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Aug 22, 2012 10:34:45 GMT
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Getting help from right wing organisations/parties such as the BNP or UKIP is NOT the answer. Huh??? The BNP are not right wing - if you actually look at the rest of their policies (not just the ones that everyone rightly jumps up and down about), it is very clear that they are (hard left) old Labour with racism. Contrary to what some high profile publications & organisations may try to make out, racism is far from confined to just the right wing of politics. I'm not sure this is the right (sic) place to be having this discussion, but anywhooooo. Wikipedia...... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_rightOkay some of the BNP's policies look very socialist, but the NAZI party were the..... National "SOCIALIST" German Workers' Party. Oh yes socialist lol! Just because they have socialist policies does not make them socialist or left wing.
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 10:37:28 GMT by Robinxr4i
Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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Aug 22, 2012 10:40:31 GMT
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Robin - and you point is? None of that contradicts what I wrote. Oh, and the irony of the full name of the Nazi party is well known.
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 10:46:50 GMT by Paul H
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MK2VR6
Posted a lot
Mk2 Golf GTi 90 Spec
Posts: 3,328
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Aug 22, 2012 10:41:24 GMT
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...that doesn't mean we can't attempt to stave this off - or pehaps have an exemption for currently-modified vehicles introduced. This sounds something like it. I'd jump up and down for that. Now off to Ace's link to fill in my details. On an aside, just spotted this on another car forum, which someone has linked. 8 replies to it so far, and the majority are: 'I'll never happen' 'They can't do that' 'Eu curse word is f'ing rubbish'. Looks like there's a lot of work to do here....
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Aug 22, 2012 10:41:58 GMT
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I'm all for BIVA testing where applicable. The problem I can see here is that ANY alteration would require one. So if I want to fit a set of non approved wheels (i.e. vintage ones) to an otherwise stock car, the only way to make it legal is a BIVA... at not only great expense but the test in itself brings many other issues (sharp edges, E marks etc) into question AND would also mean a Q plate. Or to fit Type approved wheels... it is what all those magical TuV approved stamps on your German aftermarket parts are about. KW shocks etc. etc.
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Aug 22, 2012 10:44:12 GMT
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what its actually saying is once a car is modified, it would loose its original type approval, as it no longer conforms to the original manufacturers specification. as you cannot obtain type approval for a M1 vehicle with a production run of less than 75, this would mean that all vehicles modified away from original manufacturers specification would become liable for IVA. what they are proposing is not the 'banning' of modified vehicles, but the inspection of them to prove they are of satisfactory standard. tbh, its been a long time coming. most other countries have had this for years. TUV for example specifies a list of acceptable wheel/tyre sizes you can fit to any particular car. That's how I understand it too. And we've been there as long as I can remember, in Germany. Every little modification has to be approved by the TÜV, either by a car-specific approval test, or the manufacturer of the part you fitted to your car (wheels, lowering springs, air filter, exhausts etc.) made a approval of that part and deliveres a survey with it. With which the TÜV engineer can give it's OK and register it to the car's documents. It's sometimes a ballache, but a LOT is possible if you know your way around the laws and spend a little money on approvals, talk with the engineers etc. I mean - we have 100% legal Minis with Rover 100 front & rear supension, 15" wheels and 200BHP VTEC engines on our roads! It makes a lot of things harder - but TBH I think it's not all bad. I know what's save - others don't and need the TÜV ban-hammer swung over theyr heads. It pi$$es me off sometimes, it cost me money - but all in all I'm in favour of that system.
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Aug 22, 2012 10:48:24 GMT
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I mean - we have 100% legal Minis with Rover 100 front & rear supension, 15" wheels and 200BHP VTEC engines on our roads How does that work? Did a separate company get all that type approved, or was it clever interpretation of the regs?
