Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Aug 28, 2006 20:32:56 GMT
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ok,
MG midget, minor, a40, a30, a35, wolsey 1500, are they all the same axles? same width? i assume that diff ratios vary? what ratio was used on which cars? all the same PCD? and all the same size brakes? i want to put 10" wheels over them?
alot of questions.... incase you hadnt guessed I'm looking for a axle for my reliant kitten project.
a stock reliant axle is 3.23:1, i am looking for about a 3.8:1 as although I'm keeping 10" wheels I'm also going to have a 5th gear (5th gear is an overdrive is it not? 4th is 1:1?)
Nick
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,543
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Aug 28, 2006 20:43:26 GMT
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A30, A35, Midget and I think A40's are all the same width but ratios obviouisly vary as do brakes. Minors are the same but wider and I'm not sure about the Wolseley ones. Best bet for you (and most common I expect) would be a midget one as they have 3.9 gears. I think the wolsely/riley had 3.7's but they're pretty rare and expensive. A35's had 4.55 stock (or even up to 5.something for the commercials!) and I think later minors are 4.2. Midget brake parts will all be common and cheap and A30/35/early A40 don't have hydraulic brakes so you'd want to fit Midget ones to them if you got one anyway. I think later midgets went to a Salisbury type axle(ie gears go in from the back making it different from all the others) but I don't know for sure - Paul H might be the man for that info. Hope some of this helps!  |
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2006 20:43:50 GMT by Seth
Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Aug 28, 2006 20:51:12 GMT
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cool, so a midget 3.9 axle.... anyone got one? and how wide are they? I'm hoping for a few more inchs than the reliant one so i don't have to use spacers....
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Aug 28, 2006 21:01:21 GMT
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Only two types of Spridget axle casing 1) For Frogeyes & early Spridgets - mounting towers for the 1/4 elliptic springs & radius arms 2) Everything after that (normal 1/2 elliptic cart springs) Diffs - 4.2 for early (948 & 1098), changed to 3.9 for 1275s and 1500s, and the very last 1500s had a 3.7 AFAIK, all diffs (inc the Riley1.5 / Woofly 1500) are interchangeable. However, some have the top-up on the diff and others have it on the axle casing, so it is possible to have a diff & axle combo that has no oil top up.... As for the axle width, probably best to ask on the Spridget sections here: www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbsAndy Jennings MG Spares www.mgcars.org.uk/andyjennings/ near Southampton might be able to supply one |
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2006 21:02:01 GMT by Paul H
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,543
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Aug 28, 2006 21:01:28 GMT
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Well, my A35 handbook says the rear track is 3' 8 3/4" (1.14m if you insist   ) and as far as I know this is identical to the spridgets. |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Aug 28, 2006 21:26:56 GMT
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cheers guys, realy useful info. as for mounts, i will need to cut them off and fit the ones i need for my 6 link setup. 1.14m track eh, a kitten is 1.18m! haha. (needs double checking though.) andy jennings wnats £55 for a casing and £85 for a diff.... i only want an old clunker to rebuild my self!! however I'm sure he will be usful for parts, and he might have somthing knocking about on the cheap Tahnks for the help Nick |
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Aug 28, 2006 21:27:09 GMT
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They are also a bit fragile - killed one halfshaft before my engine rebuild, and 2, and a diff, after (not particularly torquey 105bhp). A mate also knackered a shaft/diff with the std 65-odd bhp...
They only use one outer bearing, so halfshaft relly gets some hammer apparently - wide wheels with spacers would make that worse? Tougher halfshafts and double bearing kits are available (as well as disc brake conversions) but are eye-wateringly expensive.
I think a comany makes/made a 3.5 diff?
What about one of the little vans (bedford rascal etc) - narrow enough and a bit tougher? I think one was used in a Frogeye kit car?
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention
'02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think
'03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic)
'09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Aug 28, 2006 21:30:38 GMT
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BTW, casing sounds a bit pricey... unless includes internal (apart from diff), but diff isn't expensive. I ended up paying over £100 for a 3.7 quite a few years ago  |
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention
'02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think
'03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic)
'09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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Aug 28, 2006 22:45:26 GMT
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I've got a Datsun 1200 axle you could use. 114.3pcd though you may be able to re-drill it to 4". The ratio is 3.9:1. I think the track is about 1240mm on them but I can measure the width hub to hub if you want. I may also have a spare Datsun 1000 axle which is a bit narrower.
-Ed
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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I was somewhat surprised a few years ago when I had to replace the diff on one that the Morris Marina axle is in fact a Stanpart item. Standard Vanguard at a guess.
