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I think its time we started threatening back,
try using those 3 letters that politicians hate so much, when dealing with your MP
BNP
nothing focuses their minds more than ordinary people telling them that if they do nothing, that the BNP will become more popular!
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Lawsy
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,615
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Writing yet more letters and signing yet more petitions will do nothing,your wasteing your time.The only thing that may help is mass protest to really make our voices heard.Theres enough of us in this scene to cause a massive fuss and really put this in the papers ect. But as dez says I too also fear its too late and its now thinking of the future once this does come in. Drive to london anyone? Anarchy in the UK.. Its on the cards and this coudl be the tipping point.. Mass drive to London, block the streets - curse word off all the big powers, will it help - don't know, but if enough do it.. imagine at least 50% of the UK's modded cars, from whatever background weather its max power style boy racers through muddy 4x4's classic etc - descending on London on the same day - it'd be complete shutdown but i fear, like most would that it still wouldn't do any good
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,055
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A mass protest/blockade would only end up annoying the public and turning them against us I fear. If you asked the majority of the public what a modified car is they'd probably say its those bell ends that keep tearing up our high street at 3 in the morning and would be happy for the legislation to pass. It might be viable if the message doesn't get across but we need to try other measures first I reckon. This. Although we need to get our point across we need to make sure we don't upset Joe public in the process, otherwise its the EU and then everyone else against us. Every car I've ever had I've messed with, ok so I've never done anything amazing like some of the build threads on here but god dammit it! I like messing with cars, if I want to lower my car so I scrape over EVERY speed bump or pot hole (I live in Sheffield, there are more pot holes than people), if I want a nice set of wheels that take me 3 hours to clean, if I want an exhaust that some people think is loud, if I want a car that spits flames out the back (no flamer kit) then why the hell should I be penalised for it by having to pay more money out for more tests!? I take more care of my car than anyone else on my road (about 15 cars), its the oldest and more than likey cheapest car there but I bet it is in better nick than most of the cars half its age! I too will be contacting ACE to see what I can do. Andy
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 7:33:40 GMT by LAndy
Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram
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I am so curse word sick of the curse word eu, so curse word off at our doormat of a government. I could curse word scream!! Has anyone got any good things to put into the letters we need to start writing?!? Because I'm curse word at writing letters, they come out looking and sounding like a 5yr old has written it Is there a pre done letter/series of quotes/facts/figures that we can use to help write these letters, get our point across and be taken seriously? Looks like I might be looking into moving to Canada after all..
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 7:43:41 GMT by cairyhunt
Remember the days when sex was safe and motorsport was dangerous. Vintage bling always attracts pussy.
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I think its time we started threatening back, try using those 3 letters that politicians hate so much, when dealing with your MP BNP Grow up. I'm going to spend the morning writing to everyone of influence I can think of - MPs, MEPs, magazine editors, news editors, the works - and spreading this issue as widely as is possible. ACE - could you give us a steer in simple and realistic terms as to what is achievable from our end? I'm not having a go, and of course we all appreciate your continued efforts to support and perpetuate our hobby (and, for many, livelihood), but your initial post along the lines of 'this is your fault for not listening to me earlier' came across as a little petulant. Unfortunately it's a fact that we're not all as clued up on these issues as we perhaps should be. Help us, please. We need you.
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I have read the EU document and what I see is a definition of historic cars that suggests they must be kept ‘standard’ but if they do, would be exempt from MOT/roadworthiness testing. If they do not, they are subject to a test. However i don’t see anything in there that says the test would check the car’s absolute compliance to its original specification. In addition, the EU document clearly states that roadworthiness testing is the responsibility of the member states and that the proposal does not change the nature of testing, simply extends it to new categories of vehicle (including motorcycles and some tractors) and introduces more standardisation relating to test equipment, skills of testers, and registering of test results.
Remember that compared to much of the EU, the UK’s MOT system is pretty advanced, and I would say it satisfies much of this proposal as it is already. I doubt you could say the same about Greek or Romanian MOT tests.
It seems like ‘preventing modifications’ is purely the DFT’s view/interpretation of the document. So it seems to me that the problem here is at a UK level rather than an EU one, does anyone agree or disagree?
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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I'd suggest a re-reading of the proposal' as it clearly states about ensuring tested vehicle meets it's original CoC or type approval AND that the relevant information WILL be made available to testers.
