sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Good find, nice easy fix. Look forward to seeing it at the Gathering. I hope I'm right, could be hot fuel which would be harder to fix, and it doesn't look like a power supply problem to the pump either? Before you get mucky....... tank vent? IS there one? Is it clear? Does the pump make any odd noises? If it's changing to harsh buzz or sounds like it's pumping gravel - that's cavitation. Nick Fuel tank vent [cough cough bleurgh] is clear, no odd noises that I could hear, but the engine is loud and the exhaust tailpipe in the vicinity which masks the problem. Even the pre-start prime sounds normal when hot. I did have cavitation previously when I was running a swirl pot fed from the standard fuel lines in the sender, and the 044 pump that was on there has been re-used so I'm wondering if I badgered it back then and it was also contributing to the fuelling issues I used to have? On a positive now the tank is drained I've found the cause of the non-working fuel gauge, the float had sunk! Luckily I have a spare and that's now in the tank
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Well that's about 140miles done in the P6 now, and I think I've found the source of the only fault so far of the engine feeling like it's cutting out under load after 20 minutes driving. I fitted a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail feed, and it appears the fuel pump is failing when it gets warm, and cannot pump enough fuel to maintain pressure so it leans out under load. After 40 minutes the fuel pressure constantly fluctuates 2-4psi and struggles to maintain 40psi pressure. I don't think the fuel is getting particularly warm, though I can feel the heat from the axle rising up through the floor underneath the tank, but the tank is still relatively cool. In a way this is the preferable fault, as it appears to be a mechanical fault which I can see and touch, and not something buried in the ecu that I don't understand! Now I need to drain the tank, replace the pump with my spare which I'd already bought, and fix the sender so I know how much fuel I've got to play with...
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Old Cars With New Engines ;)sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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My early 70's Rover with early 90's Saab engine editHow could I forget? The rough mid 80's Land Rover behind has a mid 90's Mercedes turbodiesel hiding under the bonnet
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Last Edit: Aug 4, 2018 21:17:15 GMT by sowen
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Bump. don't know how i missed the last update, but sounds wicked with the turbo on there. What setup are the headers on this? A previous photo shows the turbo sitting on a manifold on the LH side, I'm presuming it has a crossover pipe from the other bank? There's a crossover pipe underneath routed so that each bank supplies each scroll in the turbo, probably not the most efficient, but should sound good once it's all up and running . Trying to package it all in is proving the biggest headache, so I'm close to converting the engine to serpentine as that'll give much more space and better positioning of the ancillaries to pack it all in place under the bonnet. I don't know about any of that but i must say that sounds fcuking evil . Just like the Mad Max garage scene. Exactly my thoughts, MadMax 1 garage scene, "Kick it in the guts" Love that movie
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Last Edit: Aug 4, 2018 9:36:39 GMT by sowen
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Excellent work, I had similar issues and found that the sender unit in the tank had a little filter sock over the end, I think the pump was drawing too much and sucking this to collapse... removed that and now just relying on inline filters. Also swapped out to bosch and facet pumps which worked much better than the cheap chinese stuff I had in there before. I remade the entire fuel system to try to avoid this issue returning. From the base of the tank there's two AN8 feeds down to a collector/reservoir which feeds a Bosch 044 pump, and then that runs AN6 hose to the fuel rail. The return line goes into the original fuel sender which has been gutted of the tiny restrictive original two feeds and reserve filter. On paper that should provide plenty of unrestricted fuel to the pump, and I know there's a lot of fuel in the tank even though the gauge says empty! The tank should've been clean when it went back together, although there is no separate fuel filter fitted yet. Nice work on the MOT pass, the car is looking absolutely spot on! Looks great from a distance! Needs to go in the garage and have the front wings resprayed to the same shade as the rest and the whole car flatted down ready for another coat or two of lacquer
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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badass. Very much looking forward to seeing this at RRG. Looking forward to taking it there again! I think the last time was at Prescott? Couldn't resist a little top down photo opportunity, damn my P6 is hot Little more progress accomplished. I needed to do a rough tune on the Megasquirt and as it isn't ready for the road the next best thing was block up the rear wheels, and run it in gear loading the engine up with the brakes. What could possibly go wrong? Success! The fuel map was backed off and smoothed out which has made the engine a lot smoother. I was able to hold 5psi on the brakes, but after a few runs they were merrily smoking away and stunk for days With a week gone by after painting the doors all of the trim has been refitted, and it's looking like a proper car again One last minute addition was a front recovery point. Going by how reliably unreliable the P6 has been on varying fuel issues and how I'm starting out with a completely untested engine, ecu setup and fuel system I'm expecting the worst! In the last photos it may become apparent that the P6 is frighteningly close to the Queen's highway.... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . And this morning made it's way to my local mot station.... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Which was a fail . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I lie it passed I drove it straight to work, it cruised nicely, accelerated nicely, brakes are improving after the long lay up, steering was spot on, it just went too well! Of course something had to break, and there appears to be a fuelling issue under boost leading to a sudden cut in power on hard throttle. I'm thinking it's the fuel pump maybe being weak, or something else causing a loss of fuel pressure as the afr reads lean just before it cuts? Light and mid throttle is fine. I have another fuel pump I can try, and doing that I'd like to fix the fuel gauge sender since that's just reading empty on a near full tank!
