behind the petrol tank  If anyone reading this has an easy way to supply and cut some 4mm steel brackets for me - check out my thread hereThanks for looking |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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Aug 26, 2018 20:33:00 GMT
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I'm liking what you're doing with the Oxford. How did you find applying the raptor?
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1966 Ford Cortina GT
2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Aug 26, 2018 21:09:42 GMT
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I'm liking what you're doing with the Oxford. How did you find applying the raptor? Thanks The Raptor is pretty easy to apply. If you have enough space to keep the gun 12" from the panel, and can keep it moving, it'll go on a treat. If you are lying on your back - like I was, this is sometimes tricky, so it goes on heavy unless you control the trigger. Going on heavy helps to disguise my messy seal sealing though  |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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Aug 26, 2018 21:41:18 GMT
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I'm liking what you're doing with the Oxford. How did you find applying the raptor? Thanks The Raptor is pretty easy to apply. If you have enough space to keep the gun 12" from the panel, and can keep it moving, it'll go on a treat. If you are lying on your back - like I was, this is sometimes tricky, so it goes on heavy unless you control the trigger. Going on heavy helps to disguise my messy seal sealing though Thanks for the tip! I'll be on my back doing it |
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1966 Ford Cortina GT
2018 Ford Fiesta ST
Full time engineer, part time waffler on Youtube - see Jim_Builds
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Aug 27, 2018 18:11:03 GMT
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Bank holiday weather meant I was granted some more garage time this afternoon. I decided that it was time to whip out the back axle - like you do  But I wanted some datums from the old axle. I made two of these wooden "stands" hold the original axle in a known position  Same thing on the other side, transferred the markings to the floor and found a centre line.  Also held the prop at the original height  The old and the new both on the floor.  The original axle has one lever arm damper, and one telescopic, because I did a trial fitting of the telescopic kit. That will give me some good measurements of where those mounts need to go. I've still got some cleaning and painting on the rear underside, but that will be straightforward now the axle is out of the way.  But to prove the concept of the wooden axle stands, I decided to heave the axle into the same place as the original. The MGB axles is a smidge narrower that the A60 axle, and the drums aren't on at the moment, but the placing is working out well.  Couldn't resist mocking up the 4-link with magnets to prove the concept.  Yep - pretty happy with that. Well worth the time, as now it is obvious I have to fit the shocks first, as their location is largely fixed. The breather valve is in the way of the top mounts, I will look into moving that. MGB wheelnuts aren't the same as Morris Oxford ones, so I couldn't bolt the wooden plates on nice and square. But a very productive afternoon |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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