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Okay I was chatting to my dad last night and his MGB is sounding rather tempting. He has done all the suspension and brake work, sills, floor and all other welding (although it does need new door skins). He has a new tail gate to go on it that needs stripping and spraying. The car is solid. Now I'd like to fettle it further, my dad is talking about fiddling with the engine, but if I'm going to end up with it in the future I'd rather save him the time/cost  Okay so that brings me on to engine swap. My dad is in favour of V8 swap, for the obvious reaons, parts are available, its been done regularly, get good power gains etc. etc. I've been talking with RatDat about sticking something Japanese in, I was talking to my dad about this and he has raised some concerns. Ignoring the engine mounting, because that is the least of the problems. Assuming it would fit in the engine bay. The questions arise about gearboxes, axles, and final drive : I'd be having to swap the gearbox no matter what went in, so I'm assuming that I'd have to stick in a 200SX gearbox as well as engine. IF there were no problems with this then it would then raise the problem of getting the power from the gear box to the wheels. What else needs to be replaced?? The final drive is also set up for engines that deliver power at low revs apparently, which most Japanese engines do not, what is the answer to this. Will it cost an arm and a leg? |
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I know it's completely out of the norm for this site, but have you considered a bike engine.........? A nice 1100cc, 9500rpm+................worth thinking about.
I recall seeing an MGB with a Rover K-Series in a few years back - I'll see if I can hunt down some pics.........
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 I like long walks, especially when they're taken by people I don't like. |
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I'd be inclined to go for the v8 cos I like the engine, and the noise, but don't discredit J motors.
I'm sure you could mate to a ford type 9 box with an adaptor plate for the CA18DET bellhousing to bolt up to the box, there is bound to be a kit car out there with this config.
or as you say, you can use the 200SX box, we all know the BGT has a mentally strong rear axel, so you can keep that and have a prop made for the Nissan box to the GT axel.
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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These days, the only reason for using a Rover V8 is for the sound. As a power producer their time has passed really as so many modern, much smaller engines out perform them. The real bonus of a Rover is it's light weight but compared to a CA18DET, even that's not a bonus.
In terms of performance potential, I'd go for a modern four cylinder anny day of the old Rover lump but it depends on what you are looking for. If you just want a cool sounding cruiser then go with a Rover. If you want a really quick track car, then maybe the modern four pot is the way to go. I have had my 510 on track with a V8 powered Escort and my 510 could walk all over it. My car has a 2.4 DOHC four pot..normally aspirated.
To it's credit the Rover is capable of pretty good torque figures. While torque alone is not enough to make for a really quick car, what torque IS good for is making an easy to drive car as it will be flexible in the gears. My 510's engine is very torquey which makes for lisurely driving on the road as there's no real need to down shift for most hills or bends.
As for the technical issues. I would use the 200SX box and get the propshaft modified to suit. The 200SX box is a good modern 5 speed and it will amost certainly cost less to mod a prop than to mess about with adapting the engine to a different box. The CA usually pulls a 3.7 final drive anyway so I doubt it's going to have an issue with whatever ratio is in a B.
It's really down to what YOU want from a car. The main reason I wouln't go for the Rover is it'll just be yet another Rover V8 powered MGB. The only reason I can think of for using a V8 would be resale value but for me that's never a factor I really consider.
Before taking the plunge I'd look at some other options. How about a Rover/Honda V6 or even a Nissan 300ZX V6. The Nissan V6 is very compact and if you get an early 300ZX one it produces both more BHP and more torque than an SD1 engine. Plus it'll be economical too!
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Final drive ratio on the B is 3. 909: 1
The Rover has the advantage that the conversion has been done hundreds of times so the knowledge and parts are there.
What I want is a fast nicely trackday car. Something a bit different from the norm. v8'd MGBs are 10 a penny. I'd like to do something that little bit different. I want a small engine for weight balance purposes, as far back in the engine bay as it'll go.
Powerwise I don't need anything too ridiculous otherwise I'll be needing to do some Chassis reinforcement as well (which is where all this will start to get real expensive). I think anything over 200bhp will be pushing it.
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Then I'd go for a Vauxhaul XE or Honda V-Tech lump.
