vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,087
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Aug 19, 2020 11:46:10 GMT
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Is this based on your initial experiences with the Lanchester club?! or is timing just a co-incidence. Coincidence, though it's the Lanchester that's been bringing this issue up more than any other car I've owned because of the sorts of people whose interest it attracts.
Speaking of, the Daimler and Lanchester Owners Club online presence isn't actually that bad for a traditional club. They've been around a long time which seems to have helped rather than hindered them. Their forum allows access to a good amount of information, is surprisingly active, and has so far attracted support for my own car and the questions I've had. They have all the traditional things, the gala dinners, the tours, the magazine, and none of that tempts me to part with the £48 annual subscription fee. I'm not crazy interested in Daimlers and Lanchesters, I'm only really interested in the one I've got and trying to look after it and I can do that without joining the club due to the other info out there.
That's probably another place that clubs fall over too. If you want to attract new members but the information you'd normally hold to ransom with a fee is already out there, you need to look at other ways to draw people in and get the financial support, this is where folks like slipngripross and scmick look to have figured out how to modernise the club model effectively and make it relevant to a wider audience.
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Aug 19, 2020 12:27:30 GMT
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I spent about 8 years as member of the local Mini club (5 on the club committee).
The difference we had at the time (mid-90s to early 2000s) was that Minis were cheap and easily found/fixed/restored so naturally appealed to young people at the time. The majority of the members WERE young and attracting new members was relatively easy.
As membership secretary I always did my best to welcome new members personally and showed genuine interest in their vehicle, emphasising that it's not "just a boring Mayfair" it's YOUR Mini, and that was the important thing. Trying however to get members to tell the committee what THEY wanted from the club was like getting blood from a stone. The impression I got was that the regular members at the meets expected the committee to arrange everything and expected the Earth.
I spent many voluntary hours writing articles for the club mag and assisting in arranging events. I once arranged a trip to Ireland for 30 people. Not one said thank you. A thankless task one might say. I won't be on a committee anymore because nobody appreciates what you do.
Clubs have a tendency to become cliquey, and if your face/car/personality doesn't fit, then neither will the rest of you. I went to GTI International about 14 years ago and I have never felt more out of place and unwelcome, because I wasn't "scene" enough.
I go to the East Coast Retros Shotley meets when they're on - it's a lovely laid back atmosphere with plenty of youngsters and zero tolerance for d**ks. They have embraced the need to use social media in order to attract new blood and it works. There's no judgement - just an appreciation of old and modified motors.
Car clubs of old are not attractive to youngsters as they do not suit their demographic. Some won't change, and as a result won't be around once their elder members hand in their car keys.
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Aug 19, 2020 12:31:02 GMT
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It's not just car clubs that 'have problems' attracting new members; I have seen it across many areas of interest including railways. It all depends if the Club/Organisation has allowed two or more people to develop a 'clique' and then move into the Committee; that can radiate down through the membership and if you "don't fit" the clique, you'll never get anywhere. It can also happen further 'down' the membership, especially if money gets involved (from one car club I was in, some of the Committee were basically sponging off the club lining their own pockets with 'spares' and 'cars', making sure they were first contact points and having fingers in everything - it all got very, very messy and nearly killed the Club until one of the founders waded in with their big boots on). Thanks to a sort of decentralisation process, the Club is now thriving. The fact people 'don't get on' is a socialogical problem promoted by, for the main part, education and media. I was chatting with an old school friend a few weeks ago who used to lecture at a university and now doesn't, because he "didn't have the right attitude to society" - basically he had different views to the "accepted normality" and life was made difficult. As he said, years ago higher education was a melting pot of different views and attitudes to life and not everybody agreed with everybody else, but you got on with it and learned to accept (but not necessarily agree with) the differing views. Today, unless you "toe the line", you're done, and that is a destructive sickness permeating the whole of society. Sadly, though, it often takes an 'outsider' to look at an organisational set-up to see where the problems lie and if the problems are systemic and deep rooted (my favourite one is "I was in this club before you were thought of, boy!" - which is probably why you have three committee members left and a bunch of 'in for a year' members....) they won't be accepted with any grace. No one person is bigger than their organisation, but that is sadly overlooked, especially to "keep them quiet". It isn't an easy call and there are many facets to the problem, but it is good to see it being seriously debated at last.