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Aug 22, 2012 10:50:02 GMT
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I'm not sure this is the right (sic) place to be having this discussion 100% not - no more of this thankyouplease
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Aug 22, 2012 10:52:41 GMT
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...that doesn't mean we can't attempt to stave this off - or pehaps have an exemption for currently-modified vehicles introduced. This sounds something like it. I'd jump up and down for that. Now off to Ace's link to fill in my details. On an aside, just spotted this on another car forum, which someone has linked. 8 replies to it so far, and the majority are: 'I'll never happen' 'They can't do that' 'Eu curse word is f'ing rubbish'. Looks like there's a lot of work to do here.... Sadly i am getting the same sort of thing where i have posted the details..... "It cant possibly happen, it will destroy businesses and **** up the economy even more! also think of the amount of modified cars on the road" "Not a chance this will happen it will ruin so many companies and car modifying brings in tons of revenue for the government in tax.! They will lose out as much as us.!" "Heard it all before, not sure what the scaremongering is about but it usually gets the reactions going" even a moderator on a forum said - "Quick everyone, grab your tinfoil hats! What a load of ****"
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Aug 22, 2012 10:56:48 GMT
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I have a couple of thoughts on this Firstly, if the EU has already got as far as the nice Mr ACE states with this legislation, it will happen. No point in wasting time with emails and letters, it will become law. The Eurocrats in their ivory tower do not even pretend to give two ****s what your (or any other EU citizen's) opinion is. They are an unelected dictatorship, they can do what they like. MEPs don't run the whole tottering massive bureaucracy, they just like to pretend they do Secondly, no way do they have the time, resources or inclination in this country to implement it. Like, they're going to get an itemised construction and use breakdown on every vehicle imported or officially sold in this country in the last 30 years, maybe more and be able to correlate it with what they see on your car at testing time? This includes reports from manufacturers that don't even exist any more, collecting literally billions of part descriptions from unconverted microfiches, old dusty paper patents, etc. Never happen. Never Half the MOT testers in this country have to be told what they're doing with cars that are even slightly unusual already, I've yet to find one that knows the legislation for doing the emissions test on a rotary for example and that was an official UK model car, they've no bloody hope whatsoever of suddenly magicking up a fleet of thousands of experts capable of microscopic analysis of car parts and their origin/authenticity.... ...which leads me on to a third thought. If you don't like it, do what you already do at MOT time and ignore the bloody thing. How many of us have a car that 100% complies with current (slightly lax) legislation? I'm not talking about brake linings on the rivets and bushes crumbling to dust and dangerous ****, I'm talking about those major (not) contributions to road safety such as the correct millimetric spacing of the letters in your number plate and all the other boll***s that fill the testers' manual with a million pointless and ridiculous clauses. I stand to be proved wrong (won't be the first time lol) but I can't see any way they'd be able to actually apply this, especially not retrospectively. And if they do, well, just ignore it. EDITED FOR RUBBISH SPELNILG
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 11:00:27 GMT by luckyseven
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MK2VR6
Posted a lot
Mk2 Golf GTi 90 Spec
Posts: 3,328
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Aug 22, 2012 10:59:22 GMT
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Aug 22, 2012 11:00:52 GMT
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I mean - we have 100% legal Minis with Rover 100 front & rear supension, 15" wheels and 200BHP VTEC engines on our roads How does that work? Did a separate company get all that type approved, or was it clever interpretation of the regs? It's the same as an IVA test, or what I understand is an IVA. You get every paperwork together you can grab, stick heads together with a TÜV engineer and work according to the law, get stuff done, get parts approved/inspected/tested etc. - and if you didn't fabricate something horrendously dangerous, you get an OK. The hardest & most expensive part is the emissions. And that's where the 'clever interpretation' comes into play (weight, gear/tyre ratios play a big role there). Which on the other hand doesn't mean it's not legally approved. Or in other words: it's possible to do something crazy if you involve the authorities, TÜV engineers etc. from the beginning and know the rules. Of course that's all not for free, in fact it can cost a lot of money. It surely puts a damper to crazy builds - but not a stop. And if I look at some builds in the interwebz - I'm actually happy things are like they are and not everyone can get they'r stuff on the road
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Aug 22, 2012 11:02:15 GMT
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This sounds something like it. I'd jump up and down for that. Now off to Ace's link to fill in my details. On an aside, just spotted this on another car forum, which someone has linked. 8 replies to it so far, and the majority are: 'I'll never happen' 'They can't do that' 'Eu curse word is f'ing rubbish'. Looks like there's a lot of work to do here.... Sadly I am getting the same sort of thing where I have posted the details..... "It cant possibly happen, it will destroy businesses and **** up the economy even more! also think of the amount of modified cars on the road" "Not a chance this will happen it will ruin so many companies and car modifying brings in tons of revenue for the government in tax.! They will lose out as much as us.!" "Heard it all before, not sure what the scaremongering is about but it usually gets the reactions going" even a moderator on a forum said - "Quick everyone, grab your tinfoil hats! What a load of ****" The simple answer is even the Uk Government ( let alone EU ) don't know about thr huge modifying market. Most have existed on the 'keep your head down and everything will be fine principle' for years . Bet most haven't even read the article but have a pre-prepared answer for any given question. Everyone is fully entitle dto an oppsite opinion but at least make that opinion based on having read the article.
