teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 2,126
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Feb 17, 2023 19:13:29 GMT
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Not got much energy tonight, it's been a long week and the lack of cake has taken its toll. I do need to get some weld through primer on the wibbly and the chassis so that when I am feeling refreshed they will be ready to weld together. So that was the job tonight. Taped up.   Coppery stuff, nothing to do with the police.  I have ordered some 2K weld through primer to try, at great expense but like the epoxy, that has yet to arrive. It is unmasked and ready for welding back together.   I might get chance later on tomorrow but I have a few other things I have to do before I can go in the tent. Cheers. |
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Last Edit: Feb 17, 2023 19:18:10 GMT by teaboy
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 2,126
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Feb 18, 2023 21:10:50 GMT
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Straight after breakfast at Ten Acres Cafe this morning we had to go to the delightful place that is Gainsborough. This meant that I didn't have chance to go to the creamy bun shop. Why on earth would anyone want to go to Gainsborough, you might ask. I have this annoying (according to the Lovely Doctor) habit that if I want to borrow anything from anyone I tell them, 'I'll see you right when I get my new specs'. Well today is that day so if you lent me a fiver, speak up now. Not that I have many fivers left after spending a small fortune at Specsavers. All this means that it was quite late before I got out and set up in the tent. Now that my wiggly piece is painted and ready it is time to get it back on. First I drilled through the centre of the old spot welds on the chassis leg.  This was so that when I got the floor in place I could drill through from underneath. I used the holes to secure it in place with clecos and then I could clamp the edges with intergrips, like this.  I put a few tacks around the edges then one at a time I could remove a cleco, drill the top skin with a spot weld drill and finally plug weld it down.  Working my way through them.  Then I carefully tacked the perimeter a bit at a time, ensuring that the joint was as level as possible. Because the floor is so thin, when the piece was cut out the remaining floor just sagged down and also, because the wiggly bit has been heavily repaired it was quite time consuming getting everything in line to tack it. Once it was fully tacked, I ground them down so I can go at it with a hammer and dolly to get it as good as I can before fully welding it.  This was as far as I got because by then my back was killing me from being bent over the doorstep leaning into the cab. This was what it looked like with a light underneath.  There is quite a bit left to fill in. You might notice that I have not got any tacks on the right hand edge, this is because I am going to lift another bit of floor up to see what is going on further down the chassis leg. I could murder a creamy bun cake right now but by the time we got back from Gainsborough the shop had sold out. The Doc said there are some French Fancies in the cupboard.  Only two pink ones. I like the yellow ones best. Beggars can't be choosers. Cheers. |
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Last Edit: Feb 18, 2023 21:15:28 GMT by teaboy
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 2,126
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Feb 19, 2023 20:19:44 GMT
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Today The lovely Doctor went over to see her mum. She is moving house and there is going to be a gap between her moving out of the old place and moving in to the new one so she will be staying here, chez Tea for a while. The Doc was going to bring some of her stuff over in preparation. I was given some things to do, also in preparation for the old trout I mean mother-in-law arriving. One of those things was to change some light fittings upstairs. The old ones had been there since electricity was invented and had gone all brittle and horrible and the one above the stairs had detached itself from the ceiling as well. That was the difficult one to get to. I had to improvise.  I still couldn't reach so I managed to make it even more dangerous.  It was still a stretch but I managed to survive.  Lamp shades are the Doctor's department. Once all my things were done and we had unloaded the Doc's car of all the glabber that she has brought over I finally got into the tent. I wanted to get the floor back in today because Big William wants to use the welder next week. As I borrowed it from him I can't really refuse. Anyway, I've mentioned it before how thin the floor is making it difficult to weld.  You only have to look at it and there is a hole burnt through it. This, coupled with the quite large gap I needed to bridge made this probably the most difficult thing I've ever tried to weld.  It also made it impossible for me to do a neat job and I am embarrassed to show the result. Hopefully it will tidy up alright and nobody will ever know. Cheers. |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,882
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Feb 19, 2023 21:33:14 GMT
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I am assuming you are backing it with copper - I am wondering if doing something like the "laywire" technique with TIG by dropping some 1.2 welding wire in the gap would assist with preventing burn back. Not done much thin tin for a long while myself and these really thin tin crumple steel cars look a right PITA to weld.
