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Jan 15, 2011 12:19:49 GMT
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As Akku said, lets keep the conspiracy theory rants out of this thread. There's a good place for those on other forums so we can enjoy our old cars on here. We have the advantage of being open minded on here which, ultimately, will probably save our part of the hobby while other parts of it die away with all the narrow mindedness. If you don't like it, click the back button... Edited to add: Also interesting to see where the likes of Williams and Porsche go with their flywheel systems. Doing some very smart things at the moment and in a performance environment rather than purely economy. Create an extra 200bhp without the need for a larger heavier, more difficult to package engine...plus you get a BOOST button. Who doesn't want one of those?! Bringing KERS back into F1 this year will also speed up development of such systems Might be a while before we can afford to start putting them in cortinas though :-) Le Mans 24 hrs have new regulations this year allowing hybrids to be in the race. Over the last decade the race has significantly changed, with all the race winners now winning on the fact that they can go further on their fuel and therefore fewer pitstops. I think in 5 years the race will be a very different place indeed, with full electrics giving it a go. They won't be winning, but it'll be a damn good testing ground for new technology, just like Audi and Peugeot did with their high performance diesels
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Jan 15, 2011 12:46:15 GMT
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you could run a really good electric car race if you used a giant dodgem type affair.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Jan 15, 2011 13:51:29 GMT
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That would be so awesome brill
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Jan 15, 2011 14:19:18 GMT
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Until now. BMW are doing a hybrid system in the next generation 1-Series. This is the funny looking little hatch type car, which happens to be RWD. According to these links it'll be hitting the market late 2011 to early 2012: This is good news for us who want to drop economical motors into our cars. I'm sure it won't be too long before the first wreckers come up for sale, so by 2013 we'll probably have quite a few powerplants in circulation. Those Bimmers aren't the lightest of cars, so if they can do 55mpg combined, when stuffed in a light retro shell they should be able to stretch their legs a lot further. Is 55MPG good now? PSA diesels have been doing 55-60mpg combined since the late 80s... To be honest since doing so I've realised how naive I've been for quite a while, I think the first instance I got of this was when my M6 powered E28 got danced on by a new 535D. Some people still equate fuel efficiency with boredom, which just isn't true. My current daily (Alfa below) does over 40mpg, with loads of torque and is more than satisfying on a daily basis. This is so right. The E39 525TDS I'm driving at the minute is getting me 43mpg and I don't hang around. When the turbo is pulling, the rest of my motors look silly, and so does a lot of other older stuff I thought was fast.
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Jan 15, 2011 14:37:38 GMT
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My biggest concern for being able to rob hybrid drive units is the same as with the lastest breed of IC, that so much is interlinked and only accessible by main agents.
From interest what is eth estimated life of batteries in a Prius and how much for a replacement set ?
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Jan 15, 2011 14:45:31 GMT
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Kev, my brother has one. He's been told approx 7 years and 7000.00 USD for a Pious. YMMV, Norm
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Jan 15, 2011 14:48:25 GMT
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7000usd, that would keep me in dailys for a lifetime!!!
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Jan 15, 2011 14:53:59 GMT
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By the way, electric, gas, diesel, solar, wind, etc etc, can't see as how anyone would care one way or the other how somebody else propels their vehicle. In fact, none of these are exactly cutting edge technology as concepts. Electrics were the predominant mode of car power here in the US for a short time 100 years ago. There were something like 50 (!) electric car makers in the USA back then. The market, without any "loading on" by policy incentives to bias decisionmaking, eventually sorted oil as the main driver. It is not a conspiracy rant to simply ask that the government stay out of this multiplicity of modes, except as to level the taxation playing field. Whatever tax is laid onto gas/diesel per BTU, there should be an equalization of tax (up or down) on electric and other modes such that there is no artificial policy-driven bias for or against a particular fuel. That is what will yield the most perfect technologically advanced results. So either don't tax any energy source, or tax them all equally on a per unit of potential BTU basis (the only fair measure - electric don't come in gallon measures!).