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Aug 22, 2012 11:06:33 GMT
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I'm not sure this is the right (sic) place to be having this discussion 100% not - no more of this thankyouplease Sorry I apologise, please don't moderate my ass anymore
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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Aug 22, 2012 11:10:04 GMT
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Sadly I am getting the same sort of thing where I have posted the details..... "It cant possibly happen, it will destroy businesses and **** up the economy even more! also think of the amount of modified cars on the road" "Not a chance this will happen it will ruin so many companies and car modifying brings in tons of revenue for the government in tax.! They will lose out as much as us.!" "Heard it all before, not sure what the scaremongering is about but it usually gets the reactions going" even a moderator on a forum said - "Quick everyone, grab your tinfoil hats! What a load of ****" Excatly what I've been getting - although the Imp club has been a little more responsive.
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Aug 22, 2012 11:11:02 GMT
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Ah - cheers DieselWeasel! That makes the TÜV sound not too dissimilar to how I understand the Australian or NZ modifying regs to be.
I have no issues with mods being checked over, but an IVA for an entire vehicle for mods that are well within the DVLA's 8 point regs would to be a right PITA for a pre type approval car....
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 11:12:00 GMT by Paul H
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Aug 22, 2012 11:11:09 GMT
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There is nothing in this Legislation which even remotely suggests that deviation from your car's original Type Approval means it will not pass the test.
The more I read and research this, the more I believe we are massively over-reacting, including myself at first.
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DutyFreeSaviour
Europe
Back For More heartbreak and disappointment.....
Posts: 2,944
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Aug 22, 2012 11:21:49 GMT
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VIP - it all comes down to interpretation fella - the Belgians are seriously curtailed here....... because their testers 'say so'. This is not a good thing for the UK hobby and those amazing garage builds that regularly are brought to notice through t'interwebz. I'm also off to sign on........ I'm actually based in Brussels - so if there's any 'personal' visits I can do then please let me know and I'll get off my ar*e to plead/beg/harass all the lazy ba***rds I see every day around the corner from my home. - Off to check on who my MEP is and see if I can go bug the annoying little twerp. On the other hand, being where I am - this will actually HELP me as I can't get any of my UK cars registered here in Belgium for love nor money. As soon as they see the suspension bushes are not black (new BETTER TUV APPROVED are purple) they won't test the car! I can actually get more done and would be able to push the EU legislation in their faces to get a 'normal' plate - or I'm stuck wit 'O' plate and can't go further than 50KM from home unless to a pre-booked show and NEVER DRIVE AT NIGHT!!!!! OH - be aware - last time I looked, any request for CoC from a manufacturer had an 'admin' charge rating anywhere from €30 - €250!!! So this legislation will definitely line their pockets - and NO you can't get one and just use a copy - you have to ask for each vehicle..... even if you have 4 vehicles the exact same I thought the RRG weekend didn't go well (loooong story) - and now I'm even more depressed Good luck fellas John p.s. - you could block up Brussels a LOT easier and take it to their door (the farmers are always showing up here) - it only takes a couple of roads and the place is fubar'd.
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Back from the dead..... kind of
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ToolsnTrack
Posted a lot
Homebrew Raconteur
Posts: 4,117
Club RR Member Number: 134
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Aug 22, 2012 11:23:16 GMT
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Well, i've signed the ACE mailing form.
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Aug 22, 2012 11:23:17 GMT
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I've confused myself royally trying to get my head round the legislation but I'm more than happy to help out in any way possible. I've registered with ACE and I'd like to get something in the coming issue of Total Vauxhall, Fast Ford, Mini Mag, Classic Ford, Classics Monthly and Fast Car, but I'd like some advice to make sure I'm not doing more harm than good.
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Aug 22, 2012 11:24:38 GMT
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Check my previous answers to Hotwire that show why they will not pass MOT .They MUST meet original Type Approval / CoC . If you want to be pedantic it doesn't say they won't pass but even Dft say they will have to be refered for further testing.
It boils down to one simple question ,rather than arguing amongst ourselves over minutia, is allowing this proposal to go unquestioned and without registering our concerns a good or bad thing?
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