|
|
|
|
|
This has been a project I've had sitting for over the last four years that I've finally started to get working on, with several setbacks through the years. The car in question is a 1951 170S that made its way to the US at some point (European car) and even spent some time in a museum and won 1st place at a car show in 1973. In 2012, I purchased the rolling shell from a man who I discovered graduated from the same high school I did overseas in Germany (stationed overseas with the US Military) exactly 50 years prior! So that was a pretty cool backstory and we often reminisce about doing the same exact things 50 years apart. That said, the car hasn't been on the road since '78 or so, and it was left to sit outside for well over 30 years. No original motor or transmission to speak of, but everything else was there (until the rear suspension and axle assembly was removed and sold off about a year ago). Most of the rust is purely surface rust, and the only portion that is rotted out completely is the rear where the trunk (or boot for those across the pond or down under) is; it looks like the car had been improperly lifted and dropped, causing damage and aiding the development of the rot. Plans for the car are to restore the body and interior the best I can to preserve the original look (no rat rod this time), but upgrade the drivetrain to something more modern under the hood to make it a fun/reliable car I could daily if I chose to do so! The previous owner owns a shop that specializes in Miatas and developed a turbo system, so there is no shortage of Miata parts around! The idea is to likely roll with a naturally aspirated 1.6 or 1.8, and perhaps do a turbo down the road depending on how much space I have to work with. I'd rather not mutilate the firewall if I don't have to.
Plans have changed now in favor of either an M102, or and M111 to keep it all Mercedes!For the rear end, I had thought about adapting an entire Miata rear subframe (it's so nice how it comes out as a perfect rectangular unit), but the arches in the frame of the 170 proved that there would be a lot more cutting and welding and fitting than I'd like to do. Going back to stock isn't much of option since all that stuff is sold off, hard to find, and the car would likely roll an ungodly amount when cornering at speed, especially with a motor that's making three times the power of the original 1.8L! That leaves me with attempting to source a solid rear from a small pickup to do the job. No shortage of pickups of any size around here in Texas, but I've been trying to find someone parting a truck out so I don't have to drive over an hour to the southside of town (San Antonio is a BIG city) and spend a day at the yard out in the Texas heat trying to remove an ENTIRE rear suspension. It's probably going to come to that, though. My goal is to get it running and moving under its own power so I can get it home and do the cosmetics and body work here at the house. The color you'll see in the photos is NOT the original color either. I will reach out to the Mercedes Classic Center at some point and see if they can tell me what it was. Either way, I'm leaning toward 040 black, or perhaps doing a generic matte black finish instead. Not too sure yet. At any rate, time for some photos!     Most of the interior is in great shape, with just a few nicks here and there, but I'm likely going to have them reupholstered anyway. Still on the fence between sticking with leather (doing a true white leather!) or going cloth. Here's the only rot and the damage I had mentioned before:    It's slightly pushed up in the center, so that prevents the trunk lid from closing all the way, but this isn't too much of a challenge to sort. After browsing many threads on here, I've seen people recover from WAY worse! I plan to pick up a media blaster to essentially blast the entire car, but that's all stuff I can do when I get the car home. The rest of it is rock-solid, and the floorboard has no holes or areas of concern to speak of either. |
| |
Last Edit: Mar 27, 2016 8:49:29 GMT by Azryael
'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That's a beautiful looking car
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thats probably worth a lot of money in standard condition in Europe
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Plans for the car are to restore the body and interior the best I can to preserve the original look (no rat rod this time), but upgrade the drivetrain to something more modern under the hood to make it a fun/reliable car I could daily if I chose to do so! The previous owner owns a shop that specializes in Miatas and developed a turbo system, so there is no shortage of Miata parts around! The idea is to likely roll with a naturally aspirated 1.6 or 1.8, and perhaps do a turbo down the road depending on how much space I have to work with. I'd rather not mutilate the firewall if I don't have to." Sounds like an ace plan. Oh, and can you get rid of the awful steering wheel 'glove' please.  |
| |
|
|
|
|
1951 Mercedes-Benz 170SDarrenW
@darrenw
Club Retro Rides Member 74
|
|
|
These are beautiful cars and I love the sound of the plans! Looking forward to updates  |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2016 15:08:09 GMT
|
|
Thanks for the support!
Believe it or not, it's the convertibles that command the major value here in the US and even overseas! The solid roof sedans like mine seem to top around $70,000.
As this is my first true restoration, this is a car I plan to keep for life, so the end-all value is far from my mind. This is a labor of love and joy and the experience I will gain will be invaluable.
