The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,449
Club RR Member Number: 48
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1987 Toyota Starlet 1.3 SXLThe Doctor
@thedoctor
Club Retro Rides Member 48
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Jul 17, 2019 20:10:06 GMT
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Mine nearly did that as well, as i found out today Found more non standard holes in the blok when i took it out today.  Quite a lot of broken parts to be found again.  I did enjoy diving into it, finding out what i wrecked with my stupidity...    The broken rocker didn't look to good, as that is a classic sign of piston/valve interference on these. Luckily the head was fine, allthough the broken rocker wasn't from the bent valve, strangely. Replaced all the 3 valves with straight ones from another head, just to be sure. Took a spare engine and started to take it apart to be build into the new powerhouse.  4 weeks till we leave for the Gathering and counting... |
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Last Edit: Jul 17, 2019 20:11:04 GMT by The Doctor
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Jul 17, 2019 22:17:12 GMT
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Piston is a bit second hand...
Anyway, this is a 2E right? Two inlet and one exhaust valve?
I hadn't expected one valve to be quite so tiny. It's hardly bigger than the valve stem. I take it the little one and one big one are inlets and and the other big one is the exhaust?
What an interesting design. I'd love to know the theory behind it.
I had two Corollas years ago. One with an 8 valve 2A and the next (manufactured a year later) with a 12 valve 2E. I remember the 2E as being the more entertaining to drive but the 2A had more low down torque. Not by much though. It was just a little better at dragging the car up hills.
James
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,449
Club RR Member Number: 48
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1987 Toyota Starlet 1.3 SXLThe Doctor
@thedoctor
Club Retro Rides Member 48
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Jul 17, 2019 22:57:17 GMT
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It's a 2E indeed. And also correct on the valve situation. Tiny 2nd intake valve and 2 almost similar intake and exhaust valves. It's a weird thing,just before Toyota went to 16v on all the engines they did the 12v e series (1.0, 1.3 and 1.5). There's a tiny difference in timing between the 2 intake valves as well, not sure if it has different lift. It is longer and sits deeper in the head (and it's the first one to hit the piston,there are marks on all the pistons, guess the trd cam brings them very close together if not touching) It's a peppy engine though. 75hp and 98nm torque as stock, so it must have worked for Toyota. the 1.3 16v which replaced it wasn't much more powerful (and less rev happy!)  Bent intake valve visible here. |
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Clement
Europe
ambitious but rubbish
Posts: 2,095
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Jul 18, 2019 20:01:41 GMT
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I hope this lovely wee revvy engine will be back together soon!
As for valve size wonders, it might be because they were trying to get the mixture to swirl inside the combustion chamber. At least I know of another example of the same situation where it was indeed the case (Maserati twin-turbo 18-valve V6, same-ish era as well).
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,449
Club RR Member Number: 48
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1987 Toyota Starlet 1.3 SXLThe Doctor
@thedoctor
Club Retro Rides Member 48
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Jul 18, 2019 20:08:54 GMT
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Didn't know maserati did a triple valve setup as well! I saw a proton with a 3 valve setup, but not much more.
I thought most manufacturers weren't daft enough to use 3 valves and switched to 4 or stayed at 2.
