taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Do not call a scrap yard - that car is an absolute gem.
Sometimes you just need to walk away from a car and sleep on it - most of the time your brain keeps working on things and the answer pops into place all by itself. But we've all been in that place where you just can't see the way forward.
I had a meeting Wednesday evening that has been cancelled. If you want a second pair of eyes to look over it I could pop down about 7pm (ish) and go through the timing set up from scratch.
Be careful cranking an engine if the timing isn't spot on as if it is an interference engine you can get valve to piston contact. (I don't usually work on VWs - but someone on here will know if it's interference or not.)
Have you checked fuel is getting through - after a lay up it is very common for fuel systems to airlock. I had to manually prime a system the other day because no matter how much you cranked it over it wasn't having it. After priming it first first time.
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Something is not aligned correctly. you need to be systematic and ensure the mechanical alignment is correct. Do the ignition timing last as it is the easiest to set.
Oh and accept offers of help you will get there.
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Something is not aligned correctly. you need to be systematic and ensure the mechanical alignment is correct. Do the ignition timing last as it is the easiest to set. Oh and accept offers of help you will get there. Just spent another 2 hours after having something to eat and a beer, checking and double checking all timing. I've set all the timing from scratch before and got it going so feel like I should know what I'm doing, but still nothing  Do not call a scrap yard - that car is an absolute gem. Sometimes you just need to walk away from a car and sleep on it - most of the time your brain keeps working on things and the answer pops into place all by itself. But we've all been in that place where you just can't see the way forward. I had a meeting Wednesday evening that has been cancelled. If you want a second pair of eyes to look over it I could pop down about 7pm (ish) and go through the timing set up from scratch. Be careful cranking an engine if the timing isn't spot on as if it is an interference engine you can get valve to piston contact. (I don't usually work on VWs - but someone on here will know if it's interference or not.) Have you checked fuel is getting through - after a lay up it is very common for fuel systems to airlock. I had to manually prime a system the other day because no matter how much you cranked it over it wasn't having it. After priming it first first time. I literally can't think of anything else I can do. Timing is right but still no action Fuel is getting through even on hand cranking, which I'm doing before each change to make sure there's no valve/pistons meeting each other that shouldn't. Although I think it's a non-interference engine anyway. If you could pop over, that would be absolutely, entirely amazing. But I really don't want you to feel like you have an obligation to. If you've got other things to do then please don't feel like you need to! Ugh this is just getting me rather annoyed |
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Last Edit: Jul 5, 2016 22:25:19 GMT by arsonist
1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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OK - I'll pop over your way about 7 this evening.
If you can put the battery on charge to make sure it's up to scratch it would be good.
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jpr1977
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 658
Club RR Member Number: 18
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What have you left the firing order as? It should be 1 - 3 - 4 - 2.
From experience these engines can be a pain to get to fire right if the timing has been even slightly misaligned.
Just go through it clearly and methodically and double check everything as per the above comments.
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+1 firing order is 1-3-4-2 What crank timing mark are you using? don't use the one on the crank pulley as the outer can move on the rubber insert. Make sure you use the one on the flywheel. There may be more than one (IIRC one is for static timing one is for ignition timing using a strobe). Have a look here, some good guys on there that know these old engines inside out: www.clubgti.com/forumdisplay.php?135-8-valveYou might find that setting the tension on the belt has pulled the crank out of line, so you can try setting the crank a tooth advanced so that when you do the tensioner up it pulls it all into line. These are a massive pain to time up though due to the dizzy being driven off that intermediate shaft! The later 16v engines are so much easier as the dizzy is driven off the inlet cam. Stick at it I'm sure you'll figure it out! |
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OK - I'll pop over your way about 7 this evening. If you can put the battery on charge to make sure it's up to scratch it would be good. Thank you so much! I'll pop home at lunch and get it on the trickle charger. I reset the timing to 1342, took rocker cover off to make sure cam is tdc, did the screwdriver in cylinder 1 to make sure crank is tdc, checked flywheel is tdc, reset dizzy to tdc firing at #1, tensioned belt correctly, still zilch! Confused!! |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Are you getting a spark at all? I had a similar thing years ago after servicing my old Passat, turns out the leads were shot and disturbing them had broken the conductor in the king lead.
