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Jul 14, 2017 22:39:53 GMT
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Edit (12.12.2023) - Just to give some closure to this thread, I sold this car back in 2019 sometime. Work meant that I just didn't have the time to work on it. Sadly I sold it just before prices exploded for JDM stuff, but never mind.
I've been lurking around these forums for a number of years and decided I should probably get around to sharing my own little project. She's a 1988 NA RX7 that I spotted on eBay around September time last year as a garage stored none runner, at the time I'd been working on the FTO and didn't really have time for another project, but I ended up going 'just for a look' and after some negotiation I ended up buying her for £600, which I reckon was a bit of a bargain. The plan is to initially bring her back to great standard condition, and from that point onwards start making improvements after I've been driving it a bit. But first I'll go over what I've done so far. I got a haulage quote and had her trucked back home, the first thing I did was get out the camera and document the starting point. Been a while since it was on teh ro The overall exterior condition wasn't that bad, there's a few tiny bits of rust, but its all surface, no cancer. And amazingly underneath its the same story, very little rust on the shell itself, I don't want to jinx things, but I really think I might be able to avoid welding altogether. I believe the car had been in the garage for around 16 years, and it shows. The interior definitely needs work though, the PO had lost the key, so they ripped up the ignition in order to try and get the car started (unsuccessfully) in order to sell it. My first goal was to see if I could get the engine running, it definitely needs to come out, its in a state, all the hoses are cracking and disintegrating, and I need to pressure test it because every time I fill it up with coolant it goes 'somewhere'. But if I can avoid an engine rebuild for the moment and just clean it up and renew the hoses, pipes etc that's what I'll do and rebuild in the future once I'm clearer on the direction I want to take. Some initial testing showed that there was basically zero flow of fuel at the filter, so I suspected the fuel pump. Which meant taking off the access hatch in the tank. Fairly obvious what the problem is here! I did a short term fix by using a rust dissolving solution from Fernox and got a replacement fuel pump from eBay. Put the tank back in, hooked everything up... same result. Car turned over but would't start, next stop was the injectors. Turned out to be a good call, as all four injectors were completely blocked! Also the fuel rail itself was full of crud. Injectors cleaned, fuel rail unclogged, hooked it all back up and it actually fired up instantly! I couldn't get it to idle as I had a lot of vacuum leaks, and it was drinking water as fast as I could pour it in, but at least it started. I'm resigned to stripping down the engine now, so it remains to be seen what the actual internal condition is like. This posts getting a bit long, so I'll finish up in another one.
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Jul 14, 2017 22:55:38 GMT
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So moving forward, my basic plan goes something like this: - Remove Engine - Strip Interior - Strip drivetrain and suspension - Thorough inspection of underside of car. - Completely underseal car . - Paint up subframe, wishbones etc etc and refit - Clean and touch up paint in bay - Rebuild engine - Refit engine - Refit interior Problems I've found so far, though I'm sure there'll be lots more. - Falling off bumper trim - Engine to rebuild - Fuel tank to seal - Interior looks grey and tacky, needs retrimming and dashboard plastics painting black - New radiator - Sunroof only works manually, lots of friction - Headlights don't pop up or down - Heater blower motor doesn't work Its quite a daunting list so I better get moving. Starting to strip bits out: Underside looks fairly OK. Gear oil looked pretty manky, and as the above pictures I need a new shifter boot. This pretty much brings me up to where I am. I've stripped out the front and rear seats today, and stripped the relief air pipe from the exhaust. I'll be ditching the air pump anyway so its not required.
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Jul 14, 2017 23:38:04 GMT
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this is a cool project, like these cars a lot (especially in red) so am looking forward to seeing how it goes!
Cheers, Drew
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2001 Mk4 Golf - Not retro yet but getting there
Some cars I've owned: '91 Renault Clio 1.4 RT '96 Peugeot 306 2.0 XSi (the one that got away) '96 Vauxhall Astra Euro'96 Gold edition '97 Renault Laguna 2.0 RT '98 Mk3 Golf GTI Colour Concept '00 PT Cruiser
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fer4l
Posted a lot
Testing
Posts: 1,497
Club RR Member Number: 73
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Bring it on - awesome car! Cheers Matt
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willg
Part of things
Posts: 163
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Jul 15, 2017 13:24:58 GMT
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Very cool project, I'm desperate to get an FC next, what a steal this was! Following
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Retro is best!
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,865
Club RR Member Number: 58
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Jul 15, 2017 15:02:30 GMT
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Nice save! I've also got an FC which I'm just about to return to the road so interested to see how you get on with yours Are you planning any mods at all as well as getting it back on the road?
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Jul 15, 2017 18:24:55 GMT
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Ahhhhh... you went and pulled it to bits. I got as far as the end of the first post and was about to say "while it's running do the champagne test..." when you ripped it to bits two photos from the end of post two
Maybe I should expand on that; did you find where the water was going to? Because if it's not pouring out of an obvious leak then the odds are the internal water seals in the engine are gone. (Sorry if I'm teaching to suck eggs here) Rotary water seals are basically a huge O-ring that seals each segment plate/housing/plate of the engine. If the car stands for a long time, they water seals corrode and fail usually at the bottom of the housing where coolant pools. It seeps into the oil pan - which judging by that coagulant, you have in spades - but the easiest way to prove it without taking the engine apart is the champagne test.
