vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,087
Club RR Member Number: 146
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I've been mulling over something that a neighbour said recently about car clubs. Well, a couple of things really, the main thing was "How do we attract younger people to the club?" It's a good question, and it's one I've been asked a few times over the years because, generally, I'm younger than the people who are normally interested in the sorts of cars I'm interested in. It's not unique, it's just that I'm well off retirement age and I tend to like the stuff folks who have already retired do. Not entirely sure why, it's just the way it is, I'm an anomoly so I attract the question. Some interesting pictures thrown in here to break up the wall of text. This is geared towards your traditional one make/marque of club rather than the gestalt entity that is RetroRides. Clubs could learn a lot from the way things are done around here.
 It got me thinking about what does attract me to a club, or on the flipside what puts me off. When I was first into cars, pre-internet, clubs were often the only way to get a decent amount of up to date relevant information and they usually came with a membership price tag that ostensibly paid for a regular printed magazine, some doodads, and access to spares. Pre-internet, this made good sense and joining a club was a good investment for the enthusiast, and this remained true through much of the 90s while the internet was still this weird unstable thing that'd never catch on.
Now, that format for a club doesn't really work on its own. The sorts of clubs that ask 'How do we attract younger people' are still using a club model from at least 30 years ago and rather than being a welcoming model it can be quite the opposite. I speak only for my own experience here, yours may differ, and hopefully this can highlight some of the ways a club can attract younger people and avoid putting them off. RetroRides actually gets a lot of it right, probably because it's constantly changing and evolving without ever compromising what it is at its core, and manages to stay relevant to a younger audience without really pushing the older audience out too much, that's a difficult thing to achieve and looking at RetroRides helped me understand some of the problems with the traditional car club approach.
First Impressions They matter and you only get to make them once. Many clubs seem to think the first encounter people are going to have with them is in the real world when in fact, many people go online and research a car before, or shortly after, they've bought it so their first encounter will be the club website. Rarely are either of these encounters particularly positive, and I'll come to that in a little bit.
Membership Fees An antiquated though necessary thing, the membership fee should pay for things that are useful to the club member. Clubs can no longer really say the membership fee is to access information about the vehicle in question because information is so much more freely shared now. A printed magazine is an expensive thing and most people prefer a digital copy so the membership fee is rarely justified there either. Club spares schemes are often poor, with the membership fee rarely seeming fair for the paltry selection of parts available to members, and often with a lack of any new items. It's almost like the Membership Fee is something clubs have because they feel they have to have it and in some cases discussing money and being open about where the fees are spent is considered taboo which muddies the waters further. Some of the best approaches I've seen to membership fees is to clearly outline what it's for. Some clubs do this better than others. Special discounts with products relevant to the vehicles, insurance schemes and special events are all good ways for members to feel their money is being spent well. However, when it comes to attracting younger members I'd recommend doing something more interesting and relevant than 'gala dinners' and 'tours of Europe' as your incentive to sign up, many younger members don't have much interest in the former and don't have the time or money spare to indulge in the latter, all their spare time and money is likely going in the car they've just bought and now have to sort out.
It would be good to see clubs offer a 'basic' membership that's more affordable and geared toward younger members, allowing access to the club spares and some of the discounts, and then have a 'premium' membership that pays for the more exclusive traditional events like those gala dinners. This would allow younger members to be involved comfortably and bump up to premium if they felt they could. £50 a year and up, which is what many of the more traditional clubs charge, can often seem an extravagance for what you're getting in return as a younger member, almost as though you're investing in the fun other retired members are getting to have. A half price basic membership would be a good way to allow new members to dip in, experience what the club has to offer, and bump up if they were comfortable doing so. If nothing else, the club ends up with a lot of smaller memberships coming in which should help boost finances and allow the club to do more.
