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Heres my 1990 Honda Civic, I bought it a couple of months back with the intention of keeping it as a bit of a fun car. Many years ago I spent ages looking for an EE9 VT version of this car, but they were all either rusting to nothing, or silly money. Fast forward over a decade, and there are now some quite well looked after or restored examples about, impulsively I put out some feelers on the 4GUK Facebook group, and before I knew it, I had somehow purchasd this rather lovely ED7 Civic. 
Over the years the previous owner had it, he spent thousands in new sills, arches and a-pillar rust repairs, he resprayed it home (quite a good job), and did some modifications, some I liked, some not so much.
But it was definetely the cleanest one I'd seen, so I set off down to London to pick it up.
The 'specs' as bought were:
- Stock D16A9 engine - making 136hp with a dyno chart to prove - Clifford Concept 650 immobiliser & alarm
- The JDM wing that I should hate, but actually quite like.
- Japspeed 4-2-1 mani - Tanabe Medallion Touring exhaust - 16" Enkei Wheels
- BC BR Coilovers - Suspension mostly poly bushed with suspension arms painted
- Innovative engine mounts (polyeurethane)
- New windscreen, seals, windows trims where available. - New fuel tank & pump
Couple of downsides:
- BIG clunk when engaging the clutch, more of a bang really, shook the whole car. Noticeable all the way up to 3rd gear
- Idle way too high (like 1800rpm) - Head liner was out, but damaged and broken
- The rattles bangs and squeaks that old cars all seem to have
The drive home was thankfully uneventful, other than having to baby the gearbox due to the aforementioned clunk, but I soon decided the coilovers had to go. I was able to soften the damping, but they were so stiff that on some bumps, my head literally hit the roof of the car!
Anyway, here she was sat on the driveway.
 
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The first thing I tried to sort the gearbox bang, was the engine and gearbox mounts. Now I didn't really expect this to fix it, but I had a set of OEM mounts & the Innovative poly ones made the whole car vibrate when the engine was running. Very 'race car' but not my preference for something that I had to drive in place other than the track! No photos of this, but it was a royal PITA to get to all the bolts with the engine still in place.
As predicted this didn't fix it, but it did make the engine much quieter.
To cut a long story, short, I decided that the play must be coming from the differential.
After dropping the gearbox & stripping it, the problem was evident:  
Diff pin completely munched, moreover, the swarf had circulated the box & all the bearings felt rough.
Parts were available for the bearings, but the diff was not as easy to find.
In the end I took a punt on an untried gearbox for £90.
Fortunately this turned out to be in decent condition, and after the laborious process of refitting, I had a useable transmission again.
I really do like the feel of these old school Honda gearboxes.
They are very direct, & while 136hp is quite anaemic these days, the short ratios mean that you can keep up with traffic easily enough.
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During this time I had fixed the idle issue. It was a combination of a bad and poorly adjusted throttle position sensor, and the idle screw needed tweaking.
Its not perfect, but its close. I don't have an external RPM gauge, which makes it hard to setup accurately, the stock guage is not very accurate at all below 1k rpm.
As it stood, the car rattled my teeth over every bump and piece of gravel. The spring rates were 10kg/mm at the front and 5kg/mm at the rear, this setup was also prone to some understeer as you really need a much closer spring rate between front and rear in these old Hondas.
I dithered for a whle about the best setup to go forward with, its a road car that wanted to take to the track sometimes.
I've always been a fan of the fast road, firm but complient setups that are found on cars like the Accord Type R, older BMWs etc.
That's the end goal, but it may take a while to get there, aftermarket stuff seems to either be very stiff, or very low.
I settled on some Eibach pro springs, which are a 20mm drop over stock (about the same as the Coilovers already on), these cars are normally so high that a 20mm drop doesn't look particularly low. Matched with some KYB AGX adjustable shocks.
They only have 4 settings and its just rebound I believe, but it doesn't make a difference.
 
The pic above is a bit misleading, as the new shock combo has yet to be compressed.
To match up with this I decided to fit Hard Race front and rear arms.
These use a solid rubber bush, so you get more NVH and less compliance than you would with stock bushes, but they are far less crashy than polybushes.
Even better, they don't squeak!
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Aug 15, 2023 18:11:14 GMT
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After sorting out the suspension, it was time for a trip to Cadwell to test it all out. I had ordered a set of Yellow Stuff pads to go in from MTEC Brakes, unfortunately 'In Stock' actually mean't not in stock & fufilled by someone else. They even sent me an email to say that they had been despatched, but nothing showed up. I got a refund, but that's not much good with a track day 2 days away, so I chucked the new Green Stuffs that came with it on & hoped for the best.