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I like long walks, especially when they're taken by people I don't like. |
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XE yes, but V-tech, no way. Too lacking in torque to be really fun unless in a very light car. I'd take an SR20 over any V-tech as it's just so much more flexible. If you've got the money I would definately recommend an SR20DET but you'll have trouble scoring one for less than a grand+. Even a stock SAR20DET is 200hp. I'll be seeling the KA24DE out of my 510 soon if you fancy some really different  |
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Even the Turbo V-Tech?  What about Rotary..........? |
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I like long walks, especially when they're taken by people I don't like. |
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I'll be seeling the KA24DE out of my 510 soon if you fancy some really different But then you'll replace it with something more powerful and I won't be able to score quicker times than you The real sticking points are the torque and power at high revs, my dad would want to be driving the car at some events and doesn't like hugely revvy engines. He does however LOVE Honda engines. What is the Honda V6 in? If I was a rich man I'd get an Integra Type R engine,.. they look like fun. |
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Aug 18, 2004 14:34:21 GMT
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I think if you want to be original then a J engine would be the way to go. The thing with a bike engine is that the clutch would be awful to work, and it would be really low on torque. The wankel rotary idea appeals to me too, although maybe it would be a curse word to work out in an MG engine bay.
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Aug 18, 2004 19:23:37 GMT
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Even the Turbo V-Tech? What about Rotary..........? I didn't think there was a factory turbo V-tech  Nissan were the first with a turbo VVT engine with the SR20VET which is used in the top of the range X trail in Japan. I'd love the get my mits on one of those..278bhp from the factory! Rotaries are typically low on torque but with appropriate gearing they fly. I've no idea what difficulties you might have in installing one though. Cooling them as always a big issue too and they are somewhat particular about exhaust design too so I've read. |
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Aug 18, 2004 19:35:48 GMT
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But then you'll replace it with something more powerful and I won't be able to score quicker times than you The real sticking points are the torque and power at high revs, my dad would want to be driving the car at some events and doesn't like hugely revvy engines. He does however LOVE Honda engines. What is the Honda V6 in? If I was a rich man I'd get an Integra Type R engine,.. they look like fun. Hehe..that's the idea Actually I'm installing a slightly less powerfull engine, the SR20DE but it is a variable valve timing engine. The main reason I want to go for that it is revs a lot higher than the KA so it's better for me on the track and it's 30kg lighter. The KA has big torque and is really better suited to a road car than a track car. I learned to my cost how much torque the KA has the first time I went drag racing and broke two diffs  THe Honda V6 is in the Legend and Rover 800 but I've no idea what transmission you could use to mount it RWD. The one used in the Vitesse here was near 200bhp I think. The problem with most FWD Honda four cylinders is they rotate the wrong way to be fitted in a RWD. I reckon the ultimate choice would be the S2000 engine but you'd really need to get you wallet out for that one! |
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Damn stupid engines spinning the wrong way,...
30kg lighter I can understand for changing the engine, but why do you want a higher reving engine? Most V8 powered cars don't rev very highly at all, but do very well in competative motorsport. You already get more than enough Torque out of the engine. Or do you have a revvy driving style?
I know someone that went from racing a (genuine) LeMans Cobra to racing Cosworth powered Ford Anglia. Had real problems with the Anglia at first until he was told all the power was at the high revs.
I had another thought overnight,.. Fiat Twincam? (another revvy engine)
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I can't run lower gearing in my 510 with the KA because the engine only revs to 6K. So I'm stuck with a 3.7 diff which isn't at all ideal for the track. I have run a 4.1 in it but the KA has so much low down torque you have trouble putting the power down...and then of course it runs out of revs really quick. The KA is also internally quite heavy so it's a fairly slow revving unit which will always limit acceleration. The SR is also very easy to modify as there's a huge aftermarket for it. I can get stuff for the Ka bit it's expensive to tune. I can tune the SR past 200bhp without spending collosal amounts of money on it. BTW, the V8 in my Javelin redlines at 7500rpm..not bad for an old pushrod V8! |
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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You're right, there's never been a factory version of the Turbo V-Tech, but there are plenty of J tuning companies around which do a conversion kit with a T28 turbo and a re-mapped ECU.
Something like 320bhp IIRC.
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I like long walks, especially when they're taken by people I don't like. |
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You're right, there's never been a factory version of the Turbo V-Tech, but there are plenty of J tuning companies around which do a conversion kit with a T28 turbo and a re-mapped ECU. Something like 320bhp IIRC. I would imagine a turbo equipped V tech would have some of the torque that the n/a lacks. I'd like to see a dyno chart ffor one and see how they deliver the power. Search time... |
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Last Edit: Aug 19, 2004 9:39:19 GMT by iRocco
I like long walks, especially when they're taken by people I don't like. |
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Aug 19, 2004 10:25:36 GMT
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Hmm any idea on cyno charts for Toyta 4AG engines,.. they usually powered RWD cars did they not?
What I need is a Dyno output from a Stock-ish 3.5(ish)ltr Rover V8 engine,.. plus weight etc.
Then some figures to compare it to.
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Aug 19, 2004 10:38:24 GMT
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IIRC, a Rover V8 weighs near enough the same as a 1.8 B Series
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[*]
Nissan were the first with a turbo VVT engine with the SR20VET which is used in the top of the range X trail in Japan. I'd love the get my mits on one of those..278bhp from the factory!