Retros and babies - some questions

Hmm if the toledo is anything like my 1300 which it really ought to be being the same body shell! You will find that there are existing seat belt mounting points. At either end of the rear parcel shelf and 2 in the centre under the seat phob. The third mount needs to be installed as they where designed for 2 point diagonals. Anyway what I'm getting at is there is sufficient space to mount an inertia real on top of the parcel shelf. Make a lower mount through the wheel arch and use the existing centre mount. Then you should have a seat belt that is as effective as a moderns. However do bear in mind that once seat belts are installed they become MOT testable and therefore rust that may not previously have been a fail could well now fall into a prescribed area.

Paul

Exactly what I was thinking, why do I need a rear seat? If I can fix the Isofix direct to the floor, that will be the safest and most compact option.

Thought I'd bump this up rather than starting a new thread to keep all the info together

A few questions regarding sprog seats in old heaps classic cars....

What's the deal with retro fitting ISO mounts - is this a potentially better idea than using seats / travel system base unit that is secured by the seatbelts, assuming it can be done properly, or do the Feds get very upset (e.g. due to lack of type approval)?

Also, can anyone recommend any specific seats / base units that work well with static belts (I believe the length of the belts may be an issue), or alternatively, which ones don't work?

Oh, and the reason for asking - Mrs H is expecting twins at the end of the summer

WHat pOG said is true - I used to fit them and to be honest, I wouldn't take anything other than a Maxi-Cosi. Maybe a Recaro but it's twice the price and not quite as good fitting. Maxi Cosi do seat-belt mounted bases that the seat then clips into, rather like Seths example above, but also without the floor-steady.

FWIW I found in the back of an E46 BMW I'm breaking, torx-bolt mounted isofix loops, so a) that must be legal and b) it means they can be removed and mounted to another floor with the addition of a welded in captive nut. Might make things easier in some situations.

I'm just entering a world of pain with this as I have a 4 year old (5 in April) and a car with no belts at all... Not sure how I'm going to deal with that one. Possibly that one gets to be a non-child car.

As I understand it there is no particular "legal" issue with how you fit ISOmounts or anything else. However... In the even of an accident should any injury befall your little un you will have to deal with your own guilt, your partner's accusation and satisfying the forces of law if there is any suggestion it was not done properly.

I would say a well bolted mount will be as good as a well welded one and better than a badly welded one. Consider the metal where you intend to mount it - you may want to weld in a larger plate as a load spreader so your bolts/welds don't just pull through in the event of a rapid deceleration event.

I note a number of seat makers go to the bother to say "not suitable for lap belts" I used a really nice seat from Britax which worked from age 1 - 4 pretty much which specifically said OK for lap belts.

I'm really not sure what the safety issues are re: child in front or back? Its traditional wisdom that kids should ride in back but is there any actual grounds in safety for this? 70's 80's American stuff has 3 point belts in the front and lap belts in the back so when Isabel got too big for her lap-belt chair and I couldn't find a booster seat thing which said it was OK with lap belts so Isabel rides up front now.

I think seats in older cars are more upright than moderns because sometimes it does seem to be tricky to get a child seat to sit nicely against the car's seat in older vehicles.

Because its almost impossible to get a 4, 5 year old to sit still in the approved safe position in the child booster seat I'm wondering if a booster cushion type thing may not actually be safer. Possibly with the lap belts in the back? I dunno. Does my head in trying to think around these issues.

Problem being that the manufacturers will give you no advice other that what their product was tested against, and if you go on a forum for parenting or general motoring you just get screamed at to buy a modern "safe" car before you kill a bus load of nuns and kittens (and forums for older / modified cars tend to go with the "impale the child on a spike on the front of the car, we never had any of this safety nonsence when I was a kid and I survived OK")

So finding good actual advice on child safety in older cars is hard. (and you and I both need to recognise its a compromise, I think we know that though)

The feller I bought the desoto off had a little un.

He used a ratchet strap... (tbh, it looked awful but was certainly solid)

What AlistairK said regarding ISOfix. But then fitting seatbelts to a car that doesn't have any mounts from the factory is similar in that there's not going to be any stress/crash test data for the chosen position. I managed to get hold of the actual ISO standard (may have changed by now) so that the mounts I made were as close as possible to that. I think there is advantage to a later forward facing seat with ISOfix too, even when the child is restrained using the car's three point belt. In the event of a front end impact the seat has its own restraint and is not effectively crushing the child between it and the belt. I don't think it would be easy to fit ISOfix points into an old estate though, due to the folding of the back seat. I imagine moderns have the ISOfix points attached to the seat itself so that they fold with it.

It is most convenient to get a rear facing seat that clips on to a base as it means not having to adjust the static belts everytime. But it is useful to get one that has the provision for going in a car using a seatbelt without the base, so that it can be used in another family member's car or a taxi or whatever.

If you were to get seats/bases that can be fitted with just a lap belt then you could fit the lap belts additionally as well as the normal rear static three points, so that there is no problem with needing belts of different lengths depending on carrying the children or adults.

If you do need a belt re-webbed to be longer/shorter then I can recommend Quickfit SBS in Stanmore. They did one for us and I have used them several times now.