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Feb 19, 2023 22:15:36 GMT
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Nobody will know what it looked like once you’ve ground it all off. Except for the fact that you’ve put a picture of it on the internet. I know it may sound odd, but I’ve started welding with more power but upped the wire speed and I’m getting less blow through. I’m also welding onto the last weld of you know what I mean.
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 2,126
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Feb 19, 2023 23:50:35 GMT
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I am assuming you are backing it with copper - I am wondering if doing something like the "laywire" technique with TIG by dropping some 1.2 welding wire in the gap would assist with preventing burn back. Not done much thin tin for a long while myself and these really thin tin crumple steel cars look a right PITA to weld. Even with the copper it just vapourises. The 'laywire' thing sounds like a good idea, cheers. You wouldn't enjoy welding these thin 'modern' things DS, it just isn't fun. I know it may sound odd, but I’ve started welding with more power but upped the wire speed and I’m getting less blow through. I’m also welding onto the last weld of you know what I mean. Yes, I always did it like that with my old welding set on my other old bangers and it worked just fine. I've twiddled with all kinds of settings trying to make it easier to weld this tissue paper thick stuff but I have yet to find the right one. It seems to work best if I have the smallest of gaps between the pieces so when I have made patches I did it like that but this was the original piece going back in so I was stuck with a wider gap to fill. I like DS's idea about the welding rod as above, I'm going to try that. Cheers. |
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I feel your pain. The weldathon I endured on the crepe paper thin Italian steel of my Lancia fulvia was painful at times. Spot weld, cool off, Spot weld, blow hole repeat. Even endlessly playing with settings and being fooled into thinking you’ve cracked the davinci code like technique and nailing a clean looking weld it will blow through again. I even welded a cage in just to feel better about the whole ordeal because it made me feel like a welding magician working with 3mm metals! Ah the joy.
As said you’ll be the only one aware of how it looks and I’m sure it will clean up perfectly. Can’t beat a flap disk and coughing up metal particles for the next month! Treat yourself to a fondant fancy and all worries will evaporate. 👍
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,750
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The backing copper trick has been mentioned and answered, so that leaves the question: is this chair still intact? Doesn't look like it was made for a cake junkie to stand on?!  |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,882
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Feb 20, 2023 10:19:02 GMT
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Sounds like steel that thin needs 0.4 / 0.5 wire not 0.6 - just image the trying to push 0.4 down a sleeve !
Also funny about the Fulvia steel - I was watching one of those Pritchard restoration things with a Brown Fulvia and they had called out one of these paintless dent removal guys - He had to resort to hammers and dollies due to the thick heavy steel used on these older cars....
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Feb 20, 2023 13:47:19 GMT
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Brilliant work as usual on the M3, (rumour also has it that this thread features a 911 occasionally too, 😁😁)
As someone who also suffers from blowing holes when welding, definitely me not the welder, I'm really interested in this "lay wire" suggestion,
Can I ask,would it work with mig and does it produce a strong joint ??
Nigel
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BMW E39 525i Sport
BMW E46 320d Sport Touring (now sold on.)
BMW E30 325 Touring (now sold on.)
BMW E30 320 Cabriolet (Project car - currently for sale.)
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Feb 20, 2023 16:54:19 GMT
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Yes I've also seen that video and absolutely blown away that there was a Fulvia out there with actual metal in that area and not newspaper and filler. Although thats unfair and they don't actually tend to rot in that area at all. Definitely paper thin steel from my experience with welding corner to corner on the curse word. Then again I have a series 2 when fiat started to creep in and its quite possible the steel was a heavier gauge on the series 1...