  
As you can see the light was pretty good for the shots, and I had a great day.
But I can categorically say that Green Stuff pads combined with 247mm discs are not adequate for track days, even in a car as light as this one!
 
I definately need better brakes, I couldn't even really drive more than one lap how I would like too, after that an LSD would be useful to get the power down, more power so that I'm not a sitting duck on the straights. Oh a proper sports seat (my leg was bruised from bracing against the g-forces!), maybe a stiffer anti-roll bar, yeah this could get expensive very quickly!
First off though, I need to fix a few issues with the car, the track day seems to have caused the fuel pump some trouble, its making really odd noises now, so I've ordered a replacment Hitachi one (fuel pump is not an area to skimp IMO) with a new sock, the tank is new, so I don't think the issue will be related to debris.
I'll also give the engine a proper tune up, plugs, timing, valve clearances (if adjustable - need to check), oil etc.
There also seems to be the tiniest bit of play in the steering wheel now, but in and out, not side to side, so that needs looking at. Hanging off the wheel to compensate for the lack of a bucket seat probably didn't help.
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The last post pretty much brings us up to where I am now, and to the title of the thread. I've got this crazy idea of selling my lovely, comfortable, practical, quiet, and fast 335i touring and keeping just a 33 years old Japanese hatchback as a daily instead. Honestly, I've no idea why I get these stupid ideas from. But it would be nice to get rid of a car, the RX7 is still a constant money sink, so I can't really justify another car outside my daily. With that said, there are a fair few jobs I need to get out the way first. I tried to organise them, based on what I need now, mid term jobs, and eventual.
Sorry for the picture fans, this will be a wall of text, giving my thoughts.
Essential
- Replace the fuel pump & sock - Check tank for debris
- Full service & tune up, plugs, oil, filters, timing, idle, valve clearance, etc.
- Replace the suede steering wheel with a leather one.
- Headliner - it doesnt' have one right now, and the old one is in pieces. I'll put some sound deadening on the roof first
- Check / Retorque suspension bolts. - After fitting new pieces & a track day, for peace of mind, I'll go over it all again.
- Fit central locking - Modern cars have made me lazy!
- Replace the exhaust hangers. They're in good condition, but the rears are too short & the back box knocks against the boot.
The steering wheel I got cheap off eBay, Cheap special, the suede dye comes off on my hands when driving!. I just wanted to make sure it was a good position, being tall, I need something that clears my knees and gives me a good position. Now I know that it works, I can replace it with a good quality part.
The head liner could be an issue, its basically impossible to find one in good condition. The foam has gone brittle, so they break into pieces, and its a moulded shape, so not the easiest to just replace. My tentative plan right now, is to use the pieces of what I have left to make a mold & then try and make a glass fibre panel, this can be trimmed to shape & covered with headliner material.
Mid-Term
These are the jobs I would like to do, but I could live without them for the time being, think quality of life & restoration.
- Refit the mud flaps
- Brake & Master Cylinder upgrade
- Replace the front upper control arms (existing ones are still polybushed & squeak) - maybe with camber adjustable ones.
- A cup holder - This is one of those things that you don't know you need, until you don't have it!
- Centre arm rest - Apparently there are rover ones that can fit quite easily.
- Sound deadening. - This car rattles and amplifies sounds like nothing else. I'm not after tomb like silence. But I can certainly sacrifice a few kg' of weight in order to make it a pleasant place to be
- Better seats - I nearly put this one into the essential category, the standard seats are fairly comfy. But they don't hold you in well. I would like something that keeps the heritage and retro look of the car, but that will hold me while on track. Possibly some more modern Recaros from an Accord Type R, or an FN2 type R, but retrimmed.
- Replacement foot well mats. I still have OEM ones from new, but they are worn out.
Brake upgades, there are two easyish routes for this car; either the the brakes from an EP3 type R, fitted with a Corrado 280mm discs and a hub ring. OR you can can buy a kit to allow Porsche Boxter front callipers to be fitted, these pair with 300mm discs from a Works Mini Cooper, and would be my preferred option. However they don't fit under all 15" wheels, and I had considered going to 15" for the daily driver to get some more tyre wall, and keeping the 16s with some serious rubber on them for the track days.
Either option needs a master cyilnder upgrade, and the common choice is from an Integra Type R DC2 (1" Master Cylinder), unfortunately the breakers have figured this out & ask silly money, I'm looking at other options, apparently the S2000 also uses a 1" cylinder.