The Internet There are so many car clubs that seem to have heard of the internet and not fully grasped what to do about it. There's been at least 20 years where car clubs could make use of the internet. At least 10 where they could make use of social media. And yet... It's one of the most disappointing aspects of traditional car clubs because a lot of the time you'll encounter an out of date website, a flimsy forum, or at worst a single page with some fuzzy photographs and sketchy contact details that tell you nothing at all about the club. Considering how many younger people's first encounter with the club is going to be online, either deliberately or by accident, it really should have a lot more effort put into it. Now, the majority of first encounters with older cars is via the internet, it's not via the car show on the village green. Some clubs do understand the need for internet presence and window dressing, they keep a good forum, keep the important contact details up to date, keep a smart website and up to date galleries. There are some clubs that also have a decent splash of information about discounts, spares, and events that those signing up can enjoy, with directions to the free stuff for those not sure if they want to commit fully yet. There are some clubs who use social media too, with varying degrees of success, though too many rely on Facebook groups and abandon the forums which makes searching for information and answers on how to maintain and research a vehicle difficult. These days, clubs need to assign at least one person to curate the online side of things, both the club's image and a FAQ section for the vehicles they cater to. Not My People Perhaps the biggest problem with car clubs trying to attract young people is that so many of their event photographs and videos feature the club members themselves. Unpopular opinion time here. If you want to attract a certain demographic to your group you MUST represent them. I'm not going to want to sign up to a club if every single person in the photographs is twice my age, wearing excessive beige, and sat around having yet another meal in yet another fancy restaurant or marina with none of the cars the club is supposed to be focused on even in shot. This is one of those things that RetroRides actually does well, there's such a broad range of ages, skin tones, fashion, apparent social standing... it feels like anyone can be part of it so long as they're behaving themselves. The majority of traditional club photos always seem to show the same sorts of people, the comfortable white retirees. It's not welcoming because even if it's not your intention, it looks like a clique, and younger people aren't generally going to want to hang around with people that look like their grandparents. Even if they're lovely people, this takes us back to one of those First Impressions things.
Attitude Many car clubs in person have a rubbish attitude, especially to younger people. There's no point getting your cars out there as a club to try and welcome new people if you're going to be dismissive and rude of basic questions. There's this sneer, with a tutt, that you encounter with traditional club folk at shows sometimes, this attitude that "well everybody knows that!" and it doesn't make you want to learn more. Obviously, it's not every club, but it's common enough that I do tend to avoid asking anything at all, or speaking to the owners, because even though I want to learn something it's easier to just go online and avoid the social interaction with some sour old person who thinks I'm an idiot for not knowing what a capillary tube looks like, or am too young to have ever encountered Bakelite before.
What The Club Is For Many car clubs put off younger potential members by forgetting what the club is for. A club's job is to make sure there's the information, wisdom, and parts to keep a particular sort of vehicle going. It's something you do for the passion of it, not for the investment potential, not for the bragging rights, not for the socialising. With a club, the vehicle comes first, everything else is a happy little bonus. If you make friends through the cars, brilliant. If your car ends up being worth lots of money, superb! But it's not the reason you joined the club and it's not the reason other people will join either, so don't lose sight of that. Younger people getting involved in a club are going to be there for the cars and the experience of how to look after them first and foremost, that should be the primary concern of the club. It's there to provide answers when someone asks "How do I do this?" or "How does this work?" or more importantly perhaps "Is that supposed to do that?". Clubs are nerdy, embrace it, enjoy it. There's a time and a place for rivet counting and investment and swanning about but it's not how you attract the younger members. You were young once Remember, you were young once too. Priorities differ as we get older, demands on our time and resources differ too. Accept that young people are going to ask a lot of seemingly daft questions, it's part of learning. Accept that young people might not want to do things your way, or the club way. Accept that what you, at 50+, find fun someone at 30 is going to find dull, or intimidating, or expensive. In Summary If you really want young people to be involved in your hobby, accept that they're going to change the way things are done, they're going to bring new ideas, and they're going to want your help learning about their new passion. Accept that they might not stick around, that they might not have the money and time to 'do it the club/right way' and that it's okay.
Focus on the cars. Be more visually diverse in your membership if you can. Sort out your internet presence, for goodness sake. Most of all, be supportive and do your best. Footnote Oh one other little thing too, please stop being casually sexist and sometimes racist. There's no good excuse for it and I don't know why it's so prevalent in car clubs, particularly the more traditional ones, but it's the fastest way to make sure you don't get younger people on board. Cheers.