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Rover Metro - The TARDIS - brake problems.....Stored Rover 75 - Barge MGZTT Cdti 160+ - Winter Hack and Audi botherer... MGF - The Golden Shot...Stored Project Minion........ Can you see the theme?
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,984
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Aug 19, 2020 12:58:47 GMT
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I've been a member of a handful of Saab clubs in three different countries over the past 15 or so years (I'm in my early 40s), each for only a few years. Interestingly, in all three countries there are two Saab clubs, who all claim to be the "original" or "official" club. I'm still a member of one, mainly because so far this has been the only club that's not given me a concrete reason to cancel my membership. I have to say, the club members that I personally know or have met are all very nice people.
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Last Edit: Aug 19, 2020 12:59:42 GMT by melle
www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Aug 19, 2020 13:12:30 GMT
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Mmm, I agree apart from that I actually find RR quite intolerant at times. In my experiance it's a bit of a leftie haven. I've had quite a bit of abuse from people off here over the years adding me on facebook Maybe they added you because they respected your builds, and then found out you are not at all the sort of person they thought you'd be and are stunningly disappointed (others of us have known you long enough to not be surprised). This is definitely a danger when connecting with people in the real world, in clubs etc. You might find that the car you like is predominately owned super liberal lefties, when you are entirely opposite that. Or you might find that someone you joined the club to meet up with is a massive racist or something. Mostly it should be about the shared enjoyment of the car and structured to make sure that is the case*. Note in Adam's example it is on facebook, where any old simpleton can write political screeds with a total lack of self awareness or real understanding, which definitely invites robust discussion in that area, which is why I try and keep politics off of here. *except for the massive racist, those guys can go to hell. This, lots. I’ve added a few people off here to my FB or insta (or they have added me) based on them having cool cars. They’ve then turned out to be racist xenophobic right wing ar$eholes, When myself and my carefully curated group of car friends are very much not. So they immediately went in the bin, irrespective of their car or how cool it is. Life is too short to see them spouting such bile.
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duncanmartin
Club Retro Rides Member
Out of retro ownership
Posts: 1,320
Club RR Member Number: 70
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Aug 19, 2020 13:22:09 GMT
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That process isn't restricted to cars (or racists) though. I've added a few people I raced with at my cycling club, and then got flooded with various forms of propoganda (vegan, anti-vax, anti-car etc*). No point in fighting them, just un-follow and get on with life. It's common to hear about how social media allows people to live in their own little silos, but I don't necessarily agree. You choose your friends, your newspaper, what TV you watch etc regardless of the internet. In some ways, social media pushes together people who wouldn't necessarily have met or discussed these topics in person, which is why huge cultural clashes can occur. Without facebook, I would have just thought the above people were cool cycling people and never discovered our differences.
*Edit - not comparing these things with racism, clearly.
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Aug 19, 2020 13:23:09 GMT
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I gave up with clubs, mainly of the Vauxhall variety as I wasn't interested in sitting in a field all day eating home made cakes, most of the people were ok and the age group was pretty varied, the worst I found were the Autobahnstormers for the Carlton/Senators and the NSRA when I had my Chevelle, all very very clicky and uninviting
I don't and wont ever do faceache, Instawhatever and the other hatefull things like that so this is one of my go to forums for some great stories, Just because I haven't posted on your thread doesn't mean I havent read it and enjoyed it!
A few issues of late have got me concerned though as to peoples attitudes to one another which is a bit sad
For the record I'm a white 56 year old male and do sometimes feel like were all made out to be something were not!
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Aug 19, 2020 13:24:06 GMT
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Before the politics digression I did want to add this, and it is something that I've struggled with for Club RR: What are you offering that you can't already find?