Simply cut the bottom off a 2-litre plastic coke bottle (other E-number riddled carbonated beverages are available but none have such a strong association with righteous car body design) and insert neck-down into the engine filler neck. Tape the neck up with gaffer to seal it to the bottle, then fill a bit with coolant so you can see it through the side of the bottle. Run the engine; if the engine has water seal failure then you will get manic tiny bubbles developing in the coolant as exhaust gas finds its way through the failed seals and pressurises the coolant.
Bit too late for yours now. Sad to say, it's a classic problem with idle rotaries, which is why so many rolled off the boat from Japanese auctions, sat unregistered for ages and then became incontinent as soon as they were started. Still, you've done well to find an FC without rust, usually they rot like sushi in the sun
EDIT to say if it has profound long-standing water seal failure, the likelihood is the plates and more likely (becos alloy) the housings may well be borked through corrosion. Hope not, they're getting rare, decent housings
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Last Edit: Jul 15, 2017 18:27:05 GMT by luckyseven
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Jul 15, 2017 19:52:25 GMT
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Cheers for the comments guys. Adam73. - Yes it will be modded, but for the moment I want go experience it in 'standard' form in order to judge what to do, what I want to change, what I want to keep the same etc. I will definitely need more than 150hp, so tuning is on the cards, but I want to avoid porting. I'll either go turbo, or throttle bodies. With a good exhaust and a good throttle body setup I'm hoping it could crack 200hp, again this is all in the future. I'll definitely be going stand alone, for better economy, running and tuning potential. I have loads of ideas, but I'd rather wait and see for the moment. luckyseven. I'm 99% convinced that the coolant seals have gone. And I'm now committing myself to an engine rip apart, if only for peace of mind. And future proofing for any tuning I intend to do. The cooling system was dry when I bought the car, and I'm pretty sure some of it got into the combustion chamber because when she fired up I got clouds of white smoke everywhere. Although the fact she fired instantly with trying bodes well (I think!). My BAC valve coolant fittings are fubar (corroded and clogged, it literally broke apart when I pulled the hose off) and I had a few big hose leaks when I ran the engine, I was literally having to add coolant as the engine was running! Either way, I'm ripping it apart. As for the water in the oil, that picture is from the gearbox, not the engine. Anyways, today's progress, I'm on shift at work for the next few weeks, so I only get a couple of hours in the afternoon before I start my shift, so progress will be slow and steady. First in the crosshairs was the starter motor. Its odd, there's more corrosion in the engine bay then under the car, not complaining mind. Next on the agenda, gearbox. Amazingly all the bolts came out with no fuss and literally within 20 minutes the gearbox was on the floor. I made a start on clearing 95,000 worth of grime and grot out of the bell housing and off the box. It looks a bit cleaner, but my alloy wheel brush is now ruined. To be continued at a later date. Also with the gearbox I need to replace the shift return spring as it doesn't return to the centre from 1-2, while its out I'll replace the shifter bushings, the rubber boot (which was FUBAR) and input shaft seal. Luckily I think the clutch should be fine, release bearing felt brand new and I have a receipt for the fitting of a new clutch a few months before the car was mothballed. (One of only 2 receipts that I have) With the box out I used some orange line to hold the engine from rocking and straining the mounts. My engine crane arrives on monday so it's staying in until then. And finally I got on with stripping the interior. Seats and rear seats are out, no rot underneath those at least! Glove box is also out, I need to remove the dash to take out the carpet. (And also just to clean everything up) But I'm stuck with the steering wheel. Getting the nut off alone was a mission, but even with it off, I couldn't get off the wheel no matter how much I pulled it, hit it and yanked it. Might have to try and and adapt a gear puller to work on it. And that's all in todays thrilling instalment.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:56:36 GMT
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Nice project. Looking forward to following this. Always fancied having a go at a rotary rebuild.
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sb
Part of things
Posts: 725
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Jul 16, 2017 13:10:08 GMT
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Hey another fellow FC owner here, welcome to the club.
For the headlights is your battery still healthy? I know on mine when the battery was getting tired one stopped popping up. Although now mine don't pop up at the same time!
Good luck with the engine but why don't you want to port it? If I had an NA I think I would go for an aggressive bridge port and ITBs.
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Jul 16, 2017 14:02:53 GMT
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Bridge ports are horrible on the road though. And embarrassing cos everyone thinks your car's broken as it shudders and lurches and needs 6000rpm to pull away at every set of traffic lights
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Jul 16, 2017 14:07:18 GMT
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Its not the battery, the car didn't come with one so I put a new fully charged one on. I wound down the left hand one by hand, but the right hand one is well and truly stuck.