**EDIT: You see here, at least, currently electrics get a "free ride". Their owners pay no taxes to the road/bridges maintenance funds, since they draw household current. Whereas, diesel/gas drivers are paying an average of .60/gallon USD for road/bridges maintenance funds. That's a huge artificial bias towards one mode over another, that is NOT technologically driven, but policy-driven. I'm against that. Let the modes compete technologically and Darwin will sort the best results, not some lame political tax committee with their own non-tech agenda.
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2011 15:16:50 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Jan 15, 2011 15:03:33 GMT
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That would be so awesome brill I shall inform Top Gear and await seeing it on TV.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Jan 15, 2011 17:26:14 GMT
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thing i like about straight electric vehicles, if you take care of the battery's by never discharging them below 70% DOD and you can get 100km per charge, that's 500000km before the pack starts to degrade, thats a thundersky lifepo4 figure btw, not sure about leafs, prius also have old ni-mh type battery too.
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Jan 15, 2011 17:56:24 GMT
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Its a bit misleading with batteries like for the Prius. yes the batteries packs do need replacing but a large proportion of it can be recycled.
It is still a big hurdle admittedly - i wonder if the manufacturers will operate a part exchange program?
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Jan 15, 2011 17:57:23 GMT
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thing I like about straight electric vehicles, if you take care of the battery's by never discharging them below 70% DOD and you can get 100km per charge, that's 500000km before the pack starts to degrade, thats a thundersky lifepo4 figure btw, not sure about leafs, prius also have old ni-mh type battery too. Thats pretty impressive!
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Jan 15, 2011 18:02:07 GMT
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Until now. BMW are doing a hybrid system in the next generation 1-Series. This is the funny looking little hatch type car, which happens to be RWD. According to these links it'll be hitting the market late 2011 to early 2012: This is good news for us who want to drop economical motors into our cars. I'm sure it won't be too long before the first wreckers come up for sale, so by 2013 we'll probably have quite a few powerplants in circulation. Those Bimmers aren't the lightest of cars, so if they can do 55mpg combined, when stuffed in a light retro shell they should be able to stretch their legs a lot further. Is 55MPG good now? PSA diesels have been doing 55-60mpg combined since the late 80s... The BMW will be faster and probably heavier as well though. Particulates (bad for lungs) and other emissions will be much lower as well. Not really a straight comparison. Thats' the thing with cars like the Prius, Everyone seems to compare them with a diesel C1, when the Prius is a full size family car with much better performance. Don't particularly like it as a car, but need to make fair comparisons :-)
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Jan 15, 2011 19:24:52 GMT
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You can't easily fit new diesels to old RWD Fords either The reason I posted this thread is because turning round a FWD engine that was only ever designed to be mounted that way round and then not having a gearbox that can bolt upjust makes things even more complicated. It's why the MX5 lump is so useful. It's powerful, already the right way round and comes with a nice 5-speed. Unbolt, plonk into new steed, drive on. I can't see how a unit from the new 1-Series will be any different.