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 8:19:08 GMT by kapri
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I think its time we started threatening back, try using those 3 letters that politicians hate so much, when dealing with your MP BNP Grow up. I'm going to spend the morning writing to everyone of influence I can think of - MPs, MEPs, magazine editors, news editors, the works - and spreading this issue as widely as is possible. ACE - could you give us a steer in simple and realistic terms as to what is achievable from our end? I'm not having a go, and of course we all appreciate your continued efforts to support and perpetuate our hobby (and, for many, livelihood), but your initial post along the lines of 'this is your fault for not listening to me earlier' came across as a little petulant. Unfortunately it's a fact that we're not all as clued up on these issues as we perhaps should be. Help us, please. We need you. Petulant ,guess so ,been running on very few hours sleep like the rest of the team. If our numbers had swollen earlier the load would have been more spread and earlier shows of strength would /may have prevented this even being considered...who knows? Thsoe who are registering interest will get sent a letter suggesting what to do . Draft letters to Mps and MEPS being prepared today . Money will talk . Spread the word to everybody, contact suppliers and manufacturers , ask if they know about this and threat to them and what they are doing about it?
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Well, this sucks donkey balls!!
I will do everything possible to make noise and oppose this proposal.
Be it letters, e-mails or attending organised direct action, I WILL be there. This must be opposed as strongly as possible.
Remember the rolling road block on the M25 a few years ago over fuel prices? Granted it did't do much, but it did raise awareness and woke the government up a bit to public outrage
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A mass protest/blockade would only end up annoying the public and turning them against us I fear. If you asked the majority of the public what a modified car is they'd probably say "its those bell ends that keep tearing up our high street at 3 in the morning" and would be happy for the legislation to pass. It might be viable if the message doesn't get across but we need to try other measures first I reckon. This
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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I'd suggest a re-reading of the proposal' as it clearly states about ensuring tested vehicle meets it's original CoC or type approval. I’m not trying to sound like an ar$ehole but can you tell me where? I can’t see that.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Thsoe who are registering interest will get sent a letter suggesting what to do . Great stuff, I'll look forward to receiving it. Again, your work is appreciated.
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ec.europa.eu/transport/doc/roadworthiness-package/com%282012%29380.pdfFor the inspection of vehicles and especially for their electronic safety components it is crucial to have access to the technical specifications of each single vehicle. Therefore vehicle manufacturers should not only provide the complete set of data as covered by the certificate of conformity (CoC) but also the access to data necessary for verification of the functionality of safety and environmental related components. The provisions related to access to repair and maintenance information should be applied similarly for this purpose, allowing inspection centres to have access to those information-elements necessary for roadworthiness testing. This is of crucial importance especially in the field of electronic controlled systems and should cover all elements that have been installed by the manufacturer. Before a vehicle is allowed to be put on the market, it has to fulfil all the relevant type or individual approval requirements guaranteeing an optimal level of safety and environmental standards. Every Member State has the obligation to register for the first time any vehicle that got the European type-approval on the basis of the “Certificate of Conformity” issued by the vehicle manufacturer. This registration is the official authorisation for the use on public roads and enforces the different introduction dates of different vehicles' requirements During a vehicle's lifetime it may be subject to re-registration, due to a change of ownership, or a transfer to another Member State for permanent use. Provisions on a vehicle registration procedure should be similarly introduced to ensure that vehicles which constitute an immediate risk to road safety are not used on roads. The goal of roadworthiness testing is to check the functionality of safety components, the environmental performance and the compliance of a vehicle with its approval.
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ec.europa.eu/transport/doc/roadworthiness-package/com%282012%29380.pdfFor the inspection of vehicles and especially for their electronic safety components it is crucial to have access to the technical specifications of each single vehicle. Therefore vehicle manufacturers should not only provide the complete set of data as covered by the certificate of conformity (CoC) but also the access to data necessary for verification of the functionality of safety and environmental related components. The provisions related to access to repair and maintenance information should be applied similarly for this purpose, allowing inspection centres to have access to those information-elements necessary for roadworthiness testing. This is of crucial importance especially in the field of electronic controlled systems and should cover all elements that have been installed by the manufacturer. Before a vehicle is allowed to be put on the market, it has to fulfil all the relevant type or individual approval requirements guaranteeing an optimal level of safety and environmental standards. Every Member State has the obligation to register for the first time any vehicle that got the European type-approval on the basis of the “Certificate of Conformity” issued by the vehicle manufacturer. This registration is the official authorisation for the use on public roads and enforces the different introduction dates of different vehicles' requirements During a vehicle's lifetime it may be subject to re-registration, due to a change of ownership, or a transfer to another Member State for permanent use. Provisions on a vehicle registration procedure should be similarly introduced to ensure that vehicles which constitute an immediate risk to road safety are not used on roads. The goal of roadworthiness testing is to check the functionality of safety components, the environmental performance and the compliance of a vehicle with its approval. So what is this saying in plain words?