I don't want to port it because: - It reduces the life of the engine. - Is horrible to drive on the road. (I intend this to be my daily eventually) - Kills the fuel economy - From reading, with a decent setup and a modern turbo. 350 hp is quite achievable. Which is certainly as much as I'll ever need from this car.
Luckyseven, my thoughts as well.
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jayom
Part of things
Posts: 258
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Jul 16, 2017 14:07:48 GMT
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Bridge ports are horrible on the road though. And embarrassing cos everyone thinks your car's broken as it shudders and lurches and needs 6000rpm to pull away at every set of traffic lights But the sound!
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sb
Part of things
Posts: 725
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Jul 16, 2017 14:10:14 GMT
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Bridge ports are horrible on the road though. And embarrassing cos everyone thinks your car's broken as it shudders and lurches and needs 6000rpm to pull away at every set of traffic lights But the sound! My thoughts exactly lol. It's a rotary, aiming for reliability and fuel economy is already out of the window.
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Jul 16, 2017 14:30:56 GMT
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I have youtube for the sound! I've had plenty of loud obnoxious exhausts and cars in the past, the sound great when flat out. The rest of the time its embarrassing!
sb. That's such a common thing to hear on forums, remember I plan to use this as a daily. And if I can make the power I want without killing the fuel economy then why would I? Bridgeporting a car and making it hard to drive day to day and get terrible fuel economy to achieve the power I could manage without doing it seems a bit silly to me. 'Because Rotary' isn't a good enough reason for me!
If it was a track car, or simply something I brought out a couple of times a month I'd consider it.
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sb
Part of things
Posts: 725
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Jul 16, 2017 15:04:02 GMT
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I have youtube for the sound! I've had plenty of loud obnoxious exhausts and cars in the past, the sound great when flat out. The rest of the time its embarrassing! sb. That's such a common thing to hear on forums, remember I plan to use this as a daily. And if I can make the power I want without killing the fuel economy then why would I? Bridgeporting a car and making it hard to drive day to day and get terrible fuel economy to achieve the power I could manage without doing it seems a bit silly to me. 'Because Rotary' isn't a good enough reason for me! If it was a track car, or simply something I brought out a couple of times a month I'd consider it. Thats fair enough, your car and I'm not going to attack someone for doing what they want with their own car! Mines just a toy so I don't mind how annoying to drive and abrasive it is to the ears, I'm sick of my comfortable daily. Plus I'm mostly jealous of the lack of rust. You got a far better base than I have!
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Jul 16, 2017 17:18:33 GMT
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Honestly I'm blown away by the condition of the shell.
The only rust I seem to have is the rear sub frame and suspension (and I'll be coating them), one of the brackets holding on the front black bumper trim has rusted through. And a small bit of surface corrosion in the engine bay.
I'm thankful for caring previous owners and 20 years in a garage.
I had planned just to renew the underbody wax. But I'm thinking now of stripping it all off and coating with epoxy mastic.
P.s. It may not be bridgeport, but it certainly won't be a 'boring' daily!
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Jul 19, 2017 19:10:59 GMT
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Not many updates as its hard to fit working on the car in with a 12 hour night shift. My engine crane finally arrived, £115 off eBay, seems reasonably well built. Better than I expected for the money, there's a few upgrades I could do with making to it, drop nose pins for the jib to make it easier to use, but on the whole fine for the job. Enlisted a friend to help me swing it clear. With the engine out of the car, my next job is to document everything in the engine bay with pictures so I can see how it all goes back together! Then drop out the rack / subframe / diff /suspension. Get the chassis as high as I can and start cracking on with stripping back and undersealing it. I also need to workout how best to mount the rotary onto my engine stand and get started on tearing it down.
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ian65
Part of things
Posts: 276
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Jul 19, 2017 20:24:51 GMT
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That looks a nice straight car and a good project you have there... look forward to following this thread. To mount a rotary engine onto an engine stand I made an adapter out of steel angle... www.rx7fb.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2174&start=270works great and shifts the centre of gravity just right to let me spin the engine around easily. Make sure you crack the front pulley nut and fly nut first though.... they are tight as. If you are looking for power gains don't disregard a big carb setup on a 13b..... the stock n/a 13b FC engine is stock compression so you will have to limit any boost you put into it with a turbo and to go to ITB's, you'll need a standalone ECU.... once you take the rats nest off the car the stock ecu will go into meltdown..... you probably already know this though.
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Last Edit: Jul 20, 2017 19:57:39 GMT by ian65
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Jul 19, 2017 20:47:02 GMT
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Thanks, I'll check it out, always good to make something instead of paying for it!
Regarding Turbo'ing, my understanding is that with todays much better ECU its possible to run a decent setup on the higher compression NA engine. Aaaron Cakes 'Project Tina' is a running well over 450hp on a bridge port engine that's high compression and he's had that thing a long time now, the most I want is probably 350 which I hope I could get reliably. Of course if a decent turbo engine came up I'd be tempted to transplant.
For the moment I'm hoping to just get it to great standing running condition sans the air pump, afterburn and ACV. I'll leave in the rest of the rats nest that controls the 6 port actuators etc. Do you this will cause running issues?
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