Of old clubs would be the place to find those people that knew what they were talking about, the hard to find parts, the access to official technical documentation etc. Now days with access to information more readily available you need to consider what makes being a member of a club worth it. Then you need to consider if that gels with what the people you are trying to attract want.
If your club's main selling point is a social scene built around certain vehicles or vehicle types then that may not appeal to a younger audience if it is predominantly older folk (and vice versa for some clubs). This is where "youth chapters" and stuff come in, and I think The Imp Club and NSRA deal with that very well.
Also it is worth considering what constitutes a club now days too, a facebook group is not a club, a forum is not a club, a regular pub meet up group almost is (if it has a name). Are people fulfilling their old "club" needs in other ways, if so, what is the gap that is left and can a Club fill that gap and be attractive to the target audience.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Aug 19, 2020 13:41:51 GMT
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I’m only a paid up member of two clubs. Club RR, and the VHRA.
Club RR cos I’ve been here from the start, been involved with the place growIng and evolving, and have a lot of long time friends that have come from that. I know the club isn’t offering a whole load yet but I thought get in early and support it so it can further down the line. Tbh in my head I’ve not really got anything for my £20 other than a sticker, but as I say I’m playing the long game.
VHRA is mostly for access to events and vehicle Registering aids. Plus the same as above, the more members the more the club can do. Pendine would never have happened as an event without the support of members subs. They also do some really cool, high quality, members only merch each year though, Which goes a long way to the feeling of ‘value for Money’ from membership.
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Aug 19, 2020 13:59:17 GMT
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Similar but different. I went to a badminton club a couple of times a few years back, I used to play before then but stopped.
I had a very hard time getting a game with anyone, the members only wanted to play against their friends. I think it wasn't really open to new members, they were quite happy with the current membership.
It made me feel like a kid at a new school.
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Aug 19, 2020 14:01:45 GMT
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As said before, politics is another reason that puts us off too. I once took my Trabi to a club stand at a show in Kent. Some absolute cretin decided as soon as he saw my Trabant to start ranting about the Labour party, environmentalists and paedophiles - he didn't even bother introducing himself. Obviously, this guy needs some serious help, but it put me off of that group for life and I've now bought a single vehicle entry to this year's show. If I wanted to hear rants like this, I would browse the local news site comment sections rather than listen to this drivel at 7am on a Sunday morning. For the record, owning a Trabant as a classic car for no reason other than fun is possibly the least environmentalist thing you can possibly do after punching wild fowl in the face! Whatever your politics are, I don't want to hear it at a car show!
I am a paid member of the IFA club though, as they offer a good discount on insurance and are a group of lovely and helpful people. To get mine registered, I had a personal visit from the leader of the club (or whatever the title is), where he drove from Peterborough to confirm that my vehicle was legit - all for fuel cost. Now that's how to do it! Plus, there's information available and shows are held throughout the year (unfortunately my location doesn't make attending these possible).
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Last Edit: Aug 19, 2020 14:06:25 GMT by mikehamid
Project - 1990 Trabant 601 Daily - 2006 Saab 93
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Aug 19, 2020 14:55:35 GMT
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Great thread Mr vulgalour, and great posts by everyone. I havnt read them all properly yet, my mind still racing from road idiots on the way home from work. Anyway, I can only give my point of view, not right or wrong or including every possibility, just my point of view. Firstly. This forum. Member or not, its a community open to every type of car, any age, any make, any colour, modified or not, clean or not. Anything. The lot. This forum may not be the only example of this, but compared to what I grew up with its alot more inclusive and interesting. One make car clubs do have their benefits, but it would be hard to make one appeal to a younger person compared to all the variety you see here. I grew up in a one make car club, The Maxi Owners Club . It was great. Fantastic community sharing their own experiences and knowledge, close connections to the Allegro club, 1800 landcrab club and others, and going to car shows showed me all the variety I wanted, authough it was 'classic car shows', not 'custom car shows', even though there was a fair bit of crossover. When I started going to Mini shows this was where the clickyness started. You even were or you weren't. Simple as that. Being in that one make car club most of the people were older, and they still are now, there is simply nothing that stands out about the cars to attract young people. Its just an 'old car'. The COOC (Cambridge Oxford Owners Club) however, has great success attracting young people because their cars arnt just 'old cars' they have genuine motorsport pedigree and people love them for it. Its made a wide range of people aware of them from a younger age so they grow up wanting one, or if not wanting one, the enthusiasm is there at least. When I passed my test having a classic was A)Inevitable and B)Cheaper and more interesting than the modern option, but without my dads knowledge, enthusiasm, skill etc etc it may not have even happened, and it was growing up with the cars that made me determined to follow him up and down the country to shows. It wasnt anything to do with the clubs attracting me, just the cars.