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So much of this rings true. I have never joined a car club, one because when I was younger, the cars that would now be considered "Classic" or "Retro" were't then, and later, because I always got the feeling that you weren't really welcome. The Land Rover Club of the Philippines pretty well makes every mistake in the above post. Their website was last updated, as far as I can see, in 2010, and they have since migrated over to the hateful Facebook, a fantasy world in which the entire nation seems to dwell. That alone would put me off. Their maintenance tips revolve around welding a spout on your manifold so you can fill your exhaust with soapy water overnight to clean it out. Seems this is how to beat being pulled over for excessive smoke, not to mention a fine and cheap way to avoid proper maintenance. To be fair, they do say if your diesel does smoke excessively, there might be "something" wrong. Oh, and fuel up early morning, as you get more gasoline for your Peso then.  Then a few years ago, when I enquired about joining, I was told I had to complete an application form which, apart from asking mine and the vehicle details, had a bit that basically said, "I want to join the Land Rover Club of the Philippines because..." Sorry? I need to give you a reason? I should have thought it was obvious. I didn't bother. They also don't let non-owners join, which I find odd. Give 'em some encouragement to buy one instead of driving them towards Toyota Instead, and actually via this very forum, I met up with a couple of other '38 owners here and now (a pre-COVID now, that is), every few weeks some of us get together for breakfast on a Sunday morning, talk Range Rovers, exchange useful info and sometimes parts too. I got my new fibreglass door runners this way. All very informal, friendly and relaxed. We did attend one LRCP 'do' and I was studiously ignored, instead of actively recruited. Needless to say, I won't be joining LRCP, no matter what my age!  |
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I won’t join any one make club again
Snobbery , mines better than yours, I don’t want my car next to his a the National etc etc
Oh and I never rejoined the Mercedes Benz club after a member tried telling all around us my W202 wasn’t a classic and never would be and shouldn’t be allowed in the club
Nope clubs are not for me
My lad was welcomed with open arms here first posting at age 15
we’ve met many people from here, for me personally internet based clubs for multi marque cars are far more accommodating
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Last Edit: Aug 19, 2020 8:41:06 GMT by Mercdan68
Fraud owners club member
1999 Jaguar s type
1993 ford escort
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,454
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Lots of good points. I have a Rover P6. Attended a meet of the local club once, and they were nice people but I was the only non-retiree (and being in my early 20s, that made a large difference in age!). In addition, I was one of 3 P6s which turned up. Everyone else turned up in modern cars. We then sat in the back room of a pub, unable to see the cars. Also, I'm sure I remember a bit of this: Footnote Oh one other little thing too, please stop being casually sexist and sometimes racist. There's no good excuse for it and I don't know why it's so prevalent in car clubs, particularly the more traditional ones, but it's the fastest way to make sure you don't get younger people on board. Cheers.
Nothing against the people in question. I just didn't see their love for the cars at the meets. I've never understood people with a love for a single car or marque over all others. A cool car is cool no matter what it is  Probably why I now own cars from 4 countries, 5 manufacturers across 2 continents. Seeing something old and interesting on the roads will make me smile no matter what it is! |
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Is this based on your initial experiences with the Lanchester club?! or is timing just a co-incidence. I think the only issue with the "Not My People" section is it's a vicious circle - if the club hasn't attracted a diverse membership they can't include them in photos. I guess they could ask a more diverse range of people at shows to stand around their club stand while they take photos but then when people do join up they might wonder where all those people are at the shows. |
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 58
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Many nails hit on the head above. I was 20 when I bought my MGB GT, but at no point in the last 8 years of ownership have I particularly considered joining the MGOC or MGCC (owners club and car club respectively), a big part of that is the perceived image of such clubs. MG's are probably one of the worst for it, conjuring up images of old blokes with standard shiny cars that only come out on sunny weekends to bimble about the country lanes. (not that there is anything wrong with doing that if that is your bag) I think for me, part of the issue is younger and older classic owners may have different reasons for buying their cars in the first place. An older club member may have bought their car because of nostalgia from when they younger, whereas a younger owner may have bought their car because they wanted something different from what their peers are driving. Understanding why younger classic owners have bought their cars and what they want to do with them is crucial. If you're a younger owner who bought their classic to be a bit different, you won't necessarily want to line up in a club with 100 other MGB's sat on minilites that all look the same. I have found some places on the net that are a bit better for MGs though, the MGExperience forum has a mix of some rivet counters but with modders and racers which seems to work, it's mostly American though so doesn't give as much opportunity to meet up with other owners in real life. There are also a couple of UK based MG facebook groups which are active and open to new ideas with MGs, but do suffer from the aforementioned issues with facebook groups in that the "content" is rather "in the moment", difficult to drag up archived information. TL;DR, car clubs should understand the individual's reasons for owning a classic and what they want to do with it, and accept that not everyone wants to drive a concours spec example. Edit to add: no offence or anything meant to anyone who runs or is in a single make car club, this is just my perception |
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Last Edit: Aug 19, 2020 9:15:26 GMT by adam73bgt
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I'm 40 and have been a member in a few owners clubs. I've never been to any of their organised events though. I've paid my membership as their forums and members have usually been sources of excellent knowledge and advice, and I want to support the continuation of that.