Eventually
Stuff I would like to do down the line, its not essential, but I want to think about it now, because it could affect choices I make today, and there's no point doubling the work.
- Make the exhaust a bit more quiet. Its not too bad, but it has a drone at motorway speed & honestly, I prefer a good sounding but subtle exhaust these days.
I think one more silence in the B-Pipe would do it
- Sound deaden the whole car, doors, quarter panels, arches etc
- Replace the carpet. - Its got that old car smell. And an aussie company offers 2 piece molded replacements
- Double din stereo / Android auto / Sound system upgrade. Not really worth it until the sound deadening is done.
- Rust-Proofing arches & underside. Its all in very good condition right now, but I notice the existing stone chip just peels off, so its not been prepped well. As it stands I won't drive this car in winter until its sorted, not when its so clearn and rust free now.
- Re-Trim rear seats / door cards etc
- Aluminium under tray for the engine, should streamline the car a bit & keep it clearner in there.
Eventually I would like to swap the engine in on it now, its currently 136hp and reasonably torquey (for a 1.6), so even today it can manage, but 136hp just isn't enough for me. Especially as I track the car someties.
Realistically, I'd probably keep it Honda so I have a few options:
B16A1/2 -150/160hp. - Actually less Torque, getting expensive as well. And still not mega fast.
B16B - 185hp - its a destroked B18, fantastic engine, from the EK9 type R. But lacking torque
B18C - 175hp or up to 200hp. More torque, more power.
K20A - 200hp (stock) - Not much to write here, everyone knows about this engine, its the gold standard.
The B16 is easiest to fit, but a bit anemic these days, the B18 and K20 both have bonnet clearance issues (and I can't live with a raised bonnet), plus the swap mounts don't use OEM Honda mounts, so can lead to some vibrations.
I need to think on this. Realistically, if I went B16 then I would have to turbo it, something like 260hp, a fast spooling turbo and a limited slip diff could make for a seriously quick little car that's still driveable & reliable.
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j4mes
Part of things
Posts: 168
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Looks lovely, I'm a sucker for an old Hond!
Did you consider an H22 for your engine swap?
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Aug 17, 2023 10:55:06 GMT
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Looks lovely, I'm a sucker for an old Hond! Did you consider an H22 for your engine swap? Thanks  Not very seriously, I owned an Accord Type R for a while. And while I loved the car, I seem to remember the engine would drop out of VTEC unless you took it to within a few rpm of the limiter before changing gear. Plus the engine is large & quite heavy, I feel like today with the K20, there are better options for the larger size engines. |
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,607
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Not much I can say but agree.
Have an EF8 CR-X Si-R, but after they finished adding weighty options I look forward to trying a lighter D16 DOHC version. Doubt the D16 would actually have more torque (even @ lower revs), but between added weight, gearing & heady torque peak of B16a I'm sure it would feel that way very obviously. Such that I returned to the torque & low gearing of my 1.6 Accord hatchback for daily use.
Never had any complaint with the gearing & power delivery of my '88 Integra D16A, but obviously priorities vary greatly between road & track where you can keep revs up where B16A excels.
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Last Edit: Aug 18, 2023 2:41:34 GMT by 79cord
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Some cars like a Mk4 Golf, I like from the day they hit the showroom floors.
These Honda hatches were always on my favourite list.
Other than all the serious fettling you are doing and future plans, it seems a lovely car, and the best colour.
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Not much I can say but agree. Have an EF8 CR-X Si-R, but after they finished adding weighty options I look forward to trying a lighter D16 DOHC version. Doubt the D16 would actually have more torque (even @ lower revs), but between added weight, gearing & heady torque peak of B16a I'm sure it would feel that way very obviously. Such that I returned to the torque & low gearing of my 1.6 Accord hatchback for daily use. Never had any complaint with the gearing & power delivery of my '88 Integra D16A, but obviously priorities vary greatly between road & track where you can keep revs up where B16A excels. Honestly, you are probably right. I did a quick google, the B16A1 makes 111 lb/ft of torque, the D16A9 makes 105. I guess its all about where it makes it, the D16A9 makes it lower down & combined with the sort gear ratios it feels quicker at the lower revs, certainly at Cadwell it was struggling at the end of the straights, and I was having to go a few hundred rpm past the redline to get the best exit in a couple of corners. It was still making power though.
I had thought about turbocharging the existing engine, the guy I normally turn to for complicated fabrication was pretty enthusiastic, but they are apparently not that strong, and I need minimum a metal multi layer head gasket & ARP studs. But even then its only good for 200hp.