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 2,126
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Feb 21, 2023 21:10:45 GMT
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I feel your pain. The weldathon I endured on the crepe paper thin Italian steel of my Lancia fulvia was painful at times. Spot weld, cool off, Spot weld, blow hole repeat. Even endlessly playing with settings and being fooled into thinking you’ve cracked the davinci code like technique and nailing a clean looking weld it will blow through again. I even welded a cage in just to feel better about the whole ordeal because it made me feel like a welding magician working with 3mm metals! Ah the joy. As said you’ll be the only one aware of how it looks and I’m sure it will clean up perfectly. Can’t beat a flap disk and coughing up metal particles for the next month! Treat yourself to a fondant fancy and all worries will evaporate. 👍 I never really struggled with older cars as they seem to be made of reasonable gauge steel. Never welded a Fulvia though. The backing copper trick has been mentioned and answered, so that leaves the question: is this chair still intact? Doesn't look like it was made for a cake junkie to stand on?! Luckily the chair survived. My daughter, whose chair it is told me that I would be in trouble if I broke it. Sounds like steel that thin needs 0.4 / 0.5 wire not 0.6 - just image the trying to push 0.4 down a sleeve ! Also funny about the Fulvia steel - I was watching one of those Pritchard restoration things with a Brown Fulvia and they had called out one of these paintless dent removal guys - He had to resort to hammers and dollies due to the thick heavy steel used on these older cars.... I've never got on with thin wire for some reason. Brilliant work as usual on the M3, (rumour also has it that this thread features a 911 occasionally too, 😁😁) As someone who also suffers from blowing holes when welding, definitely me not the welder, I'm really interested in this "lay wire" suggestion, Can I ask, would it work with mig and does it produce a strong joint ?? Nigel I don't see why it wouldn't work with mig, we'll find out when I try it. Yes I've also seen that video and absolutely blown away that there was a Fulvia out there with actual metal in that area and not newspaper and filler. Although thats unfair and they don't actually tend to rot in that area at all. Definitely paper thin steel from my experience with welding corner to corner on the curse word. Then again I have a series 2 when fiat started to creep in and its quite possible the steel was a heavier gauge on the series 1... Back in the late 80s a friend of mine was given an S3 Fulvia coupe, he just had to go and collect it. I went with him, the thing just fell apart, I think it was just the roof holding it together. The body went in a skip. Last night I went to considerable effort to disguise the terrible welding.  Nobody would ever know. The other night I whilst I was sleeping I had a hot water bottle failure. I woke up quite moist. The lovely Doctor accused me of wetting the bed which, I suppose, was true but it wasn't in the way that she was insinuating. I'm not in the first flush of youth but I haven't reached that stage in my life, yet. I subsequently discovered that hot water bottles should be discarded after three years of use. I ordered a couple of replacement bottles from Amazon prime because of the next day delivery service so that I would not have to sleep in my donkey jacket the following night. This is what I got.  I really should have read the description and taken note of the dimensions... If anyone needs a hot water bottle for a doll's house, I'm yer man. Back in the tent tonight I checked for the inevitable pin holes and, as I suspected, there were a fair few more than I would normally expect, due to the difficult welding. I marked them up.  But I am unable to do anything about them yet until Big William has finished with the welder. I am going to take up another bit of floor so that I can see what is going on further down the chassis leg so for that I need to remove a bit more of this tar board anti-drumming stuff. The bit forward of that cut line.  I had all kinds of trouble removing the previous lot. I just scraped it with a chisel and it was horse work. I tried freezing it and that didn't really help. This time I decided to give heat a try. I used my hot air gun and went at it.  It brought the majority of it off very easily.  Cleaning up the remainder was still a colossal faff but at least it wasn't as much physical effort as scraping the stuff off cold. Here it is cleaned up and I also tried the seat crossmember in to see if it still touches the floor where it should.  Luckily it still fits ok. Night off tomorrow, it's quiz night. Two of our team are on holiday so we might struggle to beat our previous result of second to last... Cheers. |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,882
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Feb 21, 2023 21:34:25 GMT
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What wire size are you using? not 0.8 surely..