The Internet is always on and I'm not prepared to give up a sunday to drive to a meet when I can view the cars online when it suits me. I'm not a very social person though.
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Don't have time to fully read this fully just now - but excellent & very valid subject matter - look forward to it with interest this evening |
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Why do they care about appealing to young people in the first place? 'Owners clubs' have never appealed to young people for all the obvious reasons. They are for old men who like old cars how old men like them. They should concentrate on appealing to thier demographic. Young people have thier own clubs. Somtimes one make somtimes not but based around the reasons they want to own cars (namely looking cool on insta in my recent experiance). Who wants to be in a club of people who see things totally differently to you? Who wants to be a a club who wants to change to appeal to people who see things totally different to you!?
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Last Edit: Aug 19, 2020 9:34:34 GMT by slater
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duncanmartin
Club Retro Rides Member
Out of retro ownership
Posts: 1,320
Club RR Member Number: 70
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I tend to join clubs (especially the single model ones) as a source of knowledge. The forum is the key to the whole experience as far as I'm concerned - if the forum is lively and helpful (regardless of what you are trying to do), then there's value there for me. It also keeps the focus on the cars and avoids the demographic problems because the information is the key, not who is saying it. If the forum is basically dead, and meetings/magazines are what they focus on, then I'll probably find it hard to get enthused, especially if there's a wide range of cars. Migrating the forum to facebook is utterly rubbish - there's almost no way of finding old information so the same questions get asked over and over, and you never see the progression that cars make over time.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I’m pretty sure retro rides was originally incepted as an antidote to the type of single Make/marque Clubs mentioned here.
Back in the early 2000s, and the early days of clubs being on the internet (and the boom years for forums) There was strong, propagated inter-club and inter-marque Rivalry. Minis vs beetles, hotrodders hating both for overrunning their shows with beat up not-very-old tat, etc.
It was also a safe haven for all the ‘refugees’ from single marque clubs that were ostracised for daring to modify stuff.
The retro rides approach was a refreshing change at the time.
Most most ‘formal’ car clubs, especially single make/marque are AIDS and deserve to die. They’re full of the sort nasty people who I spend most of my life trying to avoid anyway, and unfortunately it’s largely due to age and demographic. Privileged old white men Who are racist, homophobic, sexist and hate anyone under 40. By the time you throw in the rivet counters who are aghast at modifications and the single-marque bores who will argue all night their mediocre (or downright cr4p) car is better than everything else ever produced, and being an ‘official club member’ is a pretty good barometer for me not wanting to associate with someone....
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Aug 19, 2020 10:32:05 GMT
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Aug 19, 2020 10:34:47 GMT
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I too am young for a retro and classic enthusiast and i must admit i agree with many of your points. I think maybe people simply do not like the idea of one make clubs anymore, frankly its a pretty tedious affair and variety is the spice of life right? I also agree with your mention of any clubs being either hard to join in the first place or making you feel out of place when you do join. I havn't joined many normal clubs however i have been a part of several MSUk motorpsort clubs. These mainly run by people who base their ethics and regualtions on british society from the 60's and they simply expect you to know club ettiquette etc. They tend to be very clicky tight knit groups and it really puts me off. As they are run by mainly men in their 70's they have no clue at all how to promote their club properly using modern day media sources and then wonder why they are getting no new members. Ive even offered to help market other local clibs before but they are rarely interested. We had a horrible experience last year at the Goodwood classic car show that we had booked a club stand with some impressive 80's