v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,782
|
|
Feb 20, 2017 17:07:57 GMT
|
|
The most beautifully coloured smoke is probably from the zinc used when galvanising.......... its exceptionally toxic!!!!
|
| |
Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style.
Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 20, 2017 17:16:17 GMT
|
|
Ah, i didn't think it was going to be good for me.
|
| |
|
|
Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,755
Club RR Member Number: 39
|
|
Feb 20, 2017 17:40:09 GMT
|
|
I would make sure that the rear axle is restrained in droop so that the springs stay retained. With springs that stiff you have very little preload/static compression. As the shocker droop is unlikley to contain the spring it is better to have something. The height aduster may keep the spring from dropping out fully but putting the check straps back one will be a good idea until you know what the car is doing. If you clipped a club and lifted the car onto two wheels, coming down onto one rear spring will be a brown race suit moment.
On that white Avenger racer it looks like they dropped a wire retainer through the centre of the spring - could be mistaken.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 20, 2017 18:46:04 GMT
|
|
Way ahead of you......
If you look at the photo of the chassis mount you can see 4 riv nuts. These were the axle strap mounts when the set up was originally done :-)
All i have to do is find the straps..........
|
| |
Last Edit: Feb 20, 2017 18:46:21 GMT by nevtiger
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 20, 2017 23:45:24 GMT
|
Ah, i didn't think it was going to be good for me. Yeah "Galv Flu" is not nice Ive had it twice . The Zinc boils,vapourises and then silidifies as powder.. Its like flu,meigraine and the thunder curse word all at once avoid them white whisps like the plaque... |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2017 14:07:25 GMT
|
Ignoring noxious gases for a while...... I fired up the Lap Top and the SusProg3D i had been playing with to sort the front suspension 3 or so years ago. I looked at the front and rear Roll Centre Heights At static ride height: Front is 146.91mm = 5.78" Rear is 383.07mm = 15.08" due to link arrangement this sits just above the diff and slightly behind. I think that is still fairly steep roll axis but a whole heap better than when the front RCH was on the floor. Interestingly this is what the front RCH does in roll, as the car leans over the RCH drops a bit but migrates over. With a Mac Strut front the lower the RCH is the more it changes laterally - i don't know if that is a bad thing though!  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr The rear RCH stays attached to to the top of the diff housing in roll. It moves up and down with bump but that is not such an issue for me a think. This is the model of the front end as it is geometry wise but without the new ARB arrangement incorporated. Or springs. It was done to eliminate bump steer and keep the RCH up from where it was previously and it did make a difference to how the car handled. I must get on and get all the figures in to the programme as per the car now. The next big question is: Which set up to use on the rear? 1. Watts chassis mounted 2. Mumford Link Pros and Cons - feel free to discuss :-) |
| |
Last Edit: Feb 21, 2017 14:07:53 GMT by nevtiger
|
|
Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,755
Club RR Member Number: 39
|
|
Feb 22, 2017 11:12:15 GMT
|
|
Do you have the unsprung weights?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2017 11:43:30 GMT
|
|
No - nothing more than a guess I'm afraid.
I estimated each front corner as 25kg and the rear as 60kg total.
I have yet to plonk a strut assembly on my scales.
|
| |
|
|
Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,755
Club RR Member Number: 39
|
|
Feb 22, 2017 12:05:34 GMT
|
No - nothing more than a guess I'm afraid. I estimated each front corner as 25kg and the rear as 60kg total. I have yet to plonk a strut assembly on my scales. Opportunity at the rear whilst messing about with the springs and it will be interesting to have an accurate figure on a live axle assemble for the records. I think 60kg sounds a bit light: Axle Discs Calipers Shocks and reserv's Arms Prop Oils Cables Lines Wheels Tyres Trailing arms Springs LSD Air  Do you compete in the same class as Andy Russell in his G15? - Taken the trip to Loton in recent years? |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2017 12:11:51 GMT
|
|
I guessed 60kgs as i can lift an axle out on my own. :-)
True its missing its wheels.....
