Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,880
Club RR Member Number: 39
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You probably already have all this stuff but in case not - here is a link to the FIA homologation papers for the Tiger historicdb.fia.com/car/chrysler-hillman-avenger-tigerSunbeam lotus is probably also worth a look-up for you -ETA then again all the Avenger and Sunbeams may be of interest - use the "load More" button
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Last Edit: Mar 3, 2017 20:12:54 GMT by Darkspeed
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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that is a trick of the camera isn't it? the braided brake lines don't really sit on the axle in the exact place the bump stop meets do they?
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Yes its a way of providing an axle lock during hard jumping to ensure the car is almost undrivable. :-)
In reality its not in its correct place......
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You probably already have all this stuff but in case not - here is a link to the FIA homologation papers for the Tiger historicdb.fia.com/car/chrysler-hillman-avenger-tigerSunbeam lotus is probably also worth a look-up for you -ETA then again all the Avenger and Sunbeams may be of interest - use the "load More" button Interestingly i have PDF copies of most of the Homologation papers except the Tiger! Its certainly interesting from a history point of view and how little was actually modified to make the rally cars.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,880
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Interesting thinking about Sprung to non-sprung weight distribution. The total weight distribution dent look so bad until you do it solely for sprung weight..... And when you apply Newtons third law it becomes clear how important it is for wheel control that the unsprung mass is a low as possible. At present any vertical acceleration of a front wheel is resisted by a proportionally larger mass. At the rear however, the ratio between the masses is far less and any vertical accelerations of the rear axle will be harder for the rear of the car to resist.
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Finally i got the handbrake system in and adjusted so that it works! Here the old Sunbeam handbrake cable mounts from an old axle are now mounted onto some angle and the cables fitted. The centre hole has been sleeved down with a suitable piece of pipe to stop it all flapping about to much. Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr
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Last Edit: Apr 24, 2017 17:55:00 GMT by nevtiger
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Mar 28, 2017 16:24:51 GMT
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Whilst waiting for the engine to put its self back together i decided to add some lightness to the engine mounts i also modified to 'open' them up a bit. Before when the engine part of the mount was in the body part the engine would not lift straight out as the body part mount was to narrow at the top. This meant unbolting the mounts from the engine. SO i cut them apart and re-welded at a much better angle to clear them selves. Doesn't make a lot of sense that but would do if you were stood in the garage and i showed you. Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr You may remember that Welsh Dave borrowed my spare engine and broke it. Well he has unbroken it now. I promised not to go on about the fact it has taken him a year so i won't. Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr This means i might get to France yet......
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Last Edit: Apr 24, 2017 17:55:51 GMT by nevtiger
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Apr 17, 2017 17:19:09 GMT
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Building the engine back up to fit. Its amazing how many things are different from a standard engine because its used in my car and injected! TTV super light flywheel and small clutch assembly: Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr
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Last Edit: Apr 24, 2017 17:56:14 GMT by nevtiger
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In the quest to get the car ready for France a lot of progress followed by unprogress has been happening: The engine finally in the front of the car. Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr And after a bit of a steady morning attaching things we end up with this: Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr But that was only after i noticed coolant leaking from the head/block interface. Seems the head bolts were not fully torqued down, Welsh Dave must of forgotten to do the second go round..... But it runs and makes the right noises. Then the bloody thermostat stuck closed. Great. I use Evens Coolant and i can re-use it but its a ball ache dropping it out ready to change the thermostat. Then to improve my mood i drove the car down the garden and the brakes have turned super soft. Mood now worsening. Car back in garage and try and decide what the issue is. I couldn't face it so washed and polished the car instead: Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr When i finally jacked the back up and took the wheels off i found that brake fluid was leaking from the brake union to caliper interface: Here shown with no pipe but an artistically posed drop of fluid Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr I checked the copper washers and to be frank they were a bit mank so i fettled them back with 1200 grit paper. Before Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr After Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr Put both sides back together, bled it through and still leaking! Ok, take it all apart and have a look again and i noticed the the mating surface on the caliper is dimpled. Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr SO gave it a good seeing to in situ on both sides with 1200 grit and put it all back together and guess what? Yep still leaking. Right, callipers off of the car and out with the smoothest file i have and really go to town on these things. Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr It was quite an uneven surface but sorted now. I also changed the washers for 'better' ones that are sandwich types. Both callipers done, cleaned and re-fitted. Complete bleed again of the rear circuit - bias box with twin master cylinders - and at last no leaking (so far). And a totally curse word pedal. It goes to nearly the floor and feels spongy. Re-bleed brakes again, i use a pressure bleed thing. And its still curse word. When i first did the rear brake conversion it was a good firm pedal but whilst sitting there something has given up the ghost. New 0.75" Girling master cylinder is on its way, i am not looking forward to changing it at all!!!!!! As is 2 brand new 88 degree thermostats. And if that wasn't enough the SPA rev counter has gone AWOL and i still need to corner weight the car, clean the inside, change the front seat blah blah blah. And an enormous amount of work has broken out with my employer thus getting in the way of real life.