and 90's machinery. But upon arrivng at the gate the old boy sat there despite us having clubstand tickets claimed our cars were not up to standard and we should park in public parking, needless to say we ignored him but the idea of arriving to a paid event to be told you arent really welcome was terrible, this is the mind set some of the clubs staff have around the UK. I had a solution to all this. I disliked both the way MSUK club ran and the idiotic car groups you get hanging around asda on a sunday that my generation seemed to produce endlessly. I wanted a group that had a variety of good cars that were interested in performance and took responsibility for themselves.....so i started my own. Its worth noting that i felt that RR is the only other club or group of people i have ever felt at home with at an event and that the majority have the same ethos as me when it comes to cars and the culture. I formed Slip&Grip Automotive Feb 2016 and my aim was to offer a place for performance and track car enthusiasts to get together both online and at events. We now provide upto 15 on track events every year with the odd gathering as well and we are well know for a great atmosphere and awesome mix of cars. It works because everyone has similar interests and we have effectively created our own sub culture of track and performance focused cars from all manufacturers ad eras. The art of gaining more interest from younger car enthusiasts is very simple and its free..... Social media!! In just 4 years i have focused most of my marketing on Facebook and Instagram. Id say over 60% of my customers (members) are under 30 and many of them have more than one car to choose from. We created an FB members group alongside our website and business page so that members can interact with each other and share builds and experiences and this had helped develop the sub culture we have. Our members group is now over 6000 stong and we have nearly 15,000 social media followers, very few clubs in the UK can say that. Our club got so popular and we are running so many events its now a limited company and a lifestyle business. I do it becuase I'm passionate about cars and motorsport. There is really nothing like having 50 cars turn up to a trackday that you organised. Clubs are about connecting people and to think you are helping local business' get work from your members or allowing people to drive a track on the limit instead of the road that means I'm doing it right. If club owners or managers don't have that passion or have lost it then the club is unlikely to improve. Good soical media precence is absolutely key to getting more interest. We share videos from our events, interesting news, images from events and write ups on tech and members cars as well. We also really engourage our memebrs to share their stroies and gongs on which crates a really vibrant space on our members groups. One other important thing is we don't tolerate stupidity online or at our events. filtering idiots from our events and groups means we get a great selection of friendly people from all walks of life. If you don't like or stick to ur on or off track rules which ivolve respecting other members and our staff you get the ban hammer online and a ban from all events. Life is far to short to deal with those sorts of people all the time. Thats my insight into 16 years of car clubs and 4 years of running one anyway       |
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Aug 19, 2020 10:35:02 GMT
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I take as I find, age, class and creed be damned.
Simply being middle class, middle aged/retired and white doesn't make anyone a 'phobe' or an 'ist' of any kind. Equally, I frequently find young people wanting to push diversity (and older people wanting to push it on their behalf) are the most intolerant and culturally exclusive people of all.
My experience of 'scenes' in the 90s was not great, they were judgemental, elitist and pushed whatever fashion was prevalent as the wind blew (and some of it looked gash, bonnet bras ... come on) and these boys came from pretty much every ethnic and cultural background in my experience. Being diverse doesn't reduce the ****head ratio.
This forum is the antidote to all that. It's one of the few remaining online spaces where you just come along to enjoy cars, car related tat and not have morality rammed into every available orifice. Nobody here, as far as I can tell, gives a hoot who you are or where you come from as long as you love old cars. So let's not descend into the current conversational trends and intolerances, or start aiming inaccurate, sweeping generalisations at easy and fashionable targets like middle aged white folks.