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jul 27, 2018 16:23:55 GMT
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jul 21, 2018 20:29:05 GMT
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FORUM VICTORY! You're bringing this to RRG right? Can't wait to see it! That's the plan. Almost every evening and weekend has been dedicated to tinkering and tweaking the P6 over the last few months. Getting a bit tired now but the point of mot-readiness is graspably close now Excellent Really must get around to swapping my ancient bimetallic strip extra air valve (Ex K-Jet GTI) for one of these proper, active ones as the Vitesse needs a bit of help in the idle department with the wilder cam....... especially when we go to the mountains. Nick I used to have one of those bi-metallic extra air valves on an old Rover V8. It worked, and was never trouble like so many people claim they are, so was probably a rare good one? I prefer having proper control of the cold fast idle, be it manually by choke lever or something integrated into the ecu. Been tinkering with a few bits on the P6 today, and got it off of the ramps so all four wheels are on the ground again. Engine still idles nicely and the power steering is finally bled, no notchiness anymore, and not overly light. Now I'm wondering if it'll actually go over the speed humps on some of the local main roads, I don't mind a small scrape, but not sure if it will be completely dragging itself across them now? The new airdam is on with the rubber facing glued in place. Not sure if I should trim half inch off the bottom, but it's level with the arb, sump and exhaust! I do have a stash of original Rover factory spring spacers so may pop them in to lift the front a little bit? It does sit impressively low and still has some suspension travel to go
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jul 21, 2018 11:48:47 GMT
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As per vitesseefi 's suggestion I did some reading on flyback diodes, and had a rummage and soldered a spare one into the loom near the idle control valve The P6 has been left idling and got to temperature, with a stable idle speed, no hunting Even with a hot restart and some revving, it would return back to a steady idle, although sometimes needing a little coaxing on the throttle to stop it stalling and clear it out. If first impressions continue, then that's a massive accomplishment and huge leap forward in getting it ready to tune up and mot
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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If you were closer I'd offer to wrap that air dam on the chin in carbon offcuts we have laying around, that'd look baller. I've stuck some sheet rubber over the top of it already, it's low done and vulnerable and will inevitably get bashed so some rubber will resist and hide most of the lighter scrapes
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jul 20, 2018 21:06:07 GMT
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I'd set the idle valve to warmup only and see if you can get a stable idle without it, usually the "always on" idle control is used with things that drop the revs a fair bit like aircon kicking in etc.. *Edit- car is looking awesome! I did have it on warm-up only, but it was worse at the time I was last trying it. There are surely some other underlying issues that I haven't figured out yet, and putting it on closed loop seemed to help enough for it to run noticeably better. If I don't get any reasonable improvement over the weekend I'll bypass it entirely and try to get the base tuning done without. I've recently bought a noise suppressor aimed at audio installations which I can patch into the power input to rule out electrical noise coming from the alternator?
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jul 20, 2018 18:30:00 GMT
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Interesting stuff, mostly over the top of my head but I can kinda get some of it! I should have a few spare IN4001 diodes that I can splice into the loom and see if it makes any notable difference? What makes it more annoying is how my 'squirted SD1 has the stepper motor and that works as good as the original hotwire installation, yet I'm struggling with a simple on off valve with 2 wires!
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jul 20, 2018 17:21:20 GMT
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This thing is looking as awesome as ever, hope the idle issues are easy to sort Thanks . I'm still struggling to figure the idle issues out, just short of buying another idle control valve and chancing that? It periodically works perfectly, with an acceptably stable afr, but then starts hunting again with the afr wandering. Got a few more things to check and some other settings to try on the ecu. Fuel pressure is stable at about 38psi, until it begins hunting and the pressure rises and falls with the manifold pressure changes on the stock Saab fuel pressure regulator. That car looks very nice! Thanks
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jul 16, 2018 20:54:04 GMT
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Here's how it's running now
Got some more work to do on the idle control since it has a habit of hunting around 1000-1100rpm. If I rev the engine up and let it idle it drops to 700-800rpm, and the idle control valve is chattering away like it's working, then goes quiet after 5-10 seconds and the idle rises again. I don't know if it's a faulty idle valve or I've simply got the configuration wrong on the Megasquirt?