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Aug 19, 2020 15:34:27 GMT
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When I passed my test in 1998 everyone's first cars were either family hand me downs near the end of their life or ones bought out of the local paper for cheap.
These were nice and easy to work on when necessary and learning on them was quite straightforward if you had the desire. No engine management light to confuse you, no engine covers to hide stuff from you, no cats or dpfs.
I think these cars gave me a good introduction to car tinkering and as I've gotten older I've gotten more knowledge and experience as the years and cars have passed. And this is what enjoy about our hobby, messing with cars. Without this diyer level of knowledge I don't think I'd find this club interesting.
This club is perfect for me, I want to see all the details of a build, series 1 land rover, kit car, anglia whatever. In general most threads are filled with the personality of the author, great writing and there is plenty of humour also.
Cars are seen as more disposable nowadays so maybe younger drivers move from car to car without getting their hands dirty and that could mean their version of a car club is a place to discuss remaps and wheel offsets rather the qualities of hydrate 80.
I've read that back and it's a long ramble but I've typed it now so I'm posting it.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:17:51 GMT
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In all honesty I've never really considered joining a one-make club. Not sure if that makes me an ideal test specimen or not!
I'm not much of a socialite really, so the whole pubs and meetups thing has never really appealed to me. Not enough time to fix the damn things in the first place, let alone go out for a meal! It's tough enough keeping up with the mates I already have as a bit of a garage hermit.
I have come close to purchasing membership from a couple of places though. One was Guy Croft's website which was a bit of an anomaly for me. That requires a small paid fee to register for the forum, which is undoubtedly worth it if you're building a hot Fiat engine as Guy is a real guru and one of the few very well regarded head porters that quite happily gives out good advice on forums. Reason I didn't is that I wasn't building a Fiat engine quite yet, so the expense could wait.
All the others I've been tempted by have had one thing in common: access to grassroots motorsports.
From where I'm sitting in hermit-dom there's two options for me to go and blat around as fast as I can. The first is on the streets and is free but dangerous, and not really to be encouraged. The second is to shell out for a trackday, which is brilliant fun but quite expensive for what it is (couple of hundred quid for a day).
There is a set of third options, which is where clubs can find a real niche I think. Discounted trackdays for members is done by a fair few. Autosolo and autograss are great options to scratch the competitive itch without the late-years earning potential you need for proper motosports series. I'm sure it's far, far more complicated but if an old airfield or carpark can be hired for a day using club dues and shots at a Retro Rides cone-course offered for £20 a pop with a small award for the fastest/slowest/most interesting/most surprising I'm sure you'd get a lot of take-up.
The success of Slip'n'Grip shows that theres a definite niche for a way of blowing off fast-car steam in an affordable environment. Hell, the reason I found Retro Rides was searching for hillclimbs you can enter without a fully race-prepped vehicle (found the Gathering video of cars running up the hill). As soon as I've got a car running that's worth it I'll be trying to snag a spot!