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"Jeremy Clarkson, a man we motor enthusiasts need on our side like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car needs a towing ball and a Sprite Musketeer" My motor |
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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ratdat, how hard are they to drill to 4"?and will the brakes be small enough?
i have heard of people running 100hp through a bmc axle no problem, and wondering what all the fuss is, but at the same time people don't rate them much more over 60hp.
i am planning on running between 100-140hp at the fly wheel, in a car that weighs 500kg, the car doesnt need to be my daily, so the odd wheel bearing now and then is not a problem - unless you think they will only last a realy realy short time? as for half shafts, i can ge tthem at about £200 a pair for uprated ones, so not tooo bad, and should take the grunt.
the problem is in finding a 3.9:1 ratio axle, with other ratios available for experimenting, with 4" pcd and a near as dammit track, and drums that fit under 10" wheels, that are basasically the same as the stock kitten ones!
i think a midget axle will have to be done and tested. see how long bits last! in theory 500kg car and no race clutch should help ease the load on it.
Nick
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Last Edit: Aug 29, 2006 7:11:04 GMT by Mr K
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I know people who've broken a BMC axle with the stock 40 BHP. The Morris Mior axle is defo weaker than the Wolseley one. The diff maybe the same but the halfshafts are narrower. I'd be concerned about the A30 / A35 axles as well as these look equally weedy. Also IIRC the A30 / A35 is 3.75" PCD?
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Last Edit: Aug 29, 2006 8:03:32 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Aug 29, 2006 12:04:05 GMT
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ratdat, how hard are they to drill to 4"?and will the brakes be small enough? I couldn't tell you but I'll have a look and see and get back to you. i have heard of people running 100hp through a bmc axle no problem, and wondering what all the fuss is, but at the same time people don't rate them much more over 60hp. I used to have lots of A35's and saw the demise of numerous halfshafts. I broke on in a bog standard A35 van! If you run a 3.7 diff then it reduces the likelyhood of breaking a half shaft but does put more load on the gearbox. My 1275 powered A40 Farina went through ten gearboxes in two years like this. Those components just aren't up to power or hard driving. |
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Aug 29, 2006 12:08:16 GMT
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I know people who've broken a BMC axle with the stock 40 BHP. The Morris Mior axle is defo weaker than the Wolseley one. The diff maybe the same but the halfshafts are narrower. I'd be concerned about the A30 / A35 axles as well as these look equally weedy. Also IIRC the A30 / A35 is 3.75" PCD? All the diffs interchange but as you say the axle widths vary. The reason the shafts are so weak is they have a very coarse spline on the end. They always shear at the base of the spline. You can sea where the shaft twists before snapping when you look at a broken one. At the end of the day they are 1940's low buck engineering and were designed for engines with pitiful levels of power suck as the MM side valve and 803cc A series. BTW, the A35/A40 PCD is definately 4". |
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,650
Club RR Member Number: 1
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tell me about BMC axlesNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Aug 29, 2006 12:14:47 GMT
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you shoudl be ok with the midget casing and the weight of your car. I have broke 1 but My midget puts out more power than it was designed too so don't worry.
Expect to pay about 50notes upward for the casing, if second hand check the rebound mounts. (you may not need them anyhow) As they tend to rot away leaving a arpature for water to Rot the main half shaft casing, (Happend twice to me), this will then cause them to break or leak.
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,650
Club RR Member Number: 1
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tell me about BMC axlesNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Aug 29, 2006 12:16:37 GMT
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P.S. I have also found that you will find a Midget axle in the overgrown section of most well known Scrap yards, (Rest of the motor probably went years ago).
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Aug 29, 2006 12:48:15 GMT
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so the midget axle is the strongest...
bgt, how much power does your midget have?
thanks for all the advice
Nick
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Aug 29, 2006 13:05:07 GMT
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,650
Club RR Member Number: 1
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tell me about BMC axlesNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Aug 29, 2006 13:06:40 GMT
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Last Dyno run was about 4 Years ago, I have nearly the same Spec as Filmidget and it was ran just over 108BHP so not bad, I reckon it would take a bit more. I know Frontline do kits for the rear end, if you have a bit of wolla, then bosh one of theirs on. Their Kits will take more power and use the standard casing.
My current Project involves the Midget with alot more power than that for sure.
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Last Edit: Aug 29, 2006 13:07:47 GMT by Nathan
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Aug 29, 2006 20:58:32 GMT
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Was in the garage yesterday and I have a Midget casing lying there doing nothing I had forgotten about - you can have it for nowt if you collect... Just one thing - the hub on one side was given some hammer (literally) trying to get a broken halfshaft out. DOn't know what if any damage, but even if knackered it could be useful for hacking/mocking up (and what do you want for nothing? ) |
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention
'02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think
'03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic)
'09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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) and as far as I know this is identical to the spridgets.
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