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Are you getting a spark at all? I had a similar thing years ago after servicing my old Passat, turns out the leads were shot and disturbing them had broken the conductor in the king lead. I tested number 1 yesterday and got a faint spark. The ht and sparks are all brand new though and only used very lightly running the engine on idle. |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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From the saga that brought you titles such as 'Getting very tempted to call a bloody scrap yard', and 'To be honest this is getting far beyond what I think I'm capable of', I bring you the next instalment!  I'd just like to quickly thank taurus for saving my bacon. He popped over and had a check, and together we worked out that my camshaft was 180 out. There were 2 marks on the pulley, one on the front and one on the back. From what I can remember I'd always used the front one, didn't even know there was one on the back. He found it, we realigned 180 degrees, and vroom, fired first turn. It was music to my ears! So, thank you, very much appreciated  If you even need a bod for anything, just ask and I'll do my best to help! Also filled up the brake fluid to let it sit overnight ready for a full bleed tomorrow, and as I was putting all my belt/rocker/filter covers back on I noticed a puddle getting larger by my 'fixed' brake caliper...  Drip drip drip drip... curse word! So the seals I took ages to source and fit weren't working I wonder why... Took caliper off, drained the system again (what a waste ) pulled the pistons, and oh...what's that?...  An absolutely FUBAR'd brand new seal! Leaking like a sieve! Not entirely sure why, but quite possibly either the wrong seal or it wasn't aligned properly when I put the piston back on. Found the best of the old seals (actually looks in good condition!), cleaned it up and inserted. Filled the piston with brake fluid and...no leak! Even screwed it into the brake hose and compressed both pistons - pistons retracted under quite a lot of pressure, but no leaking. Hopefully I've sorted it! Only a full bleed and test tomorrow will tell. Thanks again taurus All being well, tomorrow will be full bleed, and maybe...maybeeee....maaaybeeeeeeee a cheeky (residential estate) drive!!!!!!!! Although I won't get my hopes up quite yet..... |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Jul 10, 2016 22:59:57 GMT
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Drip...drip...drip...curse word... So just as I think I'm finally getting there, this happens...  Took the car off the jacks and got the wheels back on, wanted to test the brakes to make sure the car had stopping power, at least along my driveway. Engine on, several seconds of decent engine idle, then God aweful screeching, burning rubber and white smoke. Engine off. Check the engine bay, interesting brown gunge everywhere and water dripping on the floor. Oh curse word, head gasket failure? NOOOOOO!!!!!!! But actually, hopefully no! I happened to touch the fan belt, which was CRAZY hot along with the crank pulley, after just a few seconds of running. Also lots of little bits of rubber everywhere. I couldn't see where the constant drip was coming from, so pulled the water pump pulley, which I also noticed was rather wobbly. Seems like the water is exclusively coming from there, and is dripping through a clear light blue, so no oil leak. Also no usual signs of mayo in the dipstick or oil valve area. Very drippy!  Also going back and thinking about it, the engine did used to get really hot on idle, up to the red zone, and the fan kept kicking in. I'm really hoping this is just water pump failure. So anybody in the know; is this a simple job? It looks like the pump literally just bolts onto the 'stat housing and engine block, so all I need to do is take the timing cover off, remove alternator, and unbolt the impeller housing? www.bestpartstore.co.uk/2286629#Does this link look like the part I need? Haynes says impeller, housing and bearing are serviced as one part, so I assume the above is the housing containing the impeller, a spare gasket plus bearings? What a waste of 10 litres of fresh coolant too! EDIT; The day wasn't a total waste. I picked up this fine machine, Mazda3 TS, 11 years old but only 44k on the clock, full service history, full service every MOT, never failed or had any non-consumable advisories, great nick, I'm the 2nd owner. Seriously fun to drive as I'm only used to a 59HBP Mk3 fiesta! Also means the world's crustiest Mk3 fiesta is up for sale if anybody wants a challenge...  |
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Last Edit: Jul 10, 2016 23:11:39 GMT by arsonist
1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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rickygolf83
Scotland
Mk2 Golf 8v & 16v, VR6, Nova Antibes, Mk4 1.8t & mk4 Gt Tdi 130
Posts: 560 
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Nightmare man, balls to you for keeping with it.