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Aug 19, 2020 16:39:43 GMT
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Also, I'd like to reiterate the importance of a good forum over things like an FB group or instagram hashtag. Not only are they more permanent so their whole history is on display to entice people into coming to have a look, but because they're compartmentalised into different sections you can hone in on the bits that interest you. Because I'm rarely interested in the social aspect, I can hide away in the 'project cars' bits and talk techy geeky stuff with other techy geeks. The social people can talk social stuff in their social bits. Compare that to an FB group and you have to scroll through page after page of other interests to get to the post about someone doing some interesting development work. I get that people like different things, which is why lumping them all into one stream of information just means everyone has to sift through more stuff they're not interested in. If it came to a choice of the RR forum or transitioning to a facebook group I'd happily pay to keep it running! Missed out on the last call for funds by 10 minutes or so... tl;dr the forum is good, keep the forum
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Laters
Club Retro Rides Member
Head Droid Builder and Bottle Washer
Posts: 123
Club RR Member Number: 115
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Aug 19, 2020 16:40:22 GMT
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Over the years I have been a member of more than a few car clubs of varying types ranging from one like "Club Retro Rides" through single make multi model down to single make single model type clubs.
Some of the clubs are all about "willy waving" & who has the best/fastest/most polished car & are full of brand snobs, are very closed shop and cliquey.
Some of the other clubs appeared on the surface to be really helpful but in my experience can be spoiled when a certain group end up using the club, forum as a example, as a platform to promote themselves & getting help or advice can sometimes be harder than it needed to be.
I have now started to avoid single make internet type clubs as most of the time as a question about faults for example will most of the time end up being pointed toward the "club suppliers" which is fine if money is no object but does become a issue if the "club supplier" is charging double the actual cost from everywhere else. don't get me wrong I will support specialist suppliers where I can but when a propshaft joint through the club supplier is what it costs to buy 2 elsewhere I struggle with that.
I am a member of a single make car club currently and it has its pro's and con's. I like the insurance discount my membership gives me. I like the club magazine. The other aspects of the club are just not so great for me sadly.
That is one of the reasons when "club retro rides" was announced that I joined as I have got more information on this forum over time & I might not post a lot but do enjoy reading and picking up advice from other peoples posts and threads.
"Club Retro Rides" has a mix of different cars and people from all backgrounds which in my view is one of the things that makes it so much better than all the others I have been a member of over the years.
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Club Retro Rides Gti Member
Garage Queen, 1987 Quantum Saloon
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Aug 19, 2020 16:40:36 GMT
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I've never understood the assumption that just because you like the same car/s as someone else that you'll get along and be best mates. Same as music, films, games etc. It's just a subjective preference, not an indicator of personality type or their level of basic human decency. You get the same with people who think that because you've got children, you'll obviously get on with them, or other parents because they do as well. I freely admit I'm not the most sociable of people.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,984
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Aug 19, 2020 16:51:37 GMT
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Cars are seen as more disposable nowadays That's what they said in the 1970s too, and what they'll probably say in the 2070s as well.
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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Aug 19, 2020 16:59:03 GMT
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I've never understood the assumption that just because you like the same car/s as someone else that you'll get along and be best mates. Same as music, films, games etc. It's just a subjective preference, not an indicator of personality type or their level of basic human decency. You get the same with people who think that because you've got children, you'll obviously get on with them, or other parents because they do as well. The common denominator on here is cars, keep the threads car based and most of them are happy little places.
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 58
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Aug 19, 2020 17:12:37 GMT
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Similar but different. I went to a badminton club a couple of times a few years back, I used to play before then but stopped. I had a very hard time getting a game with anyone, the members only wanted to play against their friends. I think it wasn't really open to new members, they were quite happy with the current membership. It made me feel like a kid at a new school. I've played for years since childhood and while some are better than others, I have found badminton clubs can have some of the worst cliquey behaviour. Then you get things introduced like peg boards with names on to keep people rotating who they play with but then some people can't handle playing with new people so they try and fudge it and you get a load of drama, it gets laughably childish at times I've taken a break from badminton at the moment but what I did see a year or so ago was clubs having to reduce the amount of teams they had in the leagues either through people not re-joining or players getting old and stopping playing, which is exactly the same issue that some of the old school car clubs are facing/will face!
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