That steering wheel wrap will be taken off at some point, I just hadn't gotten around to it yet! Crossing my fingers that what's underneath will be in good shape!
The biggest hold-up right now is the lack of a rear suspension. I'd imagine getting everything lined up and aligned appropriately is going to be a whole different ballgame as well.
|
| |
'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
|
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2016 17:27:25 GMT
|
|
What a fabulous old Merc, good luck with the project !
|
| |
1994 Mercedes e220 petrol estate, daily driver.
1998 Peugeot 406 Coupe 3.0 v6, shopping car.
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2016 18:53:36 GMT
|
|
Plans today to test fit the motor and trans have been delayed due to other things getting in the way, but I'm curious to get that done to see if there is room for a turbo. If there is, I will be all over it! Engine management will for sure be handled by Megasquirt.
|
| |
'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
|
brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,108 
|
|
|
|
|
* this is relevant to my interests
P.S. Sweet!
P.P.S. thought about keeping it in the family and finding a junk yard c230 or c240 / c280 with a 6 speed and just smoking around in that?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
/\ What he said... or M103 or even M116... better go for M117 |
| |
|
|
|
|
brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,108
|
|
Mar 25, 2016 12:40:01 GMT
|
|
The w124 cars are very cheap over this side of the water.... Hmmmmm.... Om606
Diesel alternative?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2016 14:42:22 GMT
|
I have a spare M117 block, but a V8 and an I6 are both too large to fit without cutting up the firewall. Finding a manual W202 over here isn't the easiest, at least down here in Texas. The same goes for a 124. There was a 190E 2.6 with a 5-speed manual at the yard, but that motor had been destroyed by people yanking off bits and pieces. Initially I did want to keep it MB, but the logistics of finding an M102 (which is probably the best bet for an MB motor) locally and getting the 5-speed with it is next to impossible! Hell, I even considered another M102.983 16V motor with the getrag 5-speed behind it like in my 190E 2.3-16! I'd even considered an OM616 or the 617, but again, transmissions are hard to come buy and those who have them are beginning to want a fortune. That said, I do have a build planned with an OM606 in the future! The nice thing is that if I wanted to, I'll be able to sell off the Miata motor and trans if I come across something else. I'm looking at it more or less as a means to get it moving and out of the shop ASAP! I'm wishing this were the larger 220 sedan, because then an I6 or a V8 would be no issue! I have a W136, but this is a W187, which is the larger cousin (essentially a precursor S-Class, while the W136 falls in line as being the E-Class):  |
| |
'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
|
brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,108
|
|
Mar 25, 2016 16:47:30 GMT
|
|
The engine / gearbox combination isn't that rare in the northeast, my local pick and pull has one on the shelf. Keep an eye on copart, salvage ones come up somewhat regularly.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2016 18:36:55 GMT
|
|
Great project and a lovely looking car.
Personally, since you can't rebuild it to factory spec due to the missing parts I'd opt for an M103 with it's four speed autobox. Yeah, I know you need to the cut the bulkhead to fit but hell it's a (great) Merc engine and transmission in a Merc giving plenty of power/torque pushing that not so aerodynamic body. Should be sweet with six cylinders and make a lovely cruiser too. A four pot and turbo just don't seem right.
Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.
|
| |
Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2016 22:19:28 GMT
|
|
The 2.6 M103 I had in my 190E 2.6 with the 5-speed manual I had when living in Germany was fantastic. I miss that car, so much.
One thing I don't want is a slush box. I have the appropriate vintage gear selector for the floor, and I want to keep it a manual. That's why I said the combination I'm looking for is rare. M102/103s with slushboxes are all around here, but 99% of those transmissions are needing rebuilds, which is usually the cause for those cars ending up in the yard in the first place. If I go back to that yard and that manual 190E 2.6 is still there, and has the box in it, I'll pull the box and set it aside and look for an M103 (maybe step it up and roll with a 3.0)
The other thing that makes the M103 (and even the M102) a hard choice is the intake manifold/CIS setup, which alone in my 16V eats up about 1 entire foot of width!! This could be remedied by running ITBs and EFI, and obviously ditching non-important components (power steering would be nice, but I've lived without it before, and the factory steering box is actually nice and smooth and doesn't require much effort to manipulate even at low-speed which I learned when pushing it around the shop). AC is something I'd like to add, but I'll need to see what alternatives there are for that which don't rely on a motor driven compressor (if such a system even exists).