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Jan 15, 2011 20:15:20 GMT
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Real-lie testing? Batteries are pretty indestructible: www.autotrader.com/research/article/35392/taxis-show-hybrid-battery-durability.jspStill don't see the attraction of the hybrid in a retro though - needless complexity when compared with a nice naturally aspirated or lightly turboed petrol for very little gain in the type of use it'd see. (avoid the early DI petrols - plenty of teething troubles as they work out how low a price to build them to) Also avoid any diseasel with crazy injectors and a particulate filter like the plague. Seriously slick technology built down to too low a price these days and barely make it out of the warranty period without problems. (nothing like the old mechanical dieseals of the past)
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-- Marko
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Jan 15, 2011 23:00:19 GMT
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Having run a fleet of electric vehicals over the last 12 odd years (ok OK 4 disabled scooters ) i have to say that using a battery regularly prolongs the life more than occasional use so the lifetiime claims of say a taxi driver should really be taken in context by the average 5 days a week commuter. Mr grandad uses his every day for 4 miles, me dad used his once a week for a mile and even though it was allways on a float chatge from the charge station it needed new batterys every 18 months for the 8 years he had it, me grandads one had it's first new pair last year, they bought em at the same time Same when i was on the Milk, the regular floats went on for years where as the backup floats and low use ones needed changing way more often, now wether that's a charger problem or battery i'm not sure but it's something to keep in mind. Now when is somone on here gonna stuff a washimng machine motor in a classic and fill the bay with batterys and wow ua all ? Would a leccy motor be suited to an auto box? i know they generaly don't run through gearboxes but my thinking is use a less powerfull motor and gear it down with a gearbox
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R.I.P photobucket
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Now when is somone on here gonna stuff a washimng machine motor in a classic and fill the bay with batterys and wow ua all ? Would a leccy motor be suited to an auto box? I know they generaly don't run through gearboxes but my thinking is use a less powerfull motor and gear it down with a gearbox Not likely you will see a washing machine motor being used on a home conversion on here Bortaf... AC systems for EV's are being developed by some manufacturers at the moment but they need far more sophisticated electronics than DC motors need, so puts them beyond the expertise of most hobby builders. TBH I don't see the point of using AC, as batteries are DC and using inverters to convert DC to AC is not 100% efficient so energy will be lost as heat. Also.... is no need for a gear box as DC motors can produce maximum torque from start up. This is why they are good for drag racing. Google 'white zombie' or 'crazy horse' for more about electric drag racing.... is well worth a look for those who haven't, even if you're not into EV's. Using a gearbox (auto or manual) would result in losing more energy to friction in the gearbox so on EV's direct drive is usually preferred. Personally I'd have thought it would make more sense to keep the electrical and IC power units separate Jonny. This way you have easier maintenance access and could even continue to use the car (ICE only) if you needed to remove the electric motor for some reason in the future. I can understand why the manufacturers would prefer this system though.
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Last Edit: Jan 16, 2011 9:53:41 GMT by arrocuda
'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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New BMW's acheive high mpg's in part by a system (as part of the efficent dynamaics package) called energy management. The battery has a sensor on it and the ECU turns systems off that are needed to manage the altnerator load and battery recharging rate. So every system in the car would have the be coded to the ECU. Not possible to retro fit to an older car making it problematic for a moderm engine + engine manageent to be fitted. You would have to buy a very comptement aftermarket system to run a modern engine instead. MS would do it as they all run some sort of variable valve timing.
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Jan 16, 2011 10:12:00 GMT
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bortaf, were all those battery lead? arrocuda, could be here forever arguing about AC vs DC, i just like the the way 3 phase AC power goes up a little from 0rpm and not down like Dc, Right now you can't buy a decent AC system for a car can for a bike tho Gearbox's are whole nother bag of worms, lots depend on your setup. Sticking with a DC here more amps (or big C if you want to be precise) is your torque, more voltage more rpm (speed, horsepower) Ampage is also your range (more better). So if you use all your amps all the time accelerating you won't go very far, Using a gearbox means free torque means better acceleration means less trashing of battery's. A car gearbox has ratio's for an ICE so they don't suit electric motor's, typical ppl only use 1st 3rd and 5th.
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Jan 16, 2011 10:20:44 GMT
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I'm sure you could transplant the drivetrain from a modern hybrid into a retro, it wouldn't be easy given the level of technology in modern cars.
For example, on my Merc W123 when I switch on the interior lamp, the switch completes a circuit and the bulb comes on. On my 2010 Holden, when I press the interior lamp switch it sends a signal to the Body Control Unit, which then sends a signal back to the lamp telling it to come on.
Therefore I suspect doing a transplant and getting everything to work properly would be a nightmare.
Didn't Mercedes build a 190 with a latest generation diesel engine in it (I think there was a thread on here). From memory it needed a computer in the boot to fool the management systems into thinking the ABS, ESP etc were all working, when in fact they weren't hooked up.
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1982 Mercedes 280TE
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