Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,649
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Something I have Wanted to know.Nathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Jul 12, 2006 10:53:34 GMT
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Right after reading Blownips thread about his car, what I would like to know is.
How does a Blower work? where does it bolt to? How is it fed? What does it Feed? Does it require Megasquirt/Generic ECU? Compression, does it have to be lowered the same as a turbo?
This is not a project (got far too many), its just a need or want to know how it all works.
Sorry for sounding like a Complete Chump, I get N/A and injection systems yet Supercharging is somewhat a blank sheet for me.
Cheers
Nathan
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Jul 12, 2006 11:04:21 GMT
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In principal it is exactly the same as turbocharging. It is simply driven from the rotation of the crank (from memory) as opposed to exhaust gasses like a turbo. It feeds throttle bodies/throttle body and works on the same principle as a turbo in that it sucks in more air to force feed the intake with air. Although I believe a blower would not have the same turbine arrangement as a turbo, it would have a single turbine driven by a belt in order to directly force air into the intake. **edit** as opposed to having a turbine rotated by exhaust gasses connected to another turbine which sucks the air in.
Damn that is the worst explanation evAr.
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Last Edit: Jul 12, 2006 11:06:06 GMT by tigran
1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Jul 12, 2006 11:10:54 GMT
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Peugeot 307sw - Suzuki SV650S - MX5.
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Jul 12, 2006 11:31:23 GMT
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All I get is the Opera version of a 404 error I'm afraid.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Jul 12, 2006 11:35:03 GMT
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How does a Blower work? Its a belt driven turbo basically. Although there are several types of turbo which all have different characteristics (Roots, Screw, Rotary, Centrifugal) think of it as a belt driven turbo and you get the idea. where does it bolt to? Inlet manifold usually How is it fed? What does it Feed? Almost allways used in a draw-through application traditionally (with carbs), the new generation have been blow through (with EFI) Does it require Megasquirt/Generic ECU? No, you only need an ECU if you have EFI. A supercharger works fine with carbs. No ECU needed. Compression, does it have to be lowered the same as a turbo. Yes, but not usually by as much because superchargers usually run lower levels of boost due to restrictions in thermal efficiency compared to a turbo. You can run superchargers or turbochargers on higher compression ratios with intake cooling for certain applications. www.howstuffworks.com has a good section of turbos and superchargers.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Jul 12, 2006 11:42:15 GMT
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It's a pump, it uses rotational energy to compress air. Some are the same as the compressor side of a turbocharger, some are totally different and each have pros and cons. Anywhere where it can take a pully feed from the engine, just like an alternator. So either side or on top is the most common. They pull air through the usual induction system. Usually after the airflow meter on an injected engine or after the carb on a carbed engine. They blow directly into the engine just like a turbo usually into the inlet manifold/plenum. Does it require Megasquirt/Generic ECU? Boost usually requires more fuel and less ignition and that can be achieved in many different ways. Compression, does it have to be lowered the same as a turbo? Pretty much falls in line with a turbo yes however not all engines need their compression lowered and it depends on how much boost you want.
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Last Edit: Jul 12, 2006 11:44:09 GMT by MWF
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Jul 12, 2006 11:44:00 GMT
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In principal it is exactly the same as turbocharging. It is simply driven from the rotation of the crank (from memory) as opposed to exhaust gasses like a turbo. It feeds throttle bodies/throttle body and works on the same principle as a turbo in that it sucks in more air to force feed the intake with air. Although I believe a blower would not have the same turbine arrangement as a turbo, it would have a single turbine driven by a belt in order to directly force air into the intake. **edit** as opposed to having a turbine rotated by exhaust gasses connected to another turbine which sucks the air in. Damn that is the worst explanation evAr. The only correct statement in that lot is the last one Superchargers ARE NOT TURBOS.... don't think they behave in the same way because they don't Basically a supercharger is an Air pump, the simple "Roots" type Positive displacement chargers (Eaton- mini cooper s or Mercedes/jag units commonly seen on ebay) move a set VOLUME of air per revolution. there is no compression withing the charger, any compression is done in the manifold but Boost is a BAD thing do not go chasing it. For argument sake on a Midget or MGB you could bolt it on the side with a feed from the charger outlet to the inlet manifold where the carb used to sit. you then put the carb on the end of the charger so the charger sucks air through the 2" SU Run a belt to the pulley making sure you use a Tooth belt like J or plenty of wrap on the pulleys with a poly vee set up, and a tensioner of some sort. Mount it all securely, gear it to run about 6psi boost and you will have lots of lovely torque with virtually no increase in stress on the engine. With a Roots type, its all about increasing the volumetric efficiency (Cylinder filling ability) of the engine or in simple terms the area under the torque curve Do some reading here (Tigran too ) : www.superchargersonline.comSome good basic theory to get you started HTH Dom
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Jul 12, 2006 11:47:38 GMT
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I do not believe I said they are turbos. I said they work on the same principle as turbos - i.e. making more air available for the engine inlet, if this is wrong then accept my apology
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Last Edit: Jul 12, 2006 11:48:04 GMT by tigran
1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,649
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Something I have Wanted to know.Nathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Jul 12, 2006 11:50:45 GMT
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Excellent Cheers guys.
