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Oct 30, 2006 18:42:29 GMT
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I admit, I've not really read through all the press surrounding this, but I'm 90% sure it won't affect retros. The whole idea behind this is that you pay based on emissions, yeah? Well, sound data on emissions is only available for cars sold after some point in 2001 when it became a legal obligation for the manufacturers to provide it. It's the same as road tax: post-2001 vehicles are taxed based on emissions; pre-2001 on engine size. Of course, nothing's stopping them saying '5 litre hemi, sir? Certainly, your parking permit will be £120,000', but I haven't seen that been mentioned... It WILL affect pre 2001 stuff. Here's what I posted on the VOC forum about this: More data here: www.richmond.gov.uk/press_off...ts_parking.htmHowever, the interesting bit is regarding cars based on pre C02 tax bands Less than 1549cc = as per Band C 1549cc to 3000cc = as per Band E Greater than 3000cc = as per Band G No mention of 'Historic Vehicles', so I can only assume that they are lumped in as per the engine capacity rather than in a default band (ie C or D). Personally, I think that this entire proposal is extremely misguided as well as being nothing more than daylight robbery. Fair enough to have the road tax bands but to apply these same bands to parking permits is extremely offensive, intrusive & also downright patronising. In addition, the charges for parking permits are supposed to be required purely to administer & patrol the zones, not as a political cash cow  Hopefully the residents of Richmond will vote appropriately at the next council elections.... |
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Oct 30, 2006 22:03:58 GMT
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To be honest I have been expecting this announcement to come when I first heard of the crude oil price dropping. People were complaining of the price of fuel rising to £1 per litre, there was talk of the fuel blockades starting again. Nothing happened. The oil price drops and as people are already used to the £1 per litre price, what better time to bring in an increased fuel duty tax and use the environment as an excuse  The government realise there will be almost no opposition so they can get away with it. I noticed as well in a few radio news stories talk of the charging per mile driven scheme again. My wife and I don't have a lot of choice in the amount of miles we do per year, it averages around 50,000 between the pair of us. We live in the countryside there is one shop about a mile away (owned by Edward and Tubbs) the nearest normal shop is about 10 mile away. We both have to travel about 15 mile to work (opposite directions), there is no public transport system of any kind so there is no real option for us. The percentage of emmisions from cars contributing to global warming is very little but the possibility of taxing motorists and getting away with it makes it a bit of a no brainer as far as the government is concerned |
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Oct 30, 2006 22:21:16 GMT
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We both have to travel about 15 mile to work (opposite directions), there is no public transport system of any kind so there is no real option for us. Snap. I work 12½ miles away and there isnt a train station within 10 miles of my workplace, nor is there any public transport as its in a fairly rural location. I will not add 2-3 hours on my (already long) day cycling as I deem that to be completely unjustifiable, so driving is the only option available. Car sharing is also a no-no as no-one lives anywhere near me, so either party driving to collect the other would be another increase in car usage that would offset the car sharing scheme and render the whole thing totally pointless. Quite simply I have had enough, I will not pay road tax, fuel tax and a charge for every mile I drive. Its one system or the other. If necessary I will break the law, this constant demand on the British taxpayer is disgusting and totally unsustainable at the rate of current increase. I am tired of the British motorist/taxpayer shouldering the responsibility (both moral and financial) of saving the planet single handed. The biggest polluters like China and India sit on their ar*e and do nothing and the West is expected to pay for their contempt. If I am to be taxed, taxed and taxed again just for the privilege of wanting to go to work and pay my way, then where the hell is the incentive for me to continue doing so ? Why not simply sponge off the state ... wait a minute what am I thinking, I'm a law abiding taxpayer. If I left the job thats costing me more and more to travel to, I'd be entitled to nothing from the state. Apologies for my rant ... I'm going to go and shoot something ... or someone. |
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Oct 31, 2006 10:40:18 GMT
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What if the global warming we're currently going through is a natural cycle? Then the government be getting extra tax revenue/discouraging us from using/consuming so much for something that would happen anyway? Someone made a comment about domestic/building emissions. I can assure you that this in the process of being addressed and it hasn't been forgotten about, I have to deal with the barmy ramifications of this on a daily basis and it's a nightmare trying to get new buildings up to standard. Meanwhile we continue to buy and consume things that have no control on them at all - news today about that gigantic ship on its way from China, SS Santa as it's been dubbed, full of curse word of which probably 0.01% is actually essential for daily life. It's all a load of c*ck and thoroughly depressing really. I don't know where you'd start to make an impact on any of it, other than winding the clock back about 3,000 years and living like that forever. Actually, you've hit the nail on the head. I'm currently doing an OU degree, and one of the things that was in last year's work was all about science, knowledge and power relations. Basically speaking, science and politics have been inextricably linked for about the last 300 years (since the formation of the Royal Society). If the topic hasn't been debated and approved by the Royal Society, then it doesn't "count" as science. In addition to this, scientists run their battles (with the help of the media) to get their theory accepted as the "truth". If you don't believe me, look at the different theories that have emerged about the cause of cot deaths, and the ongoing debate regarding a possible link between the MMR vaccine and Autism. Don't forget that it was scientists that said rail travel would be impossible because the human body cannot breathe at speeds of more than 10mph, and Galileo was condemed as a heretic for stating that the world was round! One of the theories about the dinosaurs states that they died out due to global warming, and they didn't drive cars. |