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ec.europa.eu/transport/doc/roadworthiness-package/com%282012%29380.pdfFor the inspection of vehicles and especially for their electronic safety components it is crucial to have access to the technical specifications of each single vehicle. Therefore vehicle manufacturers should not only provide the complete set of data as covered by the certificate of conformity (CoC) but also the access to data necessary for verification of the functionality of safety and environmental related components. The provisions related to access to repair and maintenance information should be applied similarly for this purpose, allowing inspection centres to have access to those information-elements necessary for roadworthiness testing. This is of crucial importance especially in the field of electronic controlled systems and should cover all elements that have been installed by the manufacturer. Before a vehicle is allowed to be put on the market, it has to fulfil all the relevant type or individual approval requirements guaranteeing an optimal level of safety and environmental standards. Every Member State has the obligation to register for the first time any vehicle that got the European type-approval on the basis of the “Certificate of Conformity” issued by the vehicle manufacturer. This registration is the official authorisation for the use on public roads and enforces the different introduction dates of different vehicles' requirements During a vehicle's lifetime it may be subject to re-registration, due to a change of ownership, or a transfer to another Member State for permanent use. Provisions on a vehicle registration procedure should be similarly introduced to ensure that vehicles which constitute an immediate risk to road safety are not used on roads. The goal of roadworthiness testing is to check the functionality of safety components, the environmental performance and the compliance of a vehicle with its approval. So what is this saying in plain words? Fundamentally there will a database of conformity of every car built with regards to the standards it was built under; if your car doesn't fit these conformities it will be flagged up as non-conformist and further actions will be taken (shell out loads of £££ to get it to conform or the crusher). I will say, in dealing with 'the authorities', do not use anything other than financial or environmental statements and make sure you can back them up with evidence. Hand-wringing and heart-string pulling will not work, these 'people' are trained to only accept what can be proven on paper. Make sure your case is bulletproof.
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 8:51:23 GMT by marinanut
Rover Metro - The TARDIS - brake problems.....Stored Rover 75 - Barge MGZTT Cdti 160+ - Winter Hack and Audi botherer... MGF - The Golden Shot...Stored Project Minion........ Can you see the theme?
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I think its time we started threatening back, try using those 3 letters that politicians hate so much, when dealing with your MP BNP Grow up. I'm going to spend the morning writing to everyone of influence I can think of - MPs, MEPs, magazine editors, news editors, the works - and spreading this issue as widely as is possible. ACE - could you give us a steer in simple and realistic terms as to what is achievable from our end? I'm not having a go, and of course we all appreciate your continued efforts to support and perpetuate our hobby (and, for many, livelihood), but your initial post along the lines of 'this is your fault for not listening to me earlier' came across as a little petulant. Unfortunately it's a fact that we're not all as clued up on these issues as we perhaps should be. Help us, please. We need you. really? Maybe you should do likewise! or do you think its other than a done deal? or that a few thousand emails will make a difference? I have already let my MP know my thoughts, not only will I not vote for them, but I will actively campaign against them, come election time!
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 8:57:01 GMT by ianboyd
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Grow up. I'm going to spend the morning writing to everyone of influence I can think of - MPs, MEPs, magazine editors, news editors, the works - and spreading this issue as widely as is possible. ACE - could you give us a steer in simple and realistic terms as to what is achievable from our end? I'm not having a go, and of course we all appreciate your continued efforts to support and perpetuate our hobby (and, for many, livelihood), but your initial post along the lines of 'this is your fault for not listening to me earlier' came across as a little petulant. Unfortunately it's a fact that we're not all as clued up on these issues as we perhaps should be. Help us, please. We need you. really? Maybe you should do likewise! or do you think its other than a done deal? or that a few thousand emails will make a difference? Who knows? But it's sure as hell a lot more helpful than a bunch of racists running the country.
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Yeah but involving a disorganised shower of racist w@nkers isn’t going to move the job forwards is it.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Scary stuff. I have many thoughts and still some questions. Firstly, the idea to me of having a database of all manufactured cars and their original spec seems like Mission Impossible itself. How will the Gov't get build specs off manufacturers that went under 30 years ago? Or, is the implication that in the absence of this info, then a car would have to go through a test? I'm confused.....
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