I am erring towards a B16, its a legendary engine that I never got to try, takes boost well, and has no bonnet clearance issues!
The B16B would be fantastic if I kept it stock, but its a tall engine, and if you try and boost them without serious internal work, then they tend to blow up! Its a bit of a minefield really, because most the info comes from the states, and when they say reliable on track, they mean a few pulls down the drag strip, I need a car that I can smash around a circuit all day, and then drive home afterwards!
For now I'm sticking to the quality of life stuff, the polybushed upper arms squeak like nothing else over bumps, it drives me insane! I'll probably get some camber adjustable ones.
grizz - Cheers, there's something about 80s era Hatchbacks that have a cool factor for me. I've had plenty over the years, its mad to think that this was sold a shopping car, when with some decent tyres and not much power, it can hold its own on track against some pretty nice cars.
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,607
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I managed to get a set of offset adjustable front upper arm mounts. Unfortunately the generic aftermarket design of upper arms with adjustable upper ball joint mountings are often cheaper, and certainly look more impressive, but add bulk at the ball-joint so they commonly punch into the body at the limit of their travel.
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Aug 18, 2023 11:26:29 GMT
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I managed to get a set of offset adjustable front upper arm mounts. Unfortunately the generic aftermarket design of upper arms with adjustable upper ball joint mountings are often cheaper, and certainly look more impressive, but add bulk at the ball-joint so they commonly punch into the body at the limit of their travel. Are you talking about ones where the arm itself is adjustable? I quite like the look of the Skunk 2 item, it doesn't look like the ball joint should cause any interference issues. The springs I'm on only drop the car by about 1" anyway, so I'm a way off hitting the suspension on anything.
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,607
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Aug 18, 2023 22:32:38 GMT
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Yes, Honda's arms have no excess material around their ball joint so the added material used to bolt the ball joints in can interfere, though those do look like an improvement over the older designs so may be fine.
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Aug 19, 2023 16:47:12 GMT
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Yes, Honda's arms have no excess material around their ball joint so the added material used to bolt the ball joints in can interfere, though those do look like an improvement over the older designs so may be fine. Its OK, because my tyres rub on the arches before the arms can bottom out.  |
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Aug 20, 2023 22:02:28 GMT
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i own a crx also and have done the corrado/type-r brake swap, parts are pretty cheap for this and i do have it under 15" wheels (albeit a tight fit).
prices for b-series stuff is crazy now, and kswap gets pricey when you see about all the little bits and bobs required. how about turboing the d16?
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@ CRX_IN_SCOTLAND
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Aug 22, 2023 15:47:15 GMT
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i own a crx also and have done the corrado/type-r brake swap, parts are pretty cheap for this and i do have it under 15" wheels (albeit a tight fit). prices for b-series stuff is crazy now, and kswap gets pricey when you see about all the little bits and bobs required. how about turboing the d16? I thought about it, and I still am. But they aren't the sturdiest of engines apparently, I'm aiming for 260hp, which would mean forged pistons and better conrods, that kind of thing. B-Series have so much more available in the way of parts, gearboxes etc as well. |
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Sept 18, 2023 7:59:38 GMT
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Just got back from a 3 week work trip to france with a short holiday tagged on the end, so its time to get some more done on this Civic.  One thing I really noticed driving the Civic after my 1400 miles oddesey in the 335i, was the rattles, squeaks and noises. Really, it was driving me insane, I think over 30+ years, stuff just starts to work loose, foam breaks down etc. First for the low hanging fruit (famous last words), the fuel pump had been making questionable noises ever since the track day at Cadwell, since I'm running stock power, I decided to replace it with an OEM Hitachi job ( still available ). Back seats out, swap the pump... easy.... or not. Appremtly you have to drop the fuel tank... Only the level sender is accesible. So with that in mind, I decided to get some other jobs done at the same time, fix the bumper colour, fit the fog lights, have good look to make sure there is not any corrosion hiding back there.  All looks very reasonable. Unfortunately stripping the bumper off revealed some old accident damage on the inside in way of the bumper mounting area.    Not really sure what to do about that, for sure I don't want to leave a hole & the buckled areas as they are. But don't want to 'fix' it and ruin the alignment of the bumper. Any suggestions? This area pictured is crying out for some sound deadening, it sounds like a drum. My loose plan for now is with the rear completely stripped out, drive the car and fix every single rattle and squeak from the rear. Then slowly add bits of trim back in, testing each time to find out where the noise sources are. It might sound OTT, but I really hate rattles! |
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