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jul 16, 2018 20:45:48 GMT
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This is looking so so good now, cracking effort. Get the doors done and show us a proper all in shot! The clock is ticking to get it ready and running properly for RRG and it's just too hot to paint recently! See what happens over the next month but I have started smoothing out some of the blemishes.... The power steering pump bracket has been welded up, painted and all reassembled Got the front valance painted and fitted Due to going bumperless I need a rear number plate light. After a lot of thinking I bought a cheap pair of trailer number plate lights, made some spacers and screwed them on. They need a little extra shrouding to stop it looking like I've got reversing lights stuck on! And then a huge hurdle was overcome, getting the little Rover out of death row! The front air dam has been fibreglassed and now screws on so almost done Lights, windscreen wipers and washers all work too The last big job is to get the engine running properly, which means tuning the Megasquirt. I've been fiddling with some settings on and off over the last few weeks so it starts happily from cold, runs upto temperature, restarts when hot, and revs freely. I do however have some issues which I'm struggling with, and that's an erratic TPS signal only with the engine running and the afr wandering. First thing I checked was all of the earths, and they were good, even adding a second engine earth strap. The battery voltage is also slightly erratic by about 0.4 volts so I'm beginning to think it's a power supply issue with some electrical noise getting through. I'm now in the process of moving the EDIS wiring away from the ecu loom, and fitting capacitors wherever suitable to help clean up the electrical feed to the ecu
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jun 23, 2018 20:55:23 GMT
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jun 22, 2018 12:43:48 GMT
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MrSpeedy ; Triumph Vitesse/400e pickup (and little tikes car) freshandminty : Honda Acty Miss curtis : Nissan Figaro sowen : Rover P6 GavinJ : errrm could be either, Morris Minor or MGF adam73bgt : BMW '520i' 3.0 stroker paulwhisker : Mk5 Cortina V6 widebody Low Standards ; Reliant Super turbo plastic yellow peril super pig / mini tractor retrolegends ; AllAgro tat ; V8 Volvo carltonx ; MGB GT carltonx mate Alan ; Morris minor convertable ChasR : Either BMW E46 M3/Mercedes W124 250D dickdasterdley : (Potentially/TBC) : Nissan DR30 Skyline RS 2.0 lukeys : mk2 escort or skoda estelle rob1965 : ford gran torino (starsky and hutch) lowen93 : Land Rover S3 88" tdi Make it 17 taken MrSpeedy
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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information overload requiredsowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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I was running twin SU's in blow through on my P6 a few years back, dead easy to do and worked really well. I used standard HIF44 carb's as I couldn't find genuine turbo spec SU's (they have extra seals fitted) and rebuilt them with a Metro turbo seal kit, floats, needles, springs etc. I had them running upto 10psi before they started to ooze oily deposits out of the dashpot bases where the seals are on the genuine turbo spec carbs. The biggest thing was building a plenum chamber to make the carbs work under pressure. At the time everyone was telling me I had to fit a restrictor plate across the front of the carb, but that's rubbish. I built a plenum chamber with two aftermarket trumpets and the air fed into the side of the box. I fitted a pitot tube in the centre of the plenum intake and used that as the boost reference for the fuel pressure regulator and float chamber breathers. If you're running a single SU then try finding a genuine plenum for one as it'll be much easier than having to make your own. Fuel was a simple efi high pressure pump from the tank with a Metro turbo Malpassi fuel pressure regulator. It gives a rising rate fuel pressure suitable for the SU's working under boost keeping it about 3-4psi above boost pressure so the fuel doesn't get blown back out.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jun 19, 2018 15:10:06 GMT
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How much custom fabrication are you willing to do and are you planning on chopping the chassis to fit stuff or not (not wanting to get into the BIVA discussion now)? I think it'd be cool if you could modify the Jaguar running gear to fit the Range Rover chassis with as little mods as possible, maybe with the front wishbones mounted above and below the main chassis rail? Rear could be tricky unless you can run the driveshafts at a slight angle too?
What about a small body drop so you don't have to hack the chassis about if you can't mount the suspension to get it low enough?
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jun 19, 2018 14:36:44 GMT
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Or blue Not really a fan of the all one colour look with a bulge, and I'm used to it being black in the middle anyway! So with the decision made I've put a first coat of black over the centre of the bonnet. Not sure if I should leave the middle of the bonnet at the front going into the scoop black or keep it blue? Also painted the rear lower valance and got the rear end going back together The rear wings are giving me lots of trouble where I've moved the wheelarch up but are getting close to being ready for a coat of lacquer at last. That'll leave just the bonnet to finish, and to start the lower front valance and doors.
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