It will definitely be worth it in the end, and as you have another car, there is no urgency to get it ready!
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I'd say it was the waterpump, from my experience of them they usually have a hole in the casing somewhere which allows water to flow out of the waterpump giving a clear sign when the seal has gone, though that's for a different car I would expect if yours is exceedingly wobbly its the bearing that's the problem.  |
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Blimey - you are having fun with it! Changing over the pump ought to be straightforward. If the aux belt and crank pulley were hot, and bits of rubber, I'll bet those came off the belt, so get a new belt as well. A wobbly pump is pretty sure to be a shot bearing, and the water looks to be coming from the pump in that photo.
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Jul 11, 2016 13:05:55 GMT
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As annoying as it is with things breaking just as I'm ready to drive, I guess it means I catch them before any real damage is done. Also peace of mind knowing new parts should, in theory, give me several years of use.
Managed to pop to eurocarparts at lunch and picked up a new pump and v belt - technically for a Mk1 1.6 golf, but I'd be very surprised if if didn't fit! I'll let you all know in about 6 hours!
If it does work, literally just reverse gear to sort out and we're good to go.
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Jul 11, 2016 17:29:50 GMT
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Must be really frustrating with seemingly problem after problem, but as you point out should be less wrong when you are finally on the road.
I've had 2 of these estates in the past and loved them. I had a '78 poo brown LS and a last of the line '81 green LX which was based on the GLS and had the twin choke 85bhp engine. Being a special edition it also had factory fit tilt & slide sunroof. I thought it was the bees knees!
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Jul 12, 2016 13:53:40 GMT
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I'd say it was the waterpump, from my experience of them they usually have a hole in the casing somewhere which allows water to flow out of the waterpump giving a clear sign when the seal has gone, though that's for a different car I would expect if yours is exceedingly wobbly its the bearing that's the problem. Spot on - there's a hole at the bottom of the impeller housing which is full of nasty gunk. Must have had a slow leak for a while but with no obvious signs. Must be really frustrating with seemingly problem after problem, but as you point out should be less wrong when you are finally on the road. I've had 2 of these estates in the past and loved them. I had a '78 poo brown LS and a last of the line '81 green LX which was based on the GLS and had the twin choke 85bhp engine. Being a special edition it also had factory fit tilt & slide sunroof. I thought it was the bees knees! It's life I suppose. Plus it's making me learn more than I'd first expected! Any pictures of the '81? It sounds lovely, especially with the sunroof! I have images for all the below, but am at work so don't have time to post them. Plus they're not very interesting. Text is it... So I managed to pull the whole pump and housing after removing the belt covers and alternator, pretty gunky but otherwise in tact. The existing impeller is totally fubard, only 3 of the existing blades still exist. The replacement from Eurocarparts is a perfect fit with the existing housing. However, the pulley attachment is totally wrong as none of the bolts line up, so it cannot be used. Just ordered another pump online, twice the price but hopefully from what I can see and part numbers match up. Always skeptical with ordering new parts to match a 40+ year old part though. We shall see! On another note, brakes are now 100% finished, down to a full bleed in sequence using over 3 liters of fluid - draining pure and clean with no bubbles, and the pedal gives some lovely resistance now. I *also* may have fixed the gear linkage while I was under the car pulling the old exhaust. Rattled it around and think I felt it engage and hold in reverse, whereas before it used to engage and slip straight out to first. Won't be able to tell until the engine is back running though. New part arriving between now and Friday but might not have time to fit until Sunday. Fingers crossed it's here soon. That's all for now! |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Jul 12, 2016 17:54:38 GMT
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I'll dig a couple of pictures out if you like, also have an original brochure I could scan, if you don't mind it cogging up your thread?!