It all fits into place now.
So I guess with the SU carb you do not require an ECU?
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Jul 12, 2006 11:52:03 GMT
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Excellent Cheers guys. It all fits into place now. So I guess with the SU carb you do not require an ECU? No but you will need to retard the ignition slightly
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Jul 12, 2006 11:52:41 GMT
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So I guess with the SU carb you do not require an ECU? I don't know a great deal about this but I believe your carb has to be OK taking air pressure on the inside. Also the ignition curve may advance too far as standard.
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,649
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Something I have Wanted to know.Nathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Jul 12, 2006 11:54:42 GMT
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Humm sounds simple enough. Last question, Kinda related.
Inlet, of course the charger would not bolt straight to a Carb Inlet, are there any tips/pointers/Websites telling you how to create or re-work the inlet, E.G. Degree etc
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Jul 12, 2006 11:59:31 GMT
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A lot of blowers, like the Eatons for instance, can output to a hose so you can just buy a bonnet for the carb which closes the top off and usually puts a 90 degree albow on it, then run hose from the blower into the carb.
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Jul 12, 2006 12:02:57 GMT
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Humm sounds simple enough. Last question, Kinda related. Inlet, of course the charger would not bolt straight to a Carb Inlet, are there any tips/pointers/Websites telling you how to create or re-work the inlet, E.G. Degree etc Ask me nicely and I`ll sell you an outlet plate to weld a pipe to and an alloy inlet to suit a Mini Cooper S charger, with a Plate on the end ready to be drilled to suit your SU of choice For less that £200 you could get everything you need ready to make up the brackets including a Charger if you shop carefully ;D
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,649
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Something I have Wanted to know.Nathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Jul 12, 2006 12:03:46 GMT
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WOW Everyday is certainly a School day. This is starting to sound more and more simple by the minute. ;D (Cogs are spinning)
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Jul 12, 2006 12:11:43 GMT
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the only complex bit is making the pulley work. You need to know the pulley ratios and be able to mount the blower so the belt tracks true without shredding or throwing or killing a bearing.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jul 12, 2006 12:15:56 GMT
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True but if you can measure accurately and use a spirit level/laser level its not rocket science
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Jul 12, 2006 13:00:36 GMT
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Interesting stuff, some bedtime reading there, (more dreams than sleep), thanks for asking BGT! a super charger would be a great upgrade eventually to the V8, not sure aboutthe MR2, its been talked about a few times by the Mk1 lot.
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Jul 12, 2006 17:12:35 GMT
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you will have lots of lovely torque with virtually no increase in stress on the engine. I like the sound of that! Just wish I could afford a Shorrock for my Sprite......
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Jul 12, 2006 18:26:39 GMT
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I really don't think the engine knows wether it has a supercharger or a turbo on it, all it 'sees' is a higher density and fuel concentration.
Theoretically the ignition can be advanced, as an increase in charge density means a slower burn. Although the increse in dynamic compression ratio mean retardation is usually used, high compression ratios can be used with lots of boost if the ignition is retarded lots.
either way use an intercooler if the application is blow through, as a cooler intake means a safer more reliable engine with (usually) more power.
J
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