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Last Edit: Apr 24, 2017 17:56:34 GMT by nevtiger
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I have just read my post and thought how easy it is to write down compared to actually doing the work..........
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Apr 24, 2017 17:33:00 GMT
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After removing the seat, bending over backwards and getting my head under the dash i still couldn't see the balance bar connection! So out with the Aldi or Lidels special Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr It sort of helped Finally got the master cylinder out Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr Interestingly when i had drained the brakes down i put my foot on the brake and it felt exactly the same - so maybe this master cylinder was not doing much??
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Last Edit: Apr 24, 2017 17:57:34 GMT by nevtiger
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Apr 24, 2017 17:34:39 GMT
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what a ball ache did you try the "squash slave cylinders back into their bores so there is minimal space left for air pockets" type bleeding attempt ?
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Apr 24, 2017 17:35:51 GMT
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scratch that, you just updated !
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Apr 24, 2017 17:50:10 GMT
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Ok, I shall get the track dimensions when the latest outbreak of work has subsided and i can get to the garage. The springs used in the OEM position were 180 or 200 rate depending, The rear leverage ratio for standard position springs is 1.24. I'm not sure about rising rate though. The 180 at that leverage = wheel rate of 117 The 200 at that leverage = wheel rate of 130 For the 350 fronts the spring rate really needs to be at around 400. However you are using a very high front rate With 250lb fronts - the rears at 280lb would be a good start. Rising rate If the rear trailing arm was horizontal and the spring was angled back toward the chassis pivot(which it seemed to be as standard) at 15 degrees the spring rate seen by the wheel would be a factor of the leverage ratio and that lean angle. For 15 degrees the spring rate is reduced by around 7% - When the spring is compressed that lean angle is reduced so that when at 90 degrees to the training arm (0 degree lean) the rate is increased by that lost 7%. The trailing arm moves in an arc from the chassi pivot. The spring upper and lower locations are fixed. For good design you would ensure that at maximum travel in bump the spring angle is is always approaching that 90 degree's to the trailing arm angle. For future development my focus would be on getting that rear roll centre under control - lower and fixed - with those datums you can move forward Your axle is already 4 linked - all you need to do is remove the top triangulation, which give you the high and dynamic roll centre, by making the arms parallel to the lower arms, and then add some structure to mount a Watts etc. I note on the rally cars they braced the shocker towers - I expect yours would have cracked eventually with the full loads into that area. What I cant find on the rally cars is what the did with the axle location - or just lived with the high roll centre I am not convinced by this a solution - but it does indicate the problem to be sorted for for the upper arm location. Also remember that you will have falling rate on the damping to deal with due to the angle of inclination of those. Darkspeed I spoke to the guy who did this car - its a new build. The truth is he added the panhard rod to see what would happen as he doesn't like the movement on rubber bushes! The axle still has full unrestricted movement. I wonder where the RCH is now? Does it follow the Panhard Rod or the original links???
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,880
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Apr 24, 2017 18:29:07 GMT
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Darkspeed I spoke to the guy who did this car - its a new build. The truth is he added the panhard rod to see what would happen as he doesn't like the movement on rubber bushes! The axle still has full unrestricted movement. I wonder where the RCH is now? Does it follow the Panhard Rod or the original links??? Tough one to call, if he has put nice soft squashy bushes in the upper arms that allow compliance through the full arc described by the Panhard and solid (looks like just one bush in the Panhard)then the Panhard should have all the control. However, if there are uncompliant joints in the arms then they could control roll or it could transition between the two with the roll centre moving about between the two systems. I guess the way to tell would be removal of one of the upper arms.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:34:25 GMT
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have you got any "high points" in any of the brake pipes holding air? I used to have to hang a weight on the rear flexi on my old suzuki samurai to hold it downwards otherwise it was a proper bar-steward to bleed through.
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:56:18 GMT
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have you got any "high points" in any of the brake pipes holding air? I used to have to hang a weight on the rear flexi on my old suzuki samurai to hold it downwards otherwise it was a proper bar-steward to bleed through. The only things that have changed are the callipers. The previous drum set up used the same lines and bled with out any issues. So i am working on the assumption that as nothing has changed with the lines that should not be the problem.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,880
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Apr 24, 2017 21:35:27 GMT
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Are the bleed nipples positioned to remove every last bit of air from the piston or do you bleed the calipers off the disc?
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Apr 24, 2017 21:51:30 GMT
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with the copper washers , they need annealing , they gone work hard that's why you struggled , and for getting the air out quite often on M/cycles holding the lever under pressure overnight then bleeding off works, so I see no reason similar should not work here.
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retired with too many projects!
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Apr 26, 2017 20:14:41 GMT
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dead leg the pedal down overnight?
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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