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,975
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Feb 21, 2023 22:07:53 GMT
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I've never got on with thin wire for some reason. If you mean 0.6mm - can't get on with it either I'd much rather use 0.8mm and join the dots rather than try to use 0.6mm and get 5mm of a run and then a big hole  Thinnest steel I've welded was on a proper mini - I couldn't get on with 0.6mm on that either My Portamig is supposed to go down to 15amps so it should be able to cope with 0.6mm so I'm going use a butchered version of PICNIC (PICNIW Problem In Chair Not In Welder) |
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 2,126
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Feb 21, 2023 22:29:46 GMT
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What wire size are you using? not 0.8 surely.. Yes 0.8, and don't call me Shirley. I've never got on with thin wire for some reason. If you mean 0.6mm - can't get on with it either I'd much rather use 0.8mm and join the dots rather than try to use 0.6mm and get 5mm of a run and then a big hole Look, it's not just me, DS! |
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Nice work. I use 0.6 as that’s what I’ve always used, but my brother swears by 0.8 on his old transformer set. We’re all different I suppose
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,882
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Feb 22, 2023 18:02:19 GMT
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Look, it's not just me, DS! If it's what works best for you then stay with it. It all looks pretty good, so if it ain't broke.... |
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 2,126
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Feb 23, 2023 21:54:07 GMT
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Nice work. I use 0.6 as that’s what I’ve always used, but my brother swears by 0.8 on his old transformer set. We’re all different I suppose I tried 0.6 on my old transformer set and it wasn't for me, 0.8 works really well with it. If it's what works best for you then stay with it. It all looks pretty good, so if it ain't broke.... I haven't tried 0.6 on this inverter set that I've borrowed but as it isn't mine and it may have to go back at any time, I'm probably not going to bother. Speaking of welding sets... I got the welder back from big William yesterday but didn't use it last night because of the quiz. Our depleted team was fifth, which was quite disappointing. Anyway, tonight I need to finish off the floor piece. I got the welder set up and switched on and I could hear gas. There was a small split on the gas pipe at the regulator  You might just see the line of the split, below the ear clip. I knew I had some ear clips so cutting it back and re-fixing it would be no problem. Except I could not find the clips. I knew what the box they were in looked like and after quite some time looking I was unable to find the box. This was mildly irritating so I had a cuppa and a think. The second search revealed the answer. Turns out that the 'known box' had been hidden inside an unknown box. The reason for this is also unknown... Here it is, with the chopped off old one.  I couldn't get the pipe back on without warming it up. Luckily I had a cup of tea to hand.  Crimped up the ear clip with a pair of pincers.  We are back in business. Because leaning into the car at that height and angle is really uncomfortable for my back I thought it would be a good idea to lie down and weld it from underneath. It wasn't as uncomfortable on the back and I managed to dodge most of the falling sparks too. There was no escaping the leaning inside to clean it up.  I couldn't find any more pin holes when I put the light under it so I'm calling that done. Cheers. |
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Feb 24, 2023 11:01:38 GMT
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You could have at least tie wrapped the chair to the ladder. I mean, come on man, safety first.
I feel your pain with the thin stuff. The inner wheel tub on the MR2 was awful to do even with a copper backing. In fact I think the copper was more of a hinderance because I had to hand hold it which just meant I had one less hand for the welder. I was only fitted with two hands from the factory you see, so I run out of them quickly. I have concluded that if you want to weld thin stuff you are inevitably going to get good a filling holes where it melted. All the same, that moment after the BZZT when the mask flicks back to clear and you see an 8mm hole instead of a nice weld blob always makes my heart sink.
Keep it up old chap. It means I can get my fill of welding stories without actually doing anything to my car.
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 2,126
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Feb 25, 2023 19:35:50 GMT
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You could have at least tie wrapped the chair to the ladder. I mean, come on man, safety first. I like to live life on the edge, sweetie. I fancied a break from floor work after all the faff with the last bit so I decided to have a look at the other jacking point. The area around it looks like this.  That black plastic box is a junction box for the rear ABS plugs and it needs to come off so I can clean up the area. There are a couple of push in pins which hold it in place. These are almost impossible to pull out from inside the box but, if you happen to have the bottom of the sill cut off, you can push them through from the other side.  You can just about see the two pins in the picture above. This is the box removed with the two pins inside it.  The next step was to clean up and de-rust the area around the back of the sill and the V-brace box.  This is what it looked like after about three and a half hours cleaning with big, little and even middle sized wire wheely things. I was forced to stop for a cream slice and a cup of tea half way through this part because due to operating a grinder above my head for so long, my arms had fallen off.  I also removed the old fuel tank strap bracket from this side.  This is where it came from.  It isn't as bad as the other side was but it will still need a new piece in there. This is the 'grommet' hole just in front of the V-brace box.  I'm ignoring that for now because I'm not doing floor stuff at the moment. By this time my plates were freezing so I stuck some of that rust remover spooge on there and covered it up.  We'll see what it looks like in the morning. I really don't want to have to remove the V-brace box like I had to on the other side, if I can get away with it. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed about that, but only after I have eaten this strawberry tart.  Cheers. |
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