Matt
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Jul 12, 2016 22:12:21 GMT
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I'll dig a couple of pictures out if you like, also have an original brochure I could scan, if you don't mind it cogging up your thread?! Matt One person's clog is another's Choo (there's a footwear reference in there somewhere...). Scan away, I'd be very interested to see them! |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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Jul 15, 2016 22:17:52 GMT
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Finally some progress! So back to my water pump issue, best explained with images. So by now the pump is spurting brown water everywhere from the pulley bolt housing, so needs to come off. I also discovered why the engine (the few times it's run) seemed to overheat all the time...  Not good! Completely sheered blades, only half of them left! Deffo needs replacing! The actual pump housing was still ok once cleaned up, so was a case of getting a new pump and bolting on to the old housing. This is before I scrapped the old gasket off and tested the stat while in the housing (boiling/cold water to test if the stat opens. All works well!)  Did a quick google and found the Mk1 golfs generally used the same pump. Great, Eurocarparts have one in stock!  Perfect match!...Oh...  Bolt unit doesn't even nearly align, and the whole thing is a sealed unit. Bums! Back to google and found a more expensive one, pic seemed to show a larger bolt/pulley unit. New unit arrived a few days, the moment of truth!  Winner! All a perfect fit, plus new gasket and engine block seal. Bolted it all in along with a dab of engine silicone sealant, alternator back on, pulleys back on, new serpentine belt on and filled the system with water. Engine on, no leaks, screaming rubber or white smoke! I also learnt the importance of putting fuel in the car to keep it running. Took me a good 10 mins to figure out none was drawing through even though the fuel gauge was showing a splash left - one to remember for once she's running! Quick trip to grab some fuel, then I managed to get some important jobs done. Tyres all on with VW centre caps and lug nut covers on. Dynamic timing done with a strobe light Timing belt covers and rocker covers back on (allen key bolts are such a pig! Battery terminals bolted back on. Engine run for 20 mins to check for heat/pressure leaks and to test the new pump. The temp gauge hovers at about 2/3 towards hot, with the lower rad pipes getting hot after about 10 mins (meaning 'stat opened), and rad fan switching on and off every few minutes. Temperature remaining stable, engine purring like a cat, no obvious drips or jets of coolant anywhere (slight white smoke from rocker cover, needs a new gasket but this is a minor job). I think that's the engine done and dusted!  With the engine properly tested, it was time to have a drive down my driveway to test the brakes. Both brake lights come on, and there is no spongyness to the pedal at all (very stiff actually!) The car stops *fairly* abruptly, i.e. very obvious the brakes have been applied, but there's no slamming to a halt. Maybe I'm just used to 4x disc brakes on a modern car now? How rapidly should I be stopping? I think the gears are the last cause for concern now. I've figured out that engaging reverse (pushing down, forward and left) actually puts you in 1st (car pulls very well and clutch feels very responsive), while 1st puts you in 3rd (hence really struggling to pull away the first time!). Managed to get into 2nd (straight down from 1st/reverse) without any issue at a few mph. I can't be sure, but it doesn't feel like 3rd and 4th really engage. Obviously I can't test these at speeds my drive will allow. I'm not too sure on what to do now - I really think if I can sort the gear (and nothing else breaks) then we're legitimately at MOT time. Just curse word all knowledge on how to sort the gears! Took a few evening snaps too to show the refurbed wheels and general look now. She's a lovely looking girl if I do say so myself.       Thanks for reading, and if anybody has any gear related help, please do let me know! Cheers. |
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS
1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic
1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i
2005 Mazda 3 TS
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If you even need a bod for anything, just ask and I'll do my best to help!