Modified Production is the category, but i have not ventured as far north as Loton, the trailer doesn't like going beyond Abingdon.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,755
Club RR Member Number: 39
|
|
Feb 22, 2017 13:03:40 GMT
|
|
Andy also runs in Modified Production but the up to 1400 class with the G15.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2017 14:02:26 GMT
|
Andy also runs in Modified Production but the up to 1400 class with the G15. I end up in either upto 1800 or upto 2000 depending on the organising club. Gets difficult to keep up with lightweight 2.0l Corsa's |
| |
|
|
Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,755
Club RR Member Number: 39
|
|
Feb 26, 2017 20:28:14 GMT
|
....Pros and Cons - feel free to discuss  .... If it's just me and thee we may as well go down the pub  |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I decided that i really did actually need to weigh the back axle rather than guessing. With the other rear caliper off to be re-done again i finished off the bottom arms, bolted the dampers back up and dragged out the scales I put the race tyres and wheels on so as to get the real figure  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr I cocked up the first time as i didn't remember t drop the axle far enough down to let the springs become free! Any way second attempt and this is the weight:  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr 104kg. I estimated 60kg for the bare axle..... which isn't far off at all. Each wheel and tyre is a Compomotive CXR 8" with a Dunlop CR322 X22 tarmac tyre  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr Whilst i was at it i thought i would weigh a front set up. I have plenty of spares so took a strut complete along with bottom arm and brake reaction arm to get this without a wheel and tyre  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr Actual weights! No guessing here......... Back to the future; I have been thinking about the back and although i can see the benefit of the Mumford link over a conventional Watts for packaging in respect of RCH i am still unable to get to grips with the difference between having the Roll Centre tied to the axle or to the body? A body mounted Watts ties the Roll Centre to the body which think is a better solution for predictable control but i am not sure if the Mumford does?? I have found that the suspension programme i have can calculate the Mumford links with a few dimensions inputed so i ought to have a go at that as i already have a 4 link and Panhard rod model based on my car i did a few years ago. Then i moved to the hand brake. Early Avengers use a cable from the lever back to the axle where upon it moves a couple of rods to activate the handbrake. Later Avengers and Sunbeams use a yoke to two cables that act directly onto the drums. The Sunbeam set up can be used with the C180 set up with no modification. I have a Sunbeam handbrake lever from FDH but only one and want to keep it for FDH so put the two levers together to see wha the differences are:  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr At first it just looks like the hole for the handbrake cable/rod is in different places (Ignoring the cable stop on the Avenger one) but actually the mounting legs are longer as well. This makes the hand brake lever stand higher so that the rod yoke angles down towards the the back of the car otherwise it gets jammed on the tunnel roof. Easy fix is to make spacers to sit under the feet. Proper solution is to make new feet. Then add some lightness. That will be the next instalment.... |
| |
Last Edit: Apr 24, 2017 17:53:21 GMT by nevtiger
|
|
Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,755
Club RR Member Number: 39
|
|
Feb 27, 2017 11:29:35 GMT
|
|
150kg unsprung for a 950kg racer = 16% unsprung mass
Rear sprung mass = 303
Front sprung mass = 483
Sprung mass distribution F/R 62/38
I ran my calculations on an estimated 800kg total sprung 62% front bias - so you can take all the figures that I produced as not being far off.
As for Watts, Mumford and Panhard etc. I would suggest Panhard as the White Avenger so start with, but keeping an eye on the construction with a view to future modifications and other options. Just need those top arms taken out of the equation - The panhard should easy let the rear RC drop to around 8" and then work on the development from there. One change at a time approach is not without merit.