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2006 10:43:10 GMT by moggyman
1953 Minor (Long term project)
PT Cruiser
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Oct 31, 2006 10:53:41 GMT
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Some great points coming up here! All of which take my blood from simmer back to boil, if the government continue to take the pi$$ there will be more silly rules - more jobsworths employed - more rule breakers and illegal cars/fuels etc - more fraud - more need for 'policing' - less moral - further knackered economy - more generally unemployed - less first home owners - more debt - more riots - thus more need for the army  Bit OTT but I believe some of the above will happen. I for one will continue to vote every year, and will be writing to my new MP once I have digested the facts. we all should do this, at least the first bit. Very worrying and sad. And if it is on its way in, i'm getting that V8 used and booking a flight somewhere nice   |
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 it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts |
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Oct 31, 2006 11:10:42 GMT
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I used to work at an Ionospheric Research Centre, the scientists there study the effects of variations in solar activity on the atmosphere of the planet. Since the 1980s we have been experiancing rising levels of solar activity which causes the atmosphere to heat up. Hmmm... Maybe this causes global warming... They certainly thought so, but the science was considered un-PC and nobody takes much notice. In the years since solar activity has been monitored, the activity of the sun can be seen to affect weather here on earth quite directly. During the 1660s, the activity was the lowest recorded and the Thames froze over every year...
In about 1980 or 1981 the scientists were sayig we were heading into another ice age due to global cooling. What ever happened to that?
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Oct 31, 2006 11:57:48 GMT
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One of the theories about the dinosaurs states that they died out due to global warming, and they didn't drive cars. Ah, but can you PROVE that they didnt drive cars? |
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.  |
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Oct 31, 2006 12:36:23 GMT
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The problem is finding scientific facts that are 100% independent. The oil companies, green groups and governments all know the value of scientific results to prop up their cause, and all parties know that releasing conflicting messages muddies the waters and makes it difficult for people like us to make an informed decision on what we think... Here's a lovely 1min bit of oil company propagandaThe government use their scientists as an excuse to tax us. The environmentalists use their scientists to further their agenda. The oil companies use their scientists to keep us buying their product. All parties are selective about which statistics they use. |
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Oct 31, 2006 12:38:45 GMT
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You forgot the media - use whatever stats makes a good headline to sell papers or get a journalism award for themselves.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Oct 31, 2006 12:40:45 GMT
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^ True!
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Oct 31, 2006 13:26:01 GMT
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At the end of the day, the population of this planet cannot remain dependant on fossil fuels forever, & other means of generating energy / electricity etc do need to be found. If the money raised from these spurious taxes was actually going into subsidising affordable, ecological & good quality public transport, then fair enough. However, all this talk of green taxes is purely a smokescreen to hide the real reason (ie huge deficit in govt spending) & also prevent a proper debate about these taxes by branding any opposition as being selfish, irresponsible & narrow minded..... Oh the irony!!!  Also, has anyone else noticed how the announcements & publicity surrounding these car related taxes, are all being pitched as being against the rich / middle classes, when in actual fact they affect everyone, & those on lower incomes are actually most likely to feel the effects? |
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2006 13:26:54 GMT by Paul H
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Oct 31, 2006 13:36:18 GMT
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The problem is finding scientific facts that are 100% independent. The oil companies, green groups and governments all know the value of scientific results to prop up their cause, and all parties know that releasing conflicting messages muddies the waters and makes it difficult for people like us to make an informed decision on what we think... Here's a lovely 1min bit of oil company propagandaThe government use their scientists as an excuse to tax us. The environmentalists use their scientists to further their agenda. The oil companies use their scientists to keep us buying their product. All parties are selective about which statistics they use. Just seen that vid.. WTF?? so is carbon monoxide going to destroy the earth or simply feed lots of trees and make us all happy? |
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES. |
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Oct 31, 2006 15:42:41 GMT
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Also, has anyone else noticed how the announcements & publicity surrounding these car related taxes, are all being pitched as being against the rich / middle classes, when in actual fact they affect everyone, & those on lower incomes are actually most likely to feel the effects? Now you mention it, that may explain why i'm 'on one'. Ever thought of getting into politics Paul? I'd vote for ya. |
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts |
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Oct 31, 2006 21:25:31 GMT
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is anyone here technologically competent? i feel the need for a challenging website (with every RR memeber driving with an advertising window sticker) with hard facts and anti legislation/neutral basis providing some sort of alternative to believing the curse word we're being spoon fed?
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The government realise there will be almost no opposition so they can get away with it.
