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Jul 30, 2011 13:20:54 GMT
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Bled the lines at the injector unions but still won't run. Starts then dies.
Is the timing likely to be out? I turned it over twice by hand after getting the belt on and I'm sure it was timed properly but there's the distinct possibility that I was wrong.
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Jul 30, 2011 15:11:05 GMT
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Was the injector pump properly locked in place whilst you were changing the belt? Was there any chance that it may have moved a tooth or two? A couple of degrees wrong on a diesel pump can be the difference between perfect running, and it not running at all! Annoyingly, there's no real easy way to time up a diesel (like a timing light for petrols) Is yours a Lucas, or bosch pump? As lucas pumps are also known to simply die  |
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You're like a crazy backyard genius! |
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Jul 30, 2011 16:08:34 GMT
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Had a mechanic friend round, we took the covers and mount off to have a look at the timing and it seems ok.
If the throttle is held open and it warms up enough then it WILL run - but it idles like wibblepoo and is blowing a fair bit of blue smoke from the exhaust.
We think the running problems is because it's got the wrong cam. I did ask on a 306 owners forum (bought the cam from a member on there) and got a response from a fairly renowned member that turbo and non-turbo cams (I'm not actually certain which mine is but there seem to be more turbo'd XUD9s than not, so the likelihood is that it comes from a turbo motor) aree the same, but that seems unlikely to me and we can't see any other reason for it to run so poorly.
The numbers on the old and new cam are different. Are these parts numbers or something irrelevant like build dates? I'm going to stick the old cam back in (the thread looks fine, think it's the bolt that was screwed) and see how it goes. As far as I can tell that should allow it to run fine, but I can't see any link between the exhaust smoke and cam differences so my best guess is that the headgasket's gone, which is my third in 3 months. Didn't have any problems beforehand though.
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Last Edit: Jul 30, 2011 16:10:57 GMT by wichard
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Jul 30, 2011 17:34:22 GMT
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sounds like pump timing even more tbh. And I'm guessing a Lucas pump
When you increase the fuelling on a lucas pump, the fuelling timing is essentially advanced. When your engine is cold, fuelling is slightly retarded IIRC. Holding the throttle wide open, would almost cancel out this timing retarding, giving close enough fuelling to let it kinda run. Pull off on the throttle, timing advances, stops igniting, stops running.
At least, that's what I know of lucas pumps. If it's Bosch, I can't see how it's doing that - unless it's electronic,and you've knocked a wire or two off somewhere from a sensor/etc
A pic of your pump REALLY would help diagnose what's going on....
The cam wouldn't make diddly-squat difference for normal running - as even the turbo versions run as essentially non-turbos before the turbo kicks in. Different part number doesn't nessecarily mean different timing, just different supplier, materials, etc
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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Jul 30, 2011 17:37:11 GMT
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I would be surprised if there was any significant difference in turbo and non-turbo cam profiles at idle, it should defo idle OK. I have to say i'd be questioning if you've got everything timed correctly.
Could the new cam be different in terms of how the pulley is oriented relative to the lobes? That would sent the timing to cock and you would never know it.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Jul 30, 2011 18:17:16 GMT
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Ooh, sorry, forgot to mention it's a bosch.
Having got the starter motor off, cam + pump sprocket lined up at TDC, it looks like the flywheel isn't timed properly (can't get pin in). Not sure how I manged that :/
I'll get it lined up properly then try running it. If it's not that then I'll change the cam over (and have a look at the pulley orientation)
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Jul 30, 2011 18:23:50 GMT
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It's fairly easy to get it mis-timed enough to run badly but not hit anything just by having the slack on the wrong side of the belt when you let the tensioner go - try and get the bit between the diesel pump and crank as straight as possible and the excess on the bulkhead side.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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Jul 30, 2011 18:45:11 GMT
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I've been reading this as it gets updated, can't help, know nothing about the engines, bet really want to see you get it running! Talk about fighting you all the way! Good luck bud, you'll get there in the end  |
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Remember the days when sex was safe and motorsport was dangerous. Vintage bling always attracts pussy.  |
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Jul 30, 2011 19:34:48 GMT
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This is going to sound daft but I can't for the life of me lock the flywheel at TDC. I've been trying to get the pin in for a good half hour, moving in teeny tiny increments but it just won't line up with the hole. Am I just being a clumsy oaf or is something actually wrong? P.S. By eye the cams look the same. Pulley/lobe orientation looks identical but my eye could be waaay out. I guess the numbers are build dates as (amongst other #s) there's 94 on one and 93 on the other - for a '95 car. So perhaps week no. then year no. I'm going to wolf down a curry then don my headtorch and get back out there. It'd be nice if this doesn't run into another day. Cheers for the words of support cairyhunt  (and the help everyone else!) |
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Last Edit: Jul 30, 2011 19:37:52 GMT by wichard
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Jul 30, 2011 20:16:00 GMT
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Still can't get the bleeder in. Not sure where I'm going wrong, it was no problem last time.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Jul 30, 2011 20:26:40 GMT
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Most diesels i've worked on have the same cam for NA and turbo but no expert on the PUG ? you did take the flywheel locking pit out before cranking didn't you ? been there done that meself, cracked the block on a transit Di doing that also had a few customer cars in with the pin snapped off in the locking hole so you cant find it again ? straw clutching in use here |
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R.I.P photobucket
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Jul 30, 2011 21:46:50 GMT
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you did take the flywheel locking pit out before cranking didn't you ? straw clutching in use here That's good thinking! As far as I know I took it out. I only used it as a guide really, with another tool ( cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360349223269&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT) to lock it properly. Obviously I had to remove that so you'd think I'd have spotted the pin at the same time. I haven't found any broken drill bits on my drive so I don't think it's in there but I will have to prod around with a magnet tomorrow and see if anything comes out to be sure. |
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Jul 31, 2011 14:52:39 GMT
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Well I still can't get it in the hole and don't have any kind of mirror-on-a-stick (or giraffe-esque neck) to be able to see if it's in there, and my magnet idea isn't working. I've also got a problem with the injector pump sprocket which is possibly the reason the timing is out. I just cannot get it to sit in line with the timing holes. It will only sit a nadge backwards (anti-clockwise). It's possible to get the M8 bolts in if you use your other hand to rotate it, but as soon as you let off it rotates that bit back, making the bolts sit at a jaunty angle. Is it safe to put a spanner/socket on the sprocket bolt and rotate it a bit further to line up with the holes? I don't have the strength in my hand; it'll only go so far before there's too much resistance. pics:   |
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Jul 31, 2011 16:29:51 GMT
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arent those bolts supposed to screw in, thus stopping them from pinging back like in your pic?