As well as reducing mass - which pretty well has no drawbacks you need to keep an eye on where the main focus should be in removing or moving it. You should always look to keep the main mass within the wheelbase and try to reduce the CoG height whenever possible. Unfortunately you cannot drop the diff in relation to the axle line so thats fixed but there are always little things that are relatively simple - Alternator small and low on the engine starter motors small and light Radiators as low and as close to the block as poss - air flow requirements noted. You - back and low.
This is a RWD car - you need to get weight to act on those two particular bits of rubber - Every kg you can move from the front nearer to them will result in a traction gain.
Good luck in the new season.
|
| |
|
|
steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,565
|
|
Feb 27, 2017 12:06:10 GMT
|
I went up to Race retro and was going to have a look at any Sunbeams up there but there weren't any there. I did have a look on Retrobeam Motorsports stand and they had some nice stuff on there. It's mainly rally stuff though. www.retrobeam.co.uk/ |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 27, 2017 12:13:07 GMT
|
I went up to Race retro and was going to have a look at any Sunbeams up there but there weren't any there. I did have a look on Retrobeam Motorsports stand and they had some nice stuff on there. It's mainly rally stuff though. www.retrobeam.co.uk/I never got to Race Retro, i was going with some mates but it sort of didn't happen! Retrobeam, i know the guy who runs it as the Avenger/Sunbeam world is fairly compact. Most of the commercialy available stuff is rallying biased and biased towards what the works team did in 1980! There are a few race cars about but again most seem to stick with the 'way its always been done'. As far as i am concerned there is always room for improvement........ |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 27, 2017 15:32:54 GMT
|
|
Just had a long chat with 'a Guy' who races a Sunbeam.
Turns out he uses 4 parallel links and a Panhard Rod rear set up! Panhard set to middle of the diff at ride height.
Fairly classic but more than enough on the non slick shod race car it seems.
Hmmmmm
|
| |
Last Edit: Feb 27, 2017 15:36:24 GMT by nevtiger
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I got the 2nd caliper back from the re-furb company at last. No complaints about their customer service, just slightly annoying that both callipers had to go back!! Fitted, bled and handbrake cable attached  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr I know, i know. At last!! So onto making the bracket for the cable a the body end This is what happens on a Sunbeam:  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr  Untitled by Nevtiger, on Flickr Just some bent flat with a lump of metal with a hole welded to it. The hole is angled towards the centre of the car and upwards so that the inner cable has a straight run to the handbrake yoke. I have some bits to make that, but now The Deacons in Fisherton street is calling....... |
| |
Last Edit: Apr 24, 2017 17:54:13 GMT by nevtiger
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
150kg unsprung for a 950kg racer = 16% unsprung mass Rear sprung mass = 303 Front sprung mass = 483 Sprung mass distribution F/R 62/38 I ran my calculations on an estimated 800kg total sprung 62% front bias - so you can take all the figures that I produced as not being far off. As for Watts, Mumford and Panhard etc. I would suggest Panhard as the White Avenger so start with, but keeping an eye on the construction with a view to future modifications and other options. Just need those top arms taken out of the equation - The panhard should easy let the rear RC drop to around 8" and then work on the development from there. One change at a time approach is not without merit. As well as reducing mass - which pretty well has no drawbacks you need to keep an eye on where the main focus should be in removing or moving it. You should always look to keep the main mass within the wheelbase and try to reduce the CoG height whenever possible. Unfortunately you cannot drop the diff in relation to the axle line so thats fixed but there are always little things that are relatively simple - Alternator small and low on the engine starter motors small and light Radiators as low and as close to the block as poss - air flow requirements noted. You - back and low. This is a RWD car - you need to get weight to act on those two particular bits of rubber - Every kg you can move from the front nearer to them will result in a traction gain. Good luck in the new season. Interesting thinking about Sprung to non-sprung weight distribution. The total weight distribution dent look so bad until you do it solely for sprung weight..... I had a think about do i really want to modify a genuine Tiger? Maybe i don't. Which can only mean one thing............ |
| |
|
|
|
|
....