I wanna say the only 203 C-Classes we got here in the US with the 6-speed manual were the C230 Kompressors with the supercharged I4 M111. The follow-on V6s were likely all mated to automatics, though I'd considered a V6 as well, but both the M272 and M112 V6s that came in the 203-chassis cars are pretty damn huge. In fact, the 3.5L M272 V6 is what I have in my 2009 E350, and the size of that motor rivals my M117!
My experience with the 722 automatic has been great when the box is in top shape, but otherwise terrible because they get to the point where they need a rebuild, which I've done before and don't want to do again! Rebuilding a manual gearbox is fine with me, it's a totally different beast. Manual transmissions are an absolute must for me!
That said I'm getting the Miata motor and trans for free, so it's not like I'm investing anything other than time into something I would feel I've wasted money on to pull back out and swap. Consider it a means to a greater end, if you will!
If I knew I could swing it, I'd get new heads for my M117 block, research a manual alternative (doing that for my 500SE anyway) and go from there, but I kinda wanna keep that block for something else in the future.
Of course, there's the old small block Chevy cliché which would likely actually fit without much of a fuss, but I feel that's an overdone swap for many bodies (going to be helping a buddy of mine put an LT1 into his Datsun 240Z at some point).
So I've definitely been giving it a lot of thought over the last few years as to I should do motor and trans wise, and right now this current plan makes the most sense to allow me to get the car moving (especially after four years of being in my ownership!). I won't bother with a turbo until I either determine the B6ZE is a good fit or feel something else needs to be stuffed in there.
I'm in the middle of prepping my other home in Florida to be put on the market to be sold, so that's currently eating up my time. I don't expect to continue working on this vehicle until April with everything going on at the moment.
Happy to see there's lots of interest and positive feedback! Can't wait to continue sharing the progress as I begin to make some. As far as I know, it'll be the only W136 in existence with a non-original motor (MB or not). I've attempted to look online before and I'd seen custom body work, but they still maintained the factory drivetrain.
|
| |
'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
|
brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,108
|
|
|
|
|
Also the slk was available in all regular engines with a stick. Just not the amg versions. 230k and 320. The "other" Mercedes source is the Chrysler crossfire. The gearbox was also shared with some 2wd and 4wd jeeps. I think its a nsg370?
There is one one eBay in Texas right now for $425
|
| |
Last Edit: Mar 26, 2016 0:38:35 GMT by brc76
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Also the slk was available in all regular engines with a stick. Just not the amg versions. 230k and 320. The "other" Mercedes source is the Chrysler crossfire. The gearbox was also shared with some 2wd and 4wd jeeps. I think its a nsg370? There is one one eBay in Texas right now for $425 R170 SLKs would all be the Supercharged I4 with the manual in the SLK230 Kompressor that we got here in the US. The SLK320 is going to be the larger V6 (M112, I believe) which I know we didn't get in the States with a manual, even if it did, the bolt pattern is different. From what I know the M111 (the supercharged I4) apparently shares the same bolt pattern for transmissions as the M102/103, as a friend of mine has mated a 6-speed from one to his M102.983 (16V motor). The Crossfire used the M112 V6, and as previously mentioned, that bolt pattern is NOT shared with the M103/102/111, so the NSG370 wouldn't work for me. But I believe it would work on my M272 if I wanted to manual swap my W211 E350 since that motor was developed from the M112. |
| |
'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
|
brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,108
|
|
Mar 26, 2016 11:59:15 GMT
|
|
by the way, I don't mean to come across like I think the miata engine idea is a bad one, exp as it's free!
plus the slk320 was available with the 6 speed here in the states, and also the c240,slk350,c300,slk280,
Plus I have a m129 with a 4 speed in my garage.....
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2016 15:09:20 GMT
|
|
Oh, no, I didn't take it like that! After four years I just want to get it moving, so I can pretty up the body, interior, etc. It will certainly beat the original 1.8L I4 that was in there that made around 53HP, hah!
Those are all going to be V6s! I have to admit, if I was planning on keeping my W211 E350, I'd probably source a pedal cluster from overseas and do a manual swap on it as well, but it's going to be traded in on a G-Wagon, so no point wasting time on it!
That M129 is going to be a modified M180 which was the original motor used in the W187 220 I posted above! Is that from a W108/111, or a Pagoda?
|
| |
'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
|
brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,108
|
|
Mar 26, 2016 15:28:40 GMT
|
|
Ex w108. It was one reason I mention it, it's I think bolt in.
The 280 and early 320 from the slk " should " be straights?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