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Jul 31, 2011 16:36:36 GMT
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yes, they are. You should be ok holding the pulley still with a spanner on the centre bolt while you fish about trying to get the buggers in.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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The bolts are screwed in in those pictures, but it still turns back. A bit more huffing and puffing got them screwed in tighter and it wiggling less, enough for the timing to be fine and it to run like a dream (music to my ears after weeks of it sitting on the drive).
Well, running like a dream for a good 8miles. Made a funny noise (best described as rubbing/whizzing - like rubbing your fingernail on a hologram picture or putting a crushed coke can between your bike tyre and frame, but fast), then started losing power (all at about 80mph). Started pulling in sharpish. Had a quick poke in the engine bay and could see the cambelt was not on the tensioner; loose as all curse word. Have since been recovered home and had the other cover off, the belt seems to be in one piece, but has come off for whatever reason. Just how likely is my engine to be curse word? The cam sprocket twists freely by hand, pretty sure it didn't do that before.
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I've had a poke around on the internet and if I've been a lucky boy then it may just need a new cam and bearing caps. I'd like to say this is promising but I can't say I'm exactly enthused at the prospect of more cash and time down the drain.
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Last Edit: Aug 1, 2011 0:33:56 GMT by wichard
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What a nightmare you're having, I feel for you and admire your persistence. don't buy any bits until you've investigated whats wrong though, do you think the cam pulley is flopping about on the end of the cam? has the roll-pin or whatever it is that aligns the pulley on the cam, busted off somehow?
If I was closer (I'm on holiday in france right now!!!) I'd come round and see if I could help you.
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Last Edit: Aug 1, 2011 9:18:40 GMT by xbo11ox
1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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It's fairly easy to get it mis-timed enough to run badly but not hit anything just by having the slack on the wrong side of the belt when you let the tensioner go - try and get the bit between the diesel pump and crank as straight as possible and the excess on the bulkhead side. A simple thing - but deffo worth remembering! |
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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 The woodruff key is fine; it's the cam that's smashed to bits, as are 2 of 3 bearing caps. The studs for the centre bearing cap seem bent too, so I assume that means a new head. No idea on the state of the valves or pistons. I sort of don't care, I just want it to disappear now. I could put the other cam in and get some bearing caps and see what happens, but as is I don't even have any way to support the engine (gave back the jack I was borrowing) so I can't do a thing to it currently. A new head means another chunk of money, a lot more work which is, as ever, beyond my skill level. It may leave me with a car that'll last for years, but I'm not sure I'd even want it. I've had enough for arsing around under the bonnet. I want something to bleeding drive, not work on. I was intending on driving this a few thousand miles round Europe in the next few weeks. IN fact, I'd already be there if it weren't for my failings as a mechanic! (the same goes for my last two cars; had every intention of touring in those until their headgaskets went; neither lasted more than 3 weeks) So now I'm stuck with another dead car and very little time. I took a gap year (between college and university) and have been working my nuts off to save up for an awesome trip, now I've got 6 weeks left, no car and very little money as so much of it has been eaten by fixing and changing cars. Now I've pretty much resigned myself to not going on this trip, a year of my life has been more or less wasted. I can do something else with the money I've got but that leaves me very little time to actually do anything with the car. I've got a drive and tools to break it, but I won't be here much for the next 6 weeks and after that I'm moving to uni ~200 miles away. Scrapping it is the obvious option but the most I'd get incl. tax is £230ish, and it owes me £600+. Engine swap to a turbo one would be lovely but impractical. Fixing it and selling it may see £500 but by that point it'd owe £700+. Obviously I'm not going to break even or come close, but I want to lose as little as possible, especially after just throwing about £200 at it to make it a solid, reliable car, I've managed to balls it up to the extent that it's now useless and worth pittance. Great. I have no idea what to do. /sob story |
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Last Edit: Aug 1, 2011 18:45:39 GMT by wichard
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(and the help everyone else!)