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scmick
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,494
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Aug 19, 2020 10:42:12 GMT
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I edit the magazine having done so since '97, act as press officer, competition and modifications advisor and various other things for SIMCA Club UK. Our membership is currently holding up well, even slightly increasing. The point about an ageing membership is valid, especially when it comes to manning the stand at NEC shows. I'm 73 and like to think I've never 'grown up' whatever that is. For the club mag I try (and from feedback succeed) in striking the balance between total originality and modified (my shade of interest), taking in the motorsport side of things. We even do this with our stands at the two NEC shows each year (in normal times)... Guy & Stuart who run our stand at the November show are more into originality and display cars fitting that bill. For the March 'Restoration Show' which I run along with brother Kev and his wife Lesley we take the other approach and openly invite the 'anything goes' modified side of the club. This really seems to work. On attracting younger members, One of our more recent additions was a real result. The rolling shell of one of my past racing SIMCA 1000s came up on ebay as a wreck, having passed through the hands of various 'dreamers' better at dismantling than putting anything back together. It was bought cheaply by a local 30 year old who I used to teach (I'm a retired Junior School teacher)when he was 10 years old. Apparently he'd hankered after a SIMCA 1000 since he saw the ones I used to turn up to school in. Surely that adds up to being a positive influence in RR terms..!! He's also now in the right trade for old French car ownership... a welder. (he's also got a mk1 Escort even more in need of his skills.) He really wanted a more roadgoing SIMCA 1000 so I did him a swap for one I'd got 'in stock'.. so the old racer has come back home and will be rebuilt and he's well on with building a modified SIMCA 1000. As for membership fees, the biggest expense for our club is the printing of our magazine. Members receiving their mag that way pay more. Many choose to receive it in PDF by email at a cheaper rate. ... some opt for both formats. Overseas members join for the cheaper rate as they only have the option of PDF. While seen as competition for clubs, I regularly refer to posts, build threads on RR and facebook groups in my writings in the mag. When each issue of the mag is out, I put the pictures from the front and back covers and odd 'headlines' from articles on the SIMCA, Talbot etc UK facebook group to entice possible members who only go on there. It's worked with a few new members. Also, while we don't have a club spares scheme as such, I've built up a large stock of parts and make it clear I do a good discount for club members while still covering my costs. Photo... my old racer come home to roost and eventually a rebuild from Its current 'Fred Flintstone' state.  |
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Last Edit: Aug 19, 2020 10:44:05 GMT by scmick
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Aug 19, 2020 11:18:04 GMT
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I take as I find, age, class and creed be damned. Simply being middle class, middle aged/retired and white doesn't make anyone a 'phobe' or an 'ist' of any kind. Equally, I frequently find young people wanting to push diversity (and older people wanting to push it on their behalf) are the most intolerant and culturally exclusive people of all. My experience of 'scenes' in the 90s was not great, they were judgemental, elitist and pushed whatever fashion was prevalent as the wind blew (and some of it looked gash, bonnet bras ... come on) and these boys came from pretty much every ethnic and cultural background in my experience. Being diverse doesn't reduce the ****head ratio. This forum is the antidote to all that. It's one of the few remaining online spaces where you just come along to enjoy cars, car related tat and not have morality rammed into every available orifice. Nobody here, as far as I can tell, gives a hoot who you are or where you come from as long as you love old cars. So let's not descend into the current conversational trends, intolerances and inaccurate, sweeping statements aimed at easy targets. Mmm, I agree apart from that I actually find RR quite intolerant at times. In my experiance it's a bit of a leftie haven. I've had quite a bit of abuse from people off here over the years adding me on facebook and what not then going crazy when they realise I'm not ultra PC or a crazy marxist. It has put me off this community quite a bit over the years. Not because of peoples views such but because of the abuse I've had from some people off here, you don't nessicarly feel welcome to show up to events and what not even if most people are civil if not in total agreement with you. Very tolorent of different car makes and styles but no so much people and thier 'diversity' imo. |
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Aug 19, 2020 11:35:54 GMT
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I take as I find, age, class and creed be damned. Simply being middle class, middle aged/retired and white doesn't make anyone a 'phobe' or an 'ist' of any kind. Equally, I frequently find young people wanting to push diversity (and older people wanting to push it on their behalf) are the most intolerant and culturally exclusive people of all. My experience of 'scenes' in the 90s was not great, they were judgemental, elitist and pushed whatever fashion was prevalent as the wind blew (and some of it looked gash, bonnet bras ... come on) and these boys came from pretty much every ethnic and cultural background in my experience. Being diverse doesn't reduce the ****head ratio. This forum is the antidote to all that. It's one of the few remaining online spaces where you just come along to enjoy cars, car related tat and not have morality rammed into every available orifice. Nobody here, as far as I can tell, gives a hoot who you are or where you come from as long as you love old cars. So let's not descend into the current conversational trends, intolerances and inaccurate, sweeping statements aimed at easy targets. Mmm, I agree apart from that I actually find RR quite intolerant at times. In my experiance it's a bit of a leftie haven. I've had quite a bit of abuse from people off here over the years adding me on facebook and what not then going crazy when they realise I'm not ultra