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Jul 18, 2019 22:02:06 GMT
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Weren't Proton tied up with Mitsubishi? Mitsi must have made 12 valve engines... As for valve size wonders, it might be because they were trying to get the mixture to swirl inside the combustion chamber. That, I think, is spot on. I also notice it's introducing gas directly into the squish area which must energise the gasses. You'd think? and it's the first one to hit the piston,there are marks on all the pistons, guess the trd cam brings them very close together if not touching) It's a peppy engine though. 75hp and 98nm torque as stock, so it must have worked for Toyota. the 1.3 16v which replaced it wasn't much more powerful (and less rev happy!) It won't deliberately touch the valves on the piston. But are you having a bit of valve bounce? I did, er, notice that, er.... What's the polite phrase? You seem to be occasionally reluctant to change up!  Or maybe the cam belt slipped a tooth when the loose piston hit the valves? Interesting what you say about the 16 valve not revving so well. It's said that the red top 4A GE doesn't rev as well as the earlier blue top. Somebody worked out that the later engine had the ignition retarded at high revs as compared to the blue top. A chap on the MK1 MR2 forum was messing with after market ECUs and programmed in the blue top ignition curve into a red top engine. It goes like a blue top. Point made! And my 3S FE was pretty flat. It's said that a lot of Toyota engines lost some pep at about that time. So the question is, why? Somebody suggested that it happened at about the time unleaded fuel came out in the UK and that Toyota may have backed off the high rev performance as a precaution. Clearly old is best! Which pleases me as I've just had 'one of those birthdays'. Anyway, crack on old chap! James |
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,449
Club RR Member Number: 48
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1987 Toyota Starlet 1.3 SXLThe Doctor
@thedoctor
Club Retro Rides Member 48
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Jul 18, 2019 23:20:19 GMT
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It won't deliberately touch the valves on the piston. But are you having a bit of valve bounce? I did, er, notice that, er.... What's the polite phrase? You seem to be occasionally reluctant to change up! Or maybe the cam belt slipped a tooth when the loose piston hit the valves? Timing was still as I put it when building the engine. Valve bounce maybe? A stock 2E goes to 7500 rpm all day, with the trd cam I installed the matching uprated valve springs and I've been revving it to 8000 sometimes. I only got a bit carried away at the weekender on track and hit 8500 once... That was 1000 mile before the engine failed, not sure if the marks would still be visible then. I know there's very little room, as it's quite hard to time the cam, especially without adjustable cam pulley. It's half a tooth out atm, as that's the only way to get the engine to turn without valves hitting the pistons. Maybe the trd pistons which are listed with the cam also have room for the small intake valve, but I've never seen a picture of them. I think v3.0 (which probably will come  will have extra cutouts for the valve to make it easier,and an adjustable pulley. Interesting what you say about the 16 valve not revving so well. It's said that the red top 4A GE doesn't rev as well as the earlier blue top. Somebody worked out that the later engine had the ignition retarded at high revs as compared to the blue top. A chap on the MK1 MR2 forum was messing with after market ECUs and programmed in the blue top ignition curve into a red top engine. It goes like a blue top. Point made! And my 3S FE was pretty flat. It's said that a lot of Toyota engines lost some pep at about that time. So the question is, why? Somebody suggested that it happened at about the time unleaded fuel came out in the UK and that Toyota may have backed off the high rev performance as a precaution. Clearly old is best! Which pleases me as I've just had 'one of those birthdays'. Anyway, crack on old chap! James Whilest I think the unleaded thing is plausible, Japan switched to unleaded in 1972, would Toyota really make different maps for leaded fuels? I don't know, but it could be... |
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,449
Club RR Member Number: 48
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1987 Toyota Starlet 1.3 SXLThe Doctor
@thedoctor
Club Retro Rides Member 48
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Jul 27, 2019 10:23:14 GMT
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Spent a hot day at the barn yesterday to try and finish the new engine and try to get it back in the car.   Needs some small bits, but its back in and runs! 2,5 weeks to the gathering and counting |
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Jul 27, 2019 21:23:41 GMT
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motor niet gebrukt
yay
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2001 HONDA CT110 (NOT RCV)
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The Doctor
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,449
Club RR Member Number: 48
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1987 Toyota Starlet 1.3 SXLThe Doctor
@thedoctor
Club Retro Rides Member 48
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  It's all back together now, all looks well. Will give the car some small runs around the block the next week to make sure nothing falls off. Fitted smaller tires, rolled the rear arches a bit to try and stop the rubbing. Was rubbing horribly before, now only on really steep speed bumps on the downside. Guess the koni red shocks are getting on a bit. For now I'm happy with it. 2 weeks to the gathering and counting |
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will have extra cutouts for the valve to make it easier,and an adjustable pulley. 