PC or a crazy marxist. It has put me off this community quite a bit over the years. Not because of peoples views such but because of the abuse I've had from some people off here, you don't nessicarly feel welcome to show up to events and what not even if most people are civil if not in total agreement with you. Very tolorent of different car makes and styles but no so much people and thier 'diversity' imo. That's interesting. It's not something I've noticed but then I don't know anyone here, I don't use social media like Facebook at all and conversations about topics like this are, blissfully, almost non-existent on the forum itself. It's one of the reasons I like this place, it's the only 'community' that I frequent at all for that very reason. I just come here for the cars. I find that diversity is always a good thing in the modern world ... until it comes to tolerating or accepting groups or opinions that don't conform to the 'acceptable' and entirely subjective world views and agendas of those pushing their overly simplistic interpretation of what is morally correct on everyone else. Social media like Facebook and, worse still, Twitter are a toxic hell hole for that sort of intellectual self flagellation and/or moral superiority, so I just avoid it. Silence is golden. |
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Aug 19, 2020 11:38:25 GMT
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Mmm, I agree apart from that I actually find RR quite intolerant at times. In my experiance it's a bit of a leftie haven. I've had quite a bit of abuse from people off here over the years adding me on facebook Maybe they added you because they respected your builds, and then found out you are not at all the sort of person they thought you'd be and are stunningly disappointed (others of us have known you long enough to not be surprised). This is definitely a danger when connecting with people in the real world, in clubs etc. You might find that the car you like is predominately owned super liberal lefties, when you are entirely opposite that. Or you might find that someone you joined the club to meet up with is a massive racist or something. Mostly it should be about the shared enjoyment of the car and structured to make sure that is the case*. Note in Adam's example it is on facebook, where any old simpleton can write political screeds with a total lack of self awareness or real understanding, which definitely invites robust discussion in that area, which is why I try and keep politics off of here. *except for the massive racist, those guys can go to hell. |
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Aug 19, 2020 11:40:16 GMT
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Why do they care about appealing to young people in the first place? 'Owners clubs' have never appealed to young people for all the obvious reasons. They are for old men who like old cars how old men like them. They should concentrate on appealing to thier demographic. Young people have thier own clubs. Somtimes one make somtimes not but based around the reasons they want to own cars (namely looking cool on insta in my recent experiance). Who wants to be in a club of people who see things totally differently to you? Who wants to be a a club who wants to change to appeal to people who see things totally different to you!? Echo chambers are boring though. If I wanted to socialise with people with people just like me from the same social background and similar opinions I could stay at home and talk to myself. I'm not a member of any car club but I am a member of other social groups (arty crafty stuff) and one of the reasons I joined them was to meet people different to myself - ages, gender, social background etc and now have friends in their 20s to 70s, united by common interests but ready to accept diverse opinions and approaches to our hobby. My outsider's view of car clubs is that they can be very judgemental of people who aren't as deeply into their type of cars as they are or those who they believe are interested in the cars for the "wrong" reasons, like looking good on social media - is that any different to polishing your car for trophies on a showfield? |
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Aug 19, 2020 11:45:23 GMT
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Mmm, I agree apart from that I actually find RR quite intolerant at times. In my experiance it's a bit of a leftie haven. I've had quite a bit of abuse from people off here over the years adding me on facebook Maybe they added you because they respected your builds, and then found out you are not at all the sort of person they thought you'd be and are stunningly disappointed (others of us have known you long enough to not be surprised). This is definitely a danger when connecting with people in the real world, in clubs etc. You might find that the car you like is predominately owned super liberal lefties, when you are entirely opposite that. Or you might find that someone you joined the club to meet up with is a massive racist or something. Mostly it should be about the shared enjoyment of the car and structured to make sure that is the case*. Note in Adam's example it is on facebook, where any old simpleton can write political screeds with a total lack of self awareness or real understanding, which definitely invites robust discussion in that area, which is why I try and keep politics off of here. *except for the massive racist, those guys can go to hell. That's part of the problem, people exist in many cases in a very narrow intellectual sphere where they only engage with others of the same view (good old social media and its algorithms) so they are both shocked and incapable of dealing with the disappointment of finding out that their 'friend' isn't a foaming Marxist, just someone else who happens to have an interest in 70s velour seats or something. There is now an assumption on the part of a lot of social media dwellers that obviously the rest of humanity has their exact world view, after all their Twitter clique is so diverse and they all agree. I find, mainly with younger and more metropolitan types, that they are utterly incapable of dealing with differing opinions or any kind of intellectual confrontation, so just throw an 'ist' or 'phobe' hand grenade into the conversation as that's all they have in their arsenal. It's a societal problem that needs addressing, quickly. |
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Probably why I now own cars from 4 countries, 5 manufacturers across 2 continents. Seeing something old and interesting on the roads